2003 Team Played 7? Why does JB keep saying this?

[Alsacs]

I alway felt that if our bench played more over the years, we would have been a better prepared team when we lost an important piece down the stretch. At this point, we should be looking at our 3rd or 4th National Championship. We won our only championship playing rookies. It time to get them ready.

Dash Riley wasn't worth giving minutes to when Rick Jackson and Arnize Onuaku were better. In 2012, we played 10 guys and lost in Elite 8 had nothing to do with depth. In 1996, John Wallace carried us to the NC game. In 1987, we were a tough baseline jumper from a NC. Depth is irrelevant if your starting 5 is good enough to win games. I can't think of a loss where the bench was why we lost. The ONLY complaint I have ever had with JB is allows teams to play stall ball without forcing them into a faster tempo with a couple of presses to speed up the opponents. Its worth sacrificing a couple of buckets to speed up our opponents some times. However, JB will forget more than I know.

 

[jdubs30]

I alway felt that if our bench played more over the years, we would have been a better prepared team when we lost an important piece down the stretch. At this point, we should be looking at our 3rd or 4th National Championship. We won our only championship playing rookies. It time to get them ready.

You can't have that mindset. You can't sit better players infavor of worse players solely because of what "might" happen IF that better got hurt/suspended; that's how you lose games.

 

[Brian Orange]

I specifically remember Pace being an afterthought late in the season. Almost like Gbinje this year but slightly more PT.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

McNeil and Forth are considered the same person in JB's mind.

McForth.

 

[HoustonCuse]

You know how Boeheim do.

 

[LennX6]

1. Anthony
2. McNamara
3. Duany
4. Warrick
5. Forth
6. Edelin
7. McNeil
8. Pace

Yeah, but maybe he only played Pace more because of Melo's back injury. Pace definitely helped turn around the Oklahoma State game in the 2nd round in Boston. I agree JB played 8 even if he is saying 7.

If I remember correctly BE and Josh Pace's minutes went up at the detriment of Kueth's numbers, (OK BE began on Game #15). Josh was in a regular rotation at the end of the year. Half way thru the year he still got a DNP.

 

[LennX6]

Maybe he subconsciously forgot about Edelin.

He answered based on the first 14 games of the year

 

[LennX6]

I alway felt that if our bench played more over the years, we would have been a better prepared team when we lost an important piece down the stretch. At this point, we should be looking at our 3rd or 4th National Championship. We won our only championship playing rookies. It time to get them ready.

But, help me, when has that lack of depth made us put someone on the floor who cost us a tournament?
OK vs. Butler, but Riley wasn't the cause of that loss.
I remember in the late 80's we got in a road game the refs were lighting us up, so Tony Scott got to play, a rarity at that point. He started going off, and actually became our most reliable O/S shooter. I think that was '89, with Stevie at the "point" and Matt Roe transferred. Michael Edwards was our other "threat" from 3.
My concern with depth is with injuries and wearing down. I think with the 300 time outs a game each team gets along with the TV TO's a coach can use that as "rest" a bench player per se. Plus the replays.
When I was 19 I could play full court all afternoon long. And do it again the next day. And the next. That's what 19-20 yr olds do. So the fatigue I don't believe is a big as you think. The pounding you get from teams like Pitt, that does factor in.
When it comes down to it. its as simple as you have to play your best players as much as you can.

 

[Orangepace]

Josh Pace is the guy for whom the term "7.5 players" was invented

Josh Pace broke the Ok. St. spell that was cast upon SU. Josh Pace is singlehandedly responsible for Orangepace.

 

[OttoMets]

But, help me, when has that lack of depth made us put someone on the floor who cost us a tournament?
OK vs. Butler, but Riley wasn't the cause of that loss.
I remember in the late 80's we got in a road game the refs were lighting us up, so Tony Scott got to play, a rarity at that point. He started going off, and actually became our most reliable O/S shooter. I think that was '89, with Stevie at the "point" and Matt Roe transferred. Michael Edwards was our other "threat" from 3.
My concern with depth is with injuries and wearing down. I think with the 300 time outs a game each team gets along with the TV TO's a coach can use that as "rest" a bench player per se. Plus the replays.
When I was 19 I could play full court all afternoon long. And do it again the next day. And the next. That's what 19-20 yr olds do. So the fatigue I don't believe is a big as you think. The pounding you get from teams like Pitt, that does factor in.
When it comes down to it. its as simple as you have to play your best players as much as you can.

You get a "like" for correctly remembering that Riley didn't hurt us against Butler. Nice.

I always felt that lack of depth hurt us against Kentucky in 1996. I don't know how long Z was out, and I don't know how the score changed, but I got the sense that they killed us around the time he hurt his wrist. David Patrick wasn't the answer, and Z came back in with a lot of tape. Did that affect the final outcome? We'll never know.

 

[PoppyHart]

If we're only crediting Pace as a ".5" player in '03, it's high time we start referring to the frosh Fab, Xmas, and Coleman as ".25" players. Or perhaps we can elevate Pace to ".75" territory and keep the latter at ".5".

 

[pfister1]

yes, we all know that. nobody denies that he was valuable. but the fact remains, he was not a regular rotation player. if you don't play regular minutes, you are not in the rotation.

He played in 32 of 35 games. I would tend to agree if you made the argument that he only play in 1/2 or 2/3 of the games and therefore he wasn't a consistent part of the rotation, but getting into nearly every game makes him a part of the rotation, does it not? even if his part of the rotation was fairly small on some nights.

 

[DoctorBombay]

You get a "like" for correctly remembering that Riley didn't hurt us against Butler. Nice.

I always felt that lack of depth hurt us against Kentucky in 1996. I don't know how long Z was out, and I don't know how the score changed, but I got the sense that they killed us around the time he hurt his wrist. David Patrick wasn't the answer, and Z came back in with a lot of tape. Did that affect the final outcome? We'll never know.

Not necessarily a lack of depth vs UK, more like Otis Hill didn't show up for that NC game.
We were within 3 pts at about the 5(?) minute mark in that game, even with a hobbled Z. If O. Hill had given us 2/3 of his regular production we likely ride Uncle Mo & maybe pull it out. Otis was a good guy, went to HS w/ my buddy's younger brother- but I always thought he was the missing key in that 96 game.

 

[OttoMets]

Not necessarily a lack of depth vs UK, more like Otis Hill didn't show up for that NC game.
We were within 3 pts at about the 5(?) minute mark in that game, even with a hobbled Z. If O. Hill had given us 2/3 of his regular production we likely ride Uncle Mo & maybe pull it out. Otis was a good guy, went to HS w/ my buddy's younger brother- but I always thought he was the missing key in that 96 game.

Good recall. That was something I didn't remember.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Games/19960401Syracuse.html

Our third and fourth scorers (Cipolla and Hill) went 6-17 for 13 points; Otis only got to the line once; Cipolla didn't hit a three.

Yeah, that hurt us.

(Incidentally, this box shows that Z played 39 minutes. Funny - it seemed like an eternity when he was on the bench.)

 

[zhanjuzi]

But, help me, when has that lack of depth made us put someone on the floor who cost us a tournament?
OK vs. Butler, but Riley wasn't the cause of that loss.

I would go as far as to say Riley played quite well against Butler (at least a lot better than Rick Jackson who had the worse game of his life) and I thought should have gotten more minutes (but at the same time I understand JB's loyalty to Rick who got us this far with his outstanding play throughout the year).

 

[IthacaMatt]

yes, we all know that. nobody denies that he was valuable. but the fact remains, he was not a regular rotation player. if you don't play regular minutes, you are not in the rotation.

He played more than 10 minutes a game. I don't know how you can say he wasn't part of the rotation.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Good recall. That was something I didn't remember.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Games/19960401Syracuse.html

Our third and fourth scorers (Cipolla and Hill) went 6-17 for 13 points; Otis only got to the line once; Cipolla didn't hit a three.

Yeah, that hurt us.

(Incidentally, this box shows that Z played 39 minutes. Funny - it seemed like an eternity when he was on the bench.)

That was a defensive decision by Pitino. He made sure that Otis didn't score on dump offs and passes from Wallace. He figured Wallace was going to get his, but if he could neutralize Hill, they would have the advantage inside. He was right.

 

[Orangeyes]

He played more than 10 minutes a game. I don't know how you can say he wasn't part of the rotation.

That's like saying Kueth Duany was a scrub

 

[swish7]

because Pace was not a regular part of the rotation. He would often just get token minutes - in about a third of the games that season, he got fewer than 5 minutes.

Josh Pace is the guy for whom the term "7.5 players" was invented

I thought the .5 was coined during the Marius Janulis year, that year we made it to, I think, the Sweet 16, in New Mexico. I believe there was a 5.5 man rotation that year. I recall that is when we really started whining about this topic.