2019 Kentucky Derby

br801

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Absolutely the stewards can and should have initiated an inquiry and reviewed the race. I truly believe they probably froze up under the bright lights. That said, with regard to awnersing questions which they should have I am sure they were quickly MUZZLED by the powers to be at Chruchill and told what to do. they were simply carrying out orders.
I can't recall stewards in American racing ever addressing the media directly immediately after making a decision. I can only recall them issuing an explanation that is then communicated by the track announcer with supporting video evidence.
 

djcon57

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The rider of the 1 and the rider of the 7, Tyler Gafflione and Louis Saez ride on the same circuit all winter long in Florida and much of the spring. They are in the same jocks room everyday. The 1 wasn't going to win and I am sure Tyler didn't want to be the cause or reason why Saez didn't win the derby. The winner and the other inquiry came from jocks who ride different circuits so probably not the same relationship. Now had the 1 finished 3rd or 4th probably would have seen an objection from Gafflione.

saez has a reputation for being very aggressive out there but he certainly did the best he could correct the horse going wide at the turn. Just kind of sucks to see the winner have to win like this but again truly believe that the right call was made regardless of all the outpouring and carrying on, doesn't matter if he was the best horse or not.

I am not quite sure how much the 20 the winner was actually bothered but it is what it is.
Did you see Mark Casses interviews?

It was pretty clear that’s what it was. No reason to piss off guys on his circuit.
 

upperdeck

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you can make a case the 1 wins. but he was going to need a good stretch drive and lost all chance.. Toddy on the other hand was moving when he got checked.. the 20 was never winning so thats what sucks about the call.

and go watch race 1 today at finger lakes.. the winner gets taken down for much less and that cost me a big exacta. it also cost me my backup exacta as the horse hindered quit running and didnt finish in the top 3 where it clearly would have without the issue..

it happens alot..
 

IthacaBarrel

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Did you see Mark Casses interviews?

It was pretty clear that’s what it was. No reason to piss off guys on his circuit.

Yeah, I wish the 1 had gone up the rail, we could have seen an epic finish if so but it did look like he was going to have a difficult time getting that last 1/8 mile. I remember watching War of Will at the Fairgrounds in a couple preps he is the real deal and could very well win the Preakness. Tacitus has Belmont winner written all over him.
 

IthacaBarrel

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you can make a case the 1 wins. but he was going to need a good stretch drive and lost all chance.. Toddy on the other hand was moving when he got checked.. the 20 was never winning so thats what sucks about the call.

and go watch race 1 today at finger lakes.. the winner gets taken down for much less and that cost me a big exacta. it also cost me my backup exacta as the horse hindered quit running and didnt finish in the top 3 where it clearly would have without the issue..

it happens alot..

It certainly does. Nice day for some finger lakes action.
 

djcon57

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Yeah, I wish the 1 had gone up the rail, we could have seen an epic finish if so but it did look like he was going to have a difficult time getting that last 1/8 mile. I remember watching War of Will at the Fairgrounds in a couple preps he is the real deal and could very well win the Preakness. Tacitus has Belmont winner written all over him.
Yep I put the majority of my money on war of will as well. The last race he lost he just had a bad misstep out of the gate. I think he should win the Preakness without Max running but I do love me some Anothertwistoffate too. Think this is a good race for him.
 

IthacaBarrel

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Yep I put the majority of my money on war of will as well. The last race he lost he just had a bad misstep out of the gate. I think he should win the Preakness without Max running but I do love me some Anothertwistoffate too. Think this is a good race for him.

There's a Maryland bred local horse down there by the name of Alwaysmining that will be held in high regard too. Should be a pretty full field. And if you hold merit to how well the horses from the FL derby ran the Mark Henning trained " bourbon" horse could be live as well. Should be fun. I wouldn't bet Country House with Bees money.

Improbable will run in Preakness as well. Baffert loves the Preakness
 
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IthacaBarrel

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Sounds like what I do when I'm about to leave the office on Friday. "You may not see me Monday the way this is probably going."

Yeah, that's the old how do I get out of this in a hurry excuse. Don't think any of the connections feel like answering questions for two weeks about how it feels to be the Derby champ without actually winning.
 

upperdeck

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going to make for some wide open races.. you have to wonder who comes back for belmont now
 

IthacaBarrel

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going to make for some wide open races.. you have to wonder who comes back for belmont now

Tacitus and I think Henning will run his horse Bourbon War as well who seemed to be well suited and is stabled at Belmont. Tacitus will most likely be the favorite. Peter Pan runs this weekend at the top 2 finishers there will most likely run. The Japanese horse I think has already committed as well.
 

SWC75

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There ought to be a point system combining the finish in the three races and additional prizes based on those systems (maybe additional betting as well). You'd see more top horses in all three races and more intrigue in years when there won't be a triple crown winner.
 

br801

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There ought to be a point system combining the finish in the three races and additional prizes based on those systems (maybe additional betting as well). You'd see more top horses in all three races and more intrigue in years when there won't be a triple crown winner.
They tried this idea in various forms during the 1990s if I recall correctly, and it didn't really have much of an impact on field size and quality.

One year, I believe, a mediocre horse who didn't hit the board in any of the races took down the bonus because he was the only horse that started in each leg. That sort of thing does nothing for the game.

Ultimately, the trainers and owners of these animals need to do what's best for their horses in the long term, and most times that won't be putting them through three grueling races in five weeks, when other opportunities abound throughout the season.
 

IthacaBarrel

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They tried this idea in various forms during the 1990s if I recall correctly, and it didn't really have much of an impact on field size and quality.

One year, I believe, a mediocre horse who didn't hit the board in any of the races took down the bonus because he was the only horse that started in each leg. That sort of thing does nothing for the game.

Ultimately, the trainers and owners of these animals need to do what's best for their horses in the long term, and most times that won't be putting them through three grueling races in five weeks, when other opportunities abound throughout the season.

Yeah, I am sure many are already looking the Haskell or the Jim Dandy/ Travers. It's rare to see a horse run in all 3 anymore unless they are going for the triple crown. 3 races in 5 weeks for horses of this caliber just isn't very common these days, actually almost unheard of actually. Only guy still doing it that I can think of off the top of my head is D Wayne Lucas
 

SWC75

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They tried this idea in various forms during the 1990s if I recall correctly, and it didn't really have much of an impact on field size and quality.

One year, I believe, a mediocre horse who didn't hit the board in any of the races took down the bonus because he was the only horse that started in each leg. That sort of thing does nothing for the game.

Ultimately, the trainers and owners of these animals need to do what's best for their horses in the long term, and most times that won't be putting them through three grueling races in five weeks, when other opportunities abound throughout the season.
Maybe they should stretch out the schedule, have one race a month or something like that. It would keep horse racing in the headlines longer.

Let's look at one year. I randomly picked 1995:

Let's use, just as an example a system of giving one point for 10th, 2 for 9th, etc, up to 10 for 1st with a 10 point bonus to the first place horse because he won the race, (which would make it hard for a non-competitive horse to win just because he ran in all three races). it would have looked like this:

Thunder Gulch 20 + 8 + 20 = 48 points
Timber Country 8 + 20 + 0 = 28 points
Star Standard 0 + 7 + 9 = 16 points
Mecke 6 + 6 + 0 = 12 points
Knockaroon 4 + 0 + 7 = 11 points
Tejano Run 9 + 2 + 0 = 11 points
Citadeed 2 + 0 +8 = 10 points
Oliver's Twist 0 + 9 + 0 = 9 points
Jumron 7 + 0 + 0 = 7 points
Pana Brass 0 + 1 + 6 = 7 points
Eltish 5 + 0 + 0 = 5 points
Off N' Away 0 + 0 + 5 = 5 points
Talkin' Man 0 +5 + 0 = 5 points
Ava's Flag 0 + 0 + 4 = 4 points
Our Gatesby 0 + 4 + 0 = 4 points
Afternoon Deelites 3 + 0 + 0 = 3 points
Composer 0 + 0 + 3 = 3 points
Mystery Storm 0 + 3 + 0 = 3 points
Colonial Secretary 0 + 0 + 2 = 2 points
In Character 1 + 0 = 0 = 1 point
Is Svekatas 0 + 0 + 1 = 1 points

Each horse could split up an award based on the number of points earned. In this case, a great confrontation was prevented when Timber Country developed a high fever before the Belmont, (in which he was favored) and had to withdraw. But there could have been considerable dram even in a non-triple crown year and the other hose owners would have have reason to go after each race, if they were better spaced in the schedule. .

As you can tell, i'm a casual fan at best. I just watch the TC races as a rite of spring,. But speaking as a casual fan, a system like this would create more interest and the success of a sport depends on how many fans it can create.
 

br801

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Tacitus and I think Henning will run his horse Bourbon War as well who seemed to be well suited and is stabled at Belmont. Tacitus will most likely be the favorite. Peter Pan runs this weekend at the top 2 finishers there will most likely run. The Japanese horse I think has already committed as well.
The Japanese horse finished extremely well (last quarter in around 24 seconds) down on the inside, which may not have been the best part of the track after the rains came Saturday. Whether that form translates to a fast track remains to be seen, but that was certainly an eye-catching move.
 

IthacaBarrel

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The Japanese horse finished extremely well (last quarter in around 24 seconds) down on the inside, which may not have been the best part of the track after the rains came Saturday. Whether that form translates to a fast track remains to be seen, but that was certainly an eye-catching move.

for sure probably the biggest surprise of the entire derby.
 

br801

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Maybe they should stretch out the schedule, have one race a month or something like that. It would keep horse racing in the headlines longer.

Let's look at one year. I randomly picked 1995:

Let's use, just as an example a system of giving one point for 10th, 2 for 9th, etc, up to 10 for 1st with a 10 point bonus to the first place horse because he won the race, (which would make it hard for a non-competitive horse to win just because he ran in all three races). it would have looked like this:

Thunder Gulch 20 + 8 + 20 = 48 points
Timber Country 8 + 20 + 0 = 28 points
Star Standard 0 + 7 + 9 = 16 points
Mecke 6 + 6 + 0 = 12 points
Knockaroon 4 + 0 + 7 = 11 points
Tejano Run 9 + 2 + 0 = 11 points
Citadeed 2 + 0 +8 = 10 points
Oliver's Twist 0 + 9 + 0 = 9 points
Jumron 7 + 0 + 0 = 7 points
Pana Brass 0 + 1 + 6 = 7 points
Eltish 5 + 0 + 0 = 5 points
Off N' Away 0 + 0 + 5 = 5 points
Talkin' Man 0 +5 + 0 = 5 points
Ava's Flag 0 + 0 + 4 = 4 points
Our Gatesby 0 + 4 + 0 = 4 points
Afternoon Deelites 3 + 0 + 0 = 3 points
Composer 0 + 0 + 3 = 3 points
Mystery Storm 0 + 3 + 0 = 3 points
Colonial Secretary 0 + 0 + 2 = 2 points
In Character 1 + 0 = 0 = 1 point
Is Svekatas 0 + 0 + 1 = 1 points

Each horse could split up an award based on the number of points earned. In this case, a great confrontation was prevented when Timber Country developed a high fever before the Belmont, (in which he was favored) and had to withdraw. But there could have been considerable dram even in a non-triple crown year and the other hose owners would have have reason to go after each race, if they were better spaced in the schedule. .

As you can tell, i'm a casual fan at best. I just watch the TC races as a rite of spring,. But speaking as a casual fan, a system like this would create more interest and the success of a sport depends on how many fans it can create.
During the long stretch between Triple Crown winners after Affirmed, there was much talk of spacing out the races, but the traditionalist viewpoint always won out. Now that we've had two Triple Crown winners since 2015, I don't anticipate any real movement to alter the schedule.

As for these contrived bonus point systems, I can't imagine they would ever appeal much to the average fan to the point that they would drive viewership or interest in the sport. There are plenty of important races for these horses and others beyond the Triple Crown, which can be (and are) marketed to the general public. Whether the industry does a good job marketing the sport and its human and equine stars is another question entirely.
 

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