2022 USMNT Thread

[Capt. Tuttle]

His methods and rotations are kind of complicated, though. It took him 2 or 3 years to adapt at Man City. A national team coach doesn't get that much time with the players to teach them stuff that's too intricate to pull off.

It was aspirational, not rational.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Sports Illustrated did a Post Mortem on all the contenders, oh and you too United States, about where they need to improve to do better at the next World Cup.

[Mod's, this is just the US section of a much longer premium article; hopefully you see it as fair use ...]

"So, with that in mind, let's take a look at all of the favorites (and the United States men's national team) who have been eliminated and see if there's anything they can do over the next four years to give themselves a slightly better chance at conquering the randomness.

. USA: Can you find more dudes?​

The calls for Gregg Berhalter's job during the World Cup were baffling to me. (OK, I'm not baffled; almost everyone hates their manager because of everything I just wrote.) The USMNT was the youngest team at the World Cup, they made the round of 16, and they went toe-to-toe with both England and the Netherlands.

Herculez Gomez grades Gregg Berhalter for his time in charge of the USMNT and speaks about his future.


The results won't show it, but this was America's best performance at a World Cup since America started qualifying for World Cups again in 1990. Most of that comes down to the massive increase at the top end of the talent pool, but Berhalter deserves plenty of credit, too. The manager's job is to get the talent to play up to its capabilities, and that's what happened in Qatar. This team did not underachieve.

- Carlisle/Borden: The case for, against keeping Berhalter as USMNT coach
- Roundtable: What the US did right, wrong at 2022 World Cup

Of course, you can convince yourself that they did underachieve... if you have a completely unrealistic understanding of how good the team's players are.

Ultimately, here's what happened in Qatar: The US had nine players who were up to the requisite starting level of a team that makes a deep knockout-round run in the World Cup.

In the starting XI, they were missing a second top-level center back next to Tim Ream, and then a third attacker between Christian Pulisic and Timothy Weah.

The bigger problem was the lack of depth. While the midfield was one of the best at the tournament, there was no fourth guy who could come on for Weston McKennie and maintain a similar level of performance.

The same is true at fullback; Antonee Robinson played every minute of the tournament at left-back, while whoever replaced Sergino Dest was, well, a lot worse than Sergino Dest. Up top, Brenden Aaronson was ineffective off the bench, and when Gio Reyna finally got to play against the Netherlands, he too was totally ineffective.

The Reyna story then blew up over the weekend when Berhalter's comments at something called the HOW Institute for Society's Summit on Moral Leadership were made public. About one unnamed, under-performing player, he said, "We were ready to book a plane ticket home, that's how extreme it was." It was quickly revealed that this player was Reyna, and both staff and players were frustrated with his lack of effort in pre-tournament training. Given his, um, subdued performance in the Round of 16, it seems like Reyna wasn't ready to contribute -- for physical or emotional reasons, or both -- in Qatar. That just massively exacerbated the team's lack of depth.

This showed up, I think, in two ways. Firstly, the team faded in almost every second half -- not because Berhalter refused to adjust, but because his good players got tired and the only options to replace them were, to put it simply, much worse at playing soccer. And since there was no depth across the roster, some of the stalwarts like Tyler Adams, Yunus Musah and Robinson were just totally gassed and made killer mental errors against the Netherlands.

We love to act like some brilliant manager can just magically come in, sprinkle some tactics and make all of our players better, but that's just not how soccer works. Ultimately, talent is -- by far -- the most important driver of national team success. If the US wants to be better in 2026, they're gonna need Aaronson to be better and Reyna to be back fit, as well as being fully reintegrated into the program. But they also need at least one other rotation fullback -- Borussia Monchengladbach's Joe Scally, perhaps? -- and at least one other top-level central midfielder -- ??? -- who can spell the starters and still provide quality minutes.

In other words, the team in Qatar went nine deep. Get that up to 13 -- or 15 -- by 2024 and then the ceiling gets way higher and the manager can justifiably be held to a higher standard.

So I wanted to give my thoughts on this topic.

First of all, let's define a deep run in the World Cup. I would define it as making the semis.

Why? I believe that making the semis, for the most part, takes luck of the draw out of the equation. What do I mean by luck of the draw? US in 2002 is a great example. Finished 2nd in their group and got to play Mexico, instead of Italy, in the round of 16. Things happen at World Cups and the result, for the knockout stages, is that you sometimes get really favorable draws (Italy, in 2006, only had to beat Ukraine and Australia to get to the semis - having it that easy is really rare; Italy, in 1982, was drawn with Argentina and Brazil in the group knockout stage with the group winner making the semis - that is definition of tough). In order to make the semis, most of the time you have to beat at least one team who is really tough.

What defines teams that make deep runs? I would say that the two characteristics that define a team that makes a deep run in the World Cup: You either have a World Class goal scorer , a world class play maker, or both. Obviously, it goes without saying that the supporting cast also has to be good enough (Lewandowski, for example, is a world-class goal scorer but his supporting cast is putrid.); other key players need to stay healthy; there needs to be enough depth; squad chemistry needs to be good; coaching needs to be good etc.

There are clear exceptions to the above (Morocco in this World Cup is one) but, if you look back at semifinalists and, especially finalists and winners, I believe those are the characteristics that a team needs to allow it to make it to the very end of the competition.

In that regard, unfortunately, I believe the US still falls woefully short. We clearly do not have someone who can consistently put the ball in the back of the net (like an Mbappe, Kane, Mueller, Villa, Ronaldo, Romario, Maradona, Paolo Rossi, Mario Kempes, Gerd Muller, Pele etc..) and, although we have some very talented players, we do not have a Messi, a Zidane, a Modric or a Pirlo. We do not have that standout talent.

Perhaps playing at home can carry us; perhaps we can find that same magic, as a team, that Morocco did in Qatar; perhaps we get the same luck coming out of the group stage that Italy had in 2006 but, unless one of the two above things changes, the odds are against us, right now, to make my definition of a really deep run in 2026.

Right now, I put us in the same league as Switzerland or Mexico. Good, solid, talented team. Should make it out of group. Advancement beyond that contingent upon whom they play. Unlikely to really make a deep run.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So I wanted to give my thoughts on this topic.

First of all, let's define a deep run in the World Cup. I would define it as making the semis.

Why? I believe that making the semis, for the most part, takes luck of the draw out of the equation. What do I mean by luck of the draw? US in 2002 is a great example. Finished 2nd in their group and got to play Mexico, instead of Italy, in the round of 16. Things happen at World Cups and the result, for the knockout stages, is that you sometimes get really favorable draws (Italy, in 2006, only had to beat Ukraine and Australia to get to the semis - having it that easy is really rare; Italy, in 1982, was drawn with Argentina and Brazil in the group knockout stage with the group winner making the semis - that is definition of tough). In order to make the semis, most of the time you have to beat at least one team who is really tough.

What defines teams that make deep runs? I would say that the two characteristics that define a team that makes a deep run in the World Cup: You either have a World Class goal scorer , a world class play maker, or both. Obviously, it goes without saying that the supporting cast also has to be good enough (Lewandowski, for example, is a world-class goal scorer but his supporting cast is putrid.); other key players need to stay healthy; there needs to be enough depth; squad chemistry needs to be good; coaching needs to be good etc.

There are clear exceptions to the above (Morocco in this World Cup is one) but, if you look back at semifinalists and, especially finalists and winners, I believe those are the characteristics that a team needs to allow it to make it to the very end of the competition.

In that regard, unfortunately, I believe the US still falls woefully short. We clearly do not have someone who can consistently put the ball in the back of the net (like an Mbappe, Kane, Mueller, Villa, Ronaldo, Romario, Maradona, Paolo Rossi, Mario Kempes, Gerd Muller, Pele etc..) and, although we have some very talented players, we do not have a Messi, a Zidane, a Modric or a Pirlo. We do not have that standout talent.

Perhaps playing at home can carry us; perhaps we can find that same magic, as a team, that Morocco did in Qatar; perhaps we get the same luck coming out of the group stage that Italy had in 2006 but, unless one of the two above things changes, the odds are against us, right now, to make my definition of a really deep run in 2026.

Right now, I put us in the same league as Switzerland or Mexico. Good, solid, talented team. Should make it out of group. Advancement beyond that contingent upon whom they play. Unlikely to really make a deep run.

Great post. I agree; we lack a goal scorer, for certain. If we played Pulisic more centrally at the 10, I think he could be the playmaker. I think most champions also have a good defense, but that's kind of expected as the ante to get out of the group stage.

Deep runs require world class guys. Right now, we have some young promising guys who could become world class, but aren't right now. But even at their best, the pieces we have are kind of like Syracuse's 2002 basketball team - all the supporting pieces to make a very good team, but lacking the alpha player(s) who arrived the next year.

The USMNT needs a couple alphas who can score. We've got some great attitude in midfield. We need younger defenders who play in Europe for 2026. I liked what they said, that we have 9 out of about 15 guys that we need to be a top, top team. And you're right, the key ones are the people who are going to be the offensive stars.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Sports Illustrated did a Post Mortem on all the contenders, oh and you too United States, about where they need to improve to do better at the next World Cup.

[Mod's, this is just the US section of a much longer premium article; hopefully you see it as fair use ...]

"So, with that in mind, let's take a look at all of the favorites (and the United States men's national team) who have been eliminated and see if there's anything they can do over the next four years to give themselves a slightly better chance at conquering the randomness.

. USA: Can you find more dudes?​

The calls for Gregg Berhalter's job during the World Cup were baffling to me. (OK, I'm not baffled; almost everyone hates their manager because of everything I just wrote.) The USMNT was the youngest team at the World Cup, they made the round of 16, and they went toe-to-toe with both England and the Netherlands.

Herculez Gomez grades Gregg Berhalter for his time in charge of the USMNT and speaks about his future.


The results won't show it, but this was America's best performance at a World Cup since America started qualifying for World Cups again in 1990. Most of that comes down to the massive increase at the top end of the talent pool, but Berhalter deserves plenty of credit, too. The manager's job is to get the talent to play up to its capabilities, and that's what happened in Qatar. This team did not underachieve.

- Carlisle/Borden: The case for, against keeping Berhalter as USMNT coach
- Roundtable: What the US did right, wrong at 2022 World Cup

Of course, you can convince yourself that they did underachieve... if you have a completely unrealistic understanding of how good the team's players are.

Ultimately, here's what happened in Qatar: The US had nine players who were up to the requisite starting level of a team that makes a deep knockout-round run in the World Cup.

In the starting XI, they were missing a second top-level center back next to Tim Ream, and then a third attacker between Christian Pulisic and Timothy Weah.

The bigger problem was the lack of depth. While the midfield was one of the best at the tournament, there was no fourth guy who could come on for Weston McKennie and maintain a similar level of performance.

The same is true at fullback; Antonee Robinson played every minute of the tournament at left-back, while whoever replaced Sergino Dest was, well, a lot worse than Sergino Dest. Up top, Brenden Aaronson was ineffective off the bench, and when Gio Reyna finally got to play against the Netherlands, he too was totally ineffective.

The Reyna story then blew up over the weekend when Berhalter's comments at something called the HOW Institute for Society's Summit on Moral Leadership were made public. About one unnamed, under-performing player, he said, "We were ready to book a plane ticket home, that's how extreme it was." It was quickly revealed that this player was Reyna, and both staff and players were frustrated with his lack of effort in pre-tournament training. Given his, um, subdued performance in the Round of 16, it seems like Reyna wasn't ready to contribute -- for physical or emotional reasons, or both -- in Qatar. That just massively exacerbated the team's lack of depth.

This showed up, I think, in two ways. Firstly, the team faded in almost every second half -- not because Berhalter refused to adjust, but because his good players got tired and the only options to replace them were, to put it simply, much worse at playing soccer. And since there was no depth across the roster, some of the stalwarts like Tyler Adams, Yunus Musah and Robinson were just totally gassed and made killer mental errors against the Netherlands.

We love to act like some brilliant manager can just magically come in, sprinkle some tactics and make all of our players better, but that's just not how soccer works. Ultimately, talent is -- by far -- the most important driver of national team success. If the US wants to be better in 2026, they're gonna need Aaronson to be better and Reyna to be back fit, as well as being fully reintegrated into the program. But they also need at least one other rotation fullback -- Borussia Monchengladbach's Joe Scally, perhaps? -- and at least one other top-level central midfielder -- ??? -- who can spell the starters and still provide quality minutes.

In other words, the team in Qatar went nine deep. Get that up to 13 -- or 15 -- by 2024 and then the ceiling gets way higher and the manager can justifiably be held to a higher standard.

I agree 100% that lack of depth was an issue.

I do think you need more than 13-15, especially since there will be an extra game starting in 2026.

Realistically, I think you need World Cup-caliber backups at every position, 1 OB, 1 CB, 1 attacking mid, 1 workhorse\D mid, 1 striker. 1 winger.

That is the minimum...with injuries\illness, suspensions, I think, to be safe, you would want a few more. That would effectively get you to your two-deep.

here I have more hope than I do for finding a world-class striker or playmaker in time for 2026.

We turned over almost our entire roster from the 2017 T&T debacle. Only Pulisic, Acosta, Yedlin and Ream were on that 2017 roster and the upgrade has been exponential. I am hopeful that the 2017-2022 pipeline is not a one-off and we see a similar pattern over the next four years. if that occurs, we should have plenty of talent to fill out our two-deep by 2026.

 

[Orangezoo]

I agree 100% that lack of depth was an issue.

I do think you need more than 13-15, especially since there will be an extra game starting in 2026.

Realistically, I think you need World Cup-caliber backups at every position, 1 OB, 1 CB, 1 attacking mid, 1 workhorse\D mid, 1 striker. 1 winger.

That is the minimum...with injuries\illness, suspensions, I think, to be safe, you would want a few more. That would effectively get you to your two-deep.

here I have more hope than I do for finding a world-class striker or playmaker in time for 2026.

We turned over almost our entire roster from the 2017 T&T debacle. Only Pulisic, Acosta, Yedlin and Ream were on that 2017 roster and the upgrade has been exponential. I am hopeful that the 2017-2022 pipeline is not a one-off and we see a similar pattern over the next four years. if that occurs, we should have plenty of talent to fill out our two-deep by 2026.

It's a shame we didn't get the chance to see what this team looked like with Miles Robinson and a motivated Gio Reyna. The whole Reyna incident is extremely disappointing and has to be weighing on his father some too given his involvement in the USMNT program and how polarizing whatever is going on there things are.

I think there is something there in terms a budding defensive stalwart in Carter - Vickers after his solid showing as well to add true depth by the time 2026 comes around. Albeit we are losing a little depth with guys aging too but it's minimal.

I would think with the 20 or so prospects that are on deck we see at least a few if not more make the developmental jump with their clubs to add on to the strong young core.

Names like Busio, the younger Aaronson, Slonina, Che, Dettoni, Paredes, Gomez?, Baker-Whiting, Booth, Clark, and then maybe one of the striker prospects emerges or say a Wright/Ferreira/Dike/Pepi breakout. I think there is enough there overall where some depth should develop.

One that really intrigues me is Kristian Fletcher. He hasn't made waves yet or proven himself on a bigger stage but he is direct, shows ability to create space in a crowd and is physically mature for his age not getting pushed off his spot much.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Tweeted during the World Cup final.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Tweeted during the World Cup final.

I don’t know about that… we dominated England this go around and they deserved to beat France. We are missing the true geniuses, players like Messi and Mbappe and also DiMaria and Greizman for that matter, who can create something out of nothing. While I do agree no one currently on our radar is going to get to that level, I don’t think it’s much longer before we play consistent, quality soccer. We need center backs that can pass and a true number 10, should be Reyna, and a true number 9, our biggest area of weakness. And then as forza has pointed out we need more depth to raise our floor

In the past we have dominated Spain at their peak and win 2-0 and we should have

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's a shame we didn't get the chance to see what this team looked like with Miles Robinson and a motivated Gio Reyna. The whole Reyna incident is extremely disappointing and has to be weighing on his father some too given his involvement in the USMNT program and how polarizing whatever is going on there things are.

I think there is something there in terms a budding defensive stalwart in Carter - Vickers after his solid showing as well to add true depth by the time 2026 comes around. Albeit we are losing a little depth with guys aging too but it's minimal.

I would think with the 20 or so prospects that are on deck we see at least a few if not more make the developmental jump with their clubs to add on to the strong young core.

Names like Busio, the younger Aaronson, Slonina, Che, Dettoni, Paredes, Gomez?, Baker-Whiting, Booth, Clark, and then maybe one of the striker prospects emerges or say a Wright/Ferreira/Dike/Pepi breakout. I think there is enough there overall where some depth should develop.

One that really intrigues me is Kristian Fletcher. He hasn't made waves yet or proven himself on a bigger stage but he is direct, shows ability to create space in a crowd and is physically mature for his age not getting pushed off his spot much.

Reyna has been hurt so long that's it's hard to count on him going forward. He seems like he's childish and a bit privileged, but maybe he'll grow out of it.

When you say that we lack a player like Griezmann or Angel DiMaria, personally I don't think Pulisic is that far off of that level, considering he's still only 23, has an injury history and doesn't get a consistent run in his club team.

If you look at what he's accomplished against all of that, he has still scored several big goals or made that killer pass in several big games, at the World Cup, in the Champions League and in Cup ties in England.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Reyna has been hurt so long that's it's hard to count on him going forward. He seems like he's childish and a bit privileged, but maybe he'll grow out of it.

When you say that we lack a player like Griezmann or Angel DiMaria, personally I don't think Pulisic is that far off of that level, considering he's still only 23, has an injury history and doesn't get a consistent run in his club team.

If you look at what he's accomplished against all of that, he has still scored several big goals or made that killer pass in several big games, at the World Cup, in the Champions League and in Cup ties in England.

I love Pulisic. In early 2017, I stated in one of these threads that Pulisic was the most talented US player I had ever seen...

Having said that, as good as he is, I just don't see him as ever being that difference maker at the level of a Messi or a Zidane. Not a knock on Pulisic, that is truly rarified air we are talking about.

I do think he can be as good, and impactful, as a Griezmann or a DiMaria but those two don't carry a team.

 

[upperdeck]

Pulisics biggest issue is we have no one else that requires paying attention to at a high enough level to give him some space. he isnt quite elite enough to pull off the Messi like plays but when he does make moves teams just swarm him anyway cause who is he gonna give the ball too anyhow

 

[cusefan88]

Culture matters. Only a few countries have won and they all have intense, high-pressure, and passionate soccer culture.

If you see more Americans watching regularly, becoming more passionate and knowledgeable, you will slowly see a better USMNT.

I watched USA-Ned with a few casual fans and they all saw the gap in touch, quality, and tactics.

 

[Orangezoo]

Pulisics biggest issue is we have no one else that requires paying attention to at a high enough level to give him some space. he isnt quite elite enough to pull off the Messi like plays but when he does make moves teams just swarm him anyway cause who is he gonna give the ball too anyhow

I would argue Musah and McKennie require a good bit of attention as well. Which as they enter their prime will hopefully become the case even more so.

That said the lack of a true goal scorer and a good target in the box allows defenses to continue to neutralize those 3 in the final third and then we are left with an often fizzled attack.

 

[Orangezoo]

Culture matters. Only a few countries have won and they all have intense, high-pressure, and passionate soccer culture.

If you see more Americans watching regularly, becoming more passionate and knowledgeable, you will slowly see a better USMNT.

I watched USA-Ned with a few casual fans and they all saw the gap in touch, quality, and tactics.

It's basically the reverse of basketball for other countries and us except the world is catching up faster in hoops than we are in soccer.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Culture matters. Only a few countries have won and they all have intense, high-pressure, and passionate soccer culture.

If you see more Americans watching regularly, becoming more passionate and knowledgeable, you will slowly see a better USMNT.

I watched USA-Ned with a few casual fans and they all saw the gap in touch, quality, and tactics.

Culture matters...Picture the USMNT with half-a-dozen guys on the team with the speed and athleticism of NFL wide receivers or Dbacks and the touch of Pulisic...think we could compete?

More importantly, more eyeballs means more $ which means more dollars for better coaches, facilities, academies, scouting networks etc...we are still behind in all those areas which is why our best players do have to go abroad to get to higher levels...

 

[cusefan88]

Culture matters...Picture the USMNT with half-a-dozen guys on the team with the speed and athleticism of NFL wide receivers or Dbacks and the touch of Pulisic...think we could compete?

More importantly, more eyeballs means more $ which means more dollars for better coaches, facilities, academies, scouting networks etc...we are still behind in all those areas which is why our best players do have to go abroad to get to higher levels...

I don't really believe in the "best athlete" stuff. The US needs to improve skill development. The team in Qatar was plenty athletic. They didn't have the close control, first touch, and field scanning.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I don't really believe in the "best athlete" stuff. The US needs to improve skill development. The team in Qatar was plenty athletic. They didn't have the close control, first touch, and field scanning.

Yeah, you are right. Mbappe's speed is not a difference maker...

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't really believe in the "best athlete" stuff. The US needs to improve skill development. The team in Qatar was plenty athletic. They didn't have the close control, first touch, and field scanning.

I disagree with that. US midfielders and attackers mostly have pretty good touch and close control - Pulisic, Dest, McKennie, Musah, Reyna, Weah - they all have those skills. They are playing in Top 5 leagues for a reason. They have skills.

Some of the players, though, they lacked touch too often, like Robinson at left back. His earlier games he did pretty well, but as he tired, his touch got worse.

Same thing with several of our guys in the Netherlands game, but that's because they were gassed. We hadn't been able to substitute any of key guys to give them rest.

When that happens, you have mental letdowns on defense (which we saw), and that's when your touch gets away from you, as we also saw.

 

[cusefan88]

Yeah, you are right. Mbappe's speed is not a difference maker...

Yes of course i hope the US continues to get better raw athletes but it won't be as impactful unless the technical and tactical side improve in tandem. That's my only point which I didn't articulate better.

Antonee Robinson for example is a fantastic player and athlete but how many times did he overrun the ball or have a heavy touch. That's all.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Yes of course i hope the US continues to get better raw athletes but it won't be as impactful unless the technical and tactical side improve in tandem. That's my only point which I didn't articulate better.

Antonee Robinson for example is a fantastic player and athlete but how many times did he overrun the ball or have a heavy touch. That's all.

Ugh… The fact that Robinson is the unquestioned left back for the national team says it all. Great athlete, great engine and great heart. But only the good lord knows where the ball is going after it leaves his foot. If we are to progress as a “football” nation we need to move past the Robinson’s of the world. He’s basically a modern version of Frankie Hejduk..

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Yes of course i hope the US continues to get better raw athletes but it won't be as impactful unless the technical and tactical side improve in tandem. That's my only point which I didn't articulate better.

Antonee Robinson for example is a fantastic player and athlete but how many times did he overrun the ball or have a heavy touch. That's all.

That I agree with. Cannot just be great athletes. have to be great soccer players who are also great athletes.

 

[Orangezoo]

Ugh… The fact that Robinson is the unquestioned left back for the national team says it all. Great athlete, great engine and great heart. But only the good lord knows where the ball is going after it leaves his foot. If we are to progress as a “football” nation we need to move past the Robinson’s of the world. He’s basically a modern version of Frankie Hejduk..

I think this a pretty big chunk of hyperbole. If you rewatch many of Robinsons runs this WC you will find he has almost no one making a good run into the box. His touch betrays him yes but not nearly to the extreme you indicate here. He gets a good touch on many field switch crosses and brings it down quickly. The bigger issue is the lack of a true 9 to drag defenders- instead things become a jumbled mess in the final third where his touch in small spaces is amplified.

 

[jordville]

Sounds like he was being blackmailed...

 

[jordville]

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Let me get this straight . When he was 18, he got in a heated argument with his girlfriend , kicked her leg. There was no mention of injury. There has been no record of ANY of this type of behavior since then. How do I say this without sounding like I’m defending domestic violence (which I’m not)? But big fat yaawn from me

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Well this is a mess. If true then Reyna might not even make the team going forward (if Berhalter remains).