2023-24 NBA Season

[Cusefan0307]

I am really starting to dislike the Pacers.

 

[Red Holzman]

Talk of Knicks being out of gas appears premature LOL. What an impressive team performance tonight, led by Brunson.
Burks steps up again.
Pacers are the team that appears out of gas tonight.
So impressive when you consider all the Knicks players that are out

 

[Cusefan0307]

Talk of Knicks being out of gas appears premature LOL. What an impressive team performance tonight, led by Brunson.
Burks steps up again.
Pacers are the team that appears out of gas tonight.
So impressive when you consider all the Knicks players that are out

If the Knicks can get this Burks and OG back against Boston if they get there you never know….

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Who is the third guy giving commentary in the Denver /wolves games ? I know Reggie and Harlon. Who is the 3rd guy? He adds NOTHING . He is beyond captain obvious . He makes Captain Obvious look like Sherlock Holmes

 

[cuseattle]

Who is the third guy giving commentary in the Denver /wolves games ? I know Reggie and Harlon. Who is the 3rd guy? He adds NOTHING . He is beyond captain obvious . He makes Captain Obvious look like Sherlock Holmes

Seattle's own Jamal Crawford

 

[jncuse]

If Denver repeats, there is real discussion for Jokic ultimately entering the top 10 of all time by the end of his career.

 

[Red Holzman]

If Denver repeats, there is real discussion for Jokic ultimately entering the top 10 of all time by the end of his career.

+1
What center in NBA history has/had Joker's talent?
13 assists last night -he's a playmaker/guard at center that takes over and can do it all.
Wemby may be great -but not comparable total package and Joker has outplayed him.

 

[jncuse]

+1
What center in NBA history has/had Joker's talent?
13 assists last night -he's a playmaker/guard at center that takes over and can do it all.
Wemby may be great -but not comparable total package and Joker has outplayed him.

I don't think have had his overall game. Although its hard to say given how others would have developed and played in this very different era. I think Jokic could have dominated in any era offensively.

Wemby could well eventually get in the discussion -- he will not be the same complete package offensively, but defensively he will be a few levels above Jokic. He needs some MVP's, a few titles (based on my "if" on Jokic this year), which all seem very plausible for Wemby.

Most importantly he will need good health which is always the concern with those with his size and frame.

 

[Knicks411]

+1
What center in NBA history has/had Joker's talent?
13 assists last night -he's a playmaker/guard at center that takes over and can do it all.
Wemby may be great -but not comparable total package and Joker has outplayed him.

I think it speaks to the talent level that Wemby possesses that I almost think a close to median case outcome for him is to be a better player than Jokic. Which is insane to say about any 20 year old

 

[Melancer46]

If Denver repeats, there is real discussion for Jokic ultimately entering the top 10 of all time by the end of his career.

I think there’s a chance even if he doesn’t repeat. The top 10 resumes are pretty insane so he has a lot of work to do, but 3 MVPs already at this point in his career gives him a shot. Much like when Giannis won the title back in 2021, he had a shot (but I would say is extremely unlikely at this point).

 

[Newhouser]

for me Joker is a unicorn in NBA history. MJ has his imitators, LBJ has physically dominant semi-clones, Curry certainly has company in the long distance shooting world.

I cannot think of a comp of Joker. Basically a below the rim center who also serves as the fulcrum for his team's offense, who is unstoppable in the half court, can shoot it, rebounds, and may be one of the best passers in the history of the league. I have no historical comp for his style of play let alone combining is style with his dominance.

 

[shandeezy7]

I’m assuming the Knicks won’t be putting much out there ahead of the next game, but I’d be shocked if OG plays another game this series. So what lineup do you run out there to start? Brunson, Divincenzo, Hart, Achiuwa and Hartenstein? I assume that means you’ll need Simms in the backup C role if Achiuwa is going to get PF mins? I suppose you could also go small with Brunson, McBride, Divincenzo, Hart and Hartenstein.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it's about as small of a sample size as you can get, but it looks like the Knicks should've gone with my smaller starting lineup suggestion in game 4

 

[Knicks411]

for me Joker is a unicorn in NBA history. MJ has his imitators, LBJ has physically dominant semi-clones, Curry certainly has company in the long distance shooting world.

I cannot think of a comp of Joker. Basically a below the rim center who also serves as the fulcrum for his team's offense, who is unstoppable in the half court, can shoot it, rebounds, and may be one of the best passers in the history of the league. I have no historical comp for his style of play let alone combining is style with his dominance.

I think as far as player types the comps for Joker are like Bill Walton and Arvydas Sabonis? Obviously when they played the shooting wasnt expected out of big guys, and obviously Joker is way better than both but just in terms of style

 

[Melancer46]

for me Joker is a unicorn in NBA history. MJ has his imitators, LBJ has physically dominant semi-clones, Curry certainly has company in the long distance shooting world.

I cannot think of a comp of Joker. Basically a below the rim center who also serves as the fulcrum for his team's offense, who is unstoppable in the half court, can shoot it, rebounds, and may be one of the best passers in the history of the league. I have no historical comp for his style of play let alone combining is style with his dominance.

I don't really think there are comparable guys for LBJ or Curry either to be honest. A lot of kids want to be Curry these days but I don't think anyone has been able to really approximate him at all. LeBron is simply a freak of nature both physically and skill-wise. MJ certainly has a lot of imitators and while I think Kobe is overrated historically, he was close enough for that to be correct.

 

[Melancer46]

I think as far as player types the comps for Joker are like Bill Walton and Arvydas Sabonis? Obviously when they played the shooting wasnt expected out of big guys, and obviously Joker is way better than both but just in terms of style

I would also say Walton was probably closer to Jokic than any LeBron or Curry imitator but his body obviously did not hold up well at all.

 

[Newhouser]

I don't really think there are comparable guys for LBJ or Curry either to be honest. A lot of kids want to be Curry these days but I don't think anyone has been able to really approximate him at all. LeBron is simply a freak of nature both physically and skill-wise. MJ certainly has a lot of imitators and while I think Kobe is overrated historically, he was close enough for that to be correct.

I just look at it different - there have always been guys who could shoot the ball. Curry has obviously taken it to a modern level and there are always athletic freaks (wilt). the only other guy for me - and its all subjective - who fits the no real comparisons is Kareem.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

+1
What center in NBA history has/had Joker's talent?
13 assists last night -he's a playmaker/guard at center that takes over and can do it all.
Wemby may be great -but not comparable total package and Joker has outplayed him.

Wilt, absent dribbling. Wilt led league in scoring, rebounding, and assists, in various years. The guy could do anything expected of a center back then. Outside shooting might be suspect.

 

[Red Holzman]

Wilt, absent dribbling. Wilt led league in scoring, rebounding, and assists, in various years. The guy could do anything expected of a center back then. Outside shooting might be suspect.

Wilt was great, but IMO Jokic is the more complete total package.
Wilt averaged 4.4 assists to open teammates when double/triple teamed -Jokic averages 6.9 assists as a spectacular play-maker.
No 3 point line in Wilt's day, but doubt he'd have hit many. Jokic hits 3's.
Dribbling, as you noted -no debate.
And foul shooting no debate LOL!
In 14 seasons, Wilt was MVP 4X, and despite his greatness won only 2 championships.
Jokic already has 3 MVPs. He could add a 2nd championship in a few wks.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

+1
What center in NBA history has/had Joker's talent?
13 assists last night -he's a playmaker/guard at center that takes over and can do it all.
Wemby may be great -but not comparable total package and Joker has outplayed him.

TBD with Wemby. He's 20 years old and at the end of the last year was probably the best defensive big in the game. The offense is only going to get better. Not saying it's a given but I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Current players that already are, or are close, or will be top 25 all time players...

LeBron (lock- top 5)
Curry (lock- top 15)
Durant (lock- top 15ish)
Jokic (lock- top 20)
Giannis (probably a lock- top 25)
Kawhi (close, probably top 35)
Luka (ways to go, but I think he eventually wins 2+ MVPs/titles)

Then the next is probably the tier of... Chris Paul, Westbrook, Harden, AD... closer to top 50 than 25. All with incredible highs. I think all are above Lillard pretty easily.

In terms of players currently <3 years into their careers, Wemby is most likely to be top 25. I can already say that confidently. Hoping injuries do not derail his career.

 

[Red Holzman]

And-
Jokic is a very funny guy, which I appreciate purely from entertainment perspective LOL. EZ to root for.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Current players that already are, or are close, or will be top 25 all time players...

LeBron (lock- top 5)
Curry (lock- top 15)
Durant (lock- top 15ish)
Jokic (lock- top 20)
Giannis (probably a lock- top 25)
Kawhi (close, probably top 35)
Luka (ways to go, but I think he eventually wins 2+ MVPs/titles)

Then the next is probably the tier of... Chris Paul, Westbrook, Harden, AD... closer to top 50 than 25. All with incredible highs. I think all are above Lillard pretty easily.

In terms of players currently <3 years into their careers, Wemby is most likely to be top 25. I can already say that confidently. Hoping injuries do not derail his career.

I think that next tier is going to get dinged a lot. They just don't have the winning legacies.

 

[Melancer46]

Wilt was great, but IMO Jokic is the more complete total package.
Wilt averaged 4.4 assists to open teammates when double/triple teamed -Jokic averages 6.9 assists as a spectacular play-maker.
No 3 point line in Wilt's day, but doubt he'd have hit many. Jokic hits 3's.
Dribbling, as you noted -no debate.
And foul shooting no debate LOL!
In 14 seasons, Wilt was MVP 4X, and despite his greatness won only 2 championships.
Jokic already has 3 MVPs. He could add a 2nd championship in a few wks.

I don't think we'll ever be able to know stuff like this. If 3 point shooting was a big part of the NBA back then, it's entirely possible Wilt would have learned how to shoot. At the same time, imagine how much more dominant he would have been with the type of spacing Jokic gets to play with.

 

[Red Holzman]

I don't think we'll ever be able to know stuff like this. If 3 point shooting was a big part of the NBA back then, it's entirely possible Wilt would have learned how to shoot. At the same time, imagine how much more dominant he would have been with the type of spacing Jokic gets to play with.

Agree no way to "know", so debate just an exercise.
IMO a guy who didn't make free throws could never be .350 from 3.
And spacing would work both ways -Wilt never had to cover centers that shot from deep.
Fun to consider a Joker vs Dipper matchup!

 

[Melancer46]

I think that next tier is going to get dinged a lot. They just don't have the winning legacies.

That goes for a decent amount of top 25-50 guys though. Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Nash, etc. It's not disqualifying. I have an extremely hard time putting someone like AD up there though and a kinda hard time with Westbrook but I get it with him. Like with AD, he has fewer 1st team All NBAs than guys like Dwight Howard and Luka Doncic is going to pass Davis for 1st teams this season and he's only been in the league for 6 years. Davis is currently tied for 76th all time in All-NBA selections; he'll move up from there but I think he's grossly overrated historically.