2025 Preseason Top 20 Lookahead

[nyclax]

That seems fair. You might be able to argue they should be in over Yale given that the Bulldogs lost their leading scorer and Johnson and Lyons are coming back from injury, but certainly nothing to be upset by. A lot of people just assume that Princeton will be gangbusters, but I'm not sure. Burns wasn't at the level of Kabiri last year (57 pts vs 35). So perhaps Syracuse could make an argument, but again, nothing to freak out over.

Syracuse should have the #1 ranked midfield. Their close defense should also be top 5 with Figueiras and Dwan.

i've read the issue already...cuse is #2 at midfield behind notre dame, defensible since theyre surprisingly getting mclane back for another year and add the top freshman in matt jeffrey. cuse is not in the top 5 on defense, which includes close D + goalie (they went with penn, notre dame, penn state, princeton, and hop). the orange are however #5 in "specialists" category which includes FO, SSDM, and LSM, and that makes no sense to me lol...first of all why wouldnt goalies be includes in specialists, second if cuse has a weakness or at least an area thats not a surefire strength then it would be ssdms/lsms...

 

[Cuse4455]

I hope Deere steps up.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Attack is more than a speed dodging contest. Spallina and Hiltz are elite PERIOD. He had a slow start to the year, but Hiltz does more off the dodge than he gets credit for. He can get separation/draw the eyes of the defense in a lot of match ups dodging from the left wing and on top of it is one of the best shooters/passers in the nation. You can not put a price on what he achieves with his skip passes, even when they do not result in an assist. Spallina will nearly never get major separation on a longpole but still draws slides by taking the body in match ups, and is also perhaps literally the best passer in the nation. Lethal in pick plays/two man game situations. He picks teams apart. He certainly had a couple bad games last season (who on this list didn't) but overall it takes a top of the top elite cover guy to limit his stats, and then you still have to deal with the rest of our offense. He still has two years left.

5 is only reasonable because of the undecided third spot. If we had a more locked in guy there it should be higher, at least above Princeton and Yale. Look at how that princeton crew did against any defense with a pulse last season. Some of the exact same teams that limited our attack line also did that with Princeton, but we get judged while they get a pass. Holy crap I would looove to see Spallina and Hiltz stats if they played 6-8 ivy games every year. IL would treat them like gods.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

You guys aren't getting a lot of respect from InsideLacrosse.

Oh. No. How. Will. We. Ever. Get. By.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Attack is more than a speed dodging contest. Spallina and Hiltz are elite PERIOD. He had a slow start to the year, but Hiltz does more off the dodge than he gets credit for. He can get separation/draw the eyes of the defense in a lot of match ups dodging from the left wing and on top of it is one of the best shooters/passers in the nation. You can not put a price on what he achieves with his skip passes, even when they do not result in an assist. Spallina will nearly never get major separation on a longpole but still draws slides by taking the body in match ups, and is also perhaps literally the best passer in the nation. Lethal in pick plays/two man game situations. He picks teams apart. He certainly had a couple bad games last season (who on this list didn't) but overall it takes a top of the top elite cover guy to limit his stats, and then you still have to deal with the rest of our offense. He still has two years left.

5 is only reasonable because of the undecided third spot. If we had a more locked in guy there it should be higher, at least above Princeton and Yale. Look at how that princeton crew did against any defense with a pulse last season. Some of the exact same teams that limited our attack line also did that with Princeton, but we get judged while they get a pass. Holy crap I would looove to see Spallina and Hiltz stats if they played 6-8 ivy games every year. IL would treat them like gods.

Spallina and Hiltz are both excellent attackmen, I think that's clear even to the Cuse haters of the world. Both have put up really good numbers and in Joey's case I'd say elite level numbers when you look at what he did as a Frosh and Soph drawing every team's top pole. That said both do lack higher end speed and neither is a top end dodging threat. Against top defenses it can sometime cause struggles which we saw in the Maryland, Army and Denver games last year. That's why I think an attackmen who is an elite dodging threat would be the best bet for that third attack spot. If Deere gets that 3rd spot ( I suspect he will) that unit will still clearly be one of the top in the country, they have pretty much every characteristic you need and have great passing/finishing ability.

IL finding that at 5 to me isn't that big a deal because the dodging angle is still a concern. That said Joey has improved every year here and I suspect he will take yet another step forward this year and we all know what Hiltz is capable of when he is locked in and his shot placement is on. This unit be it with Deere or Anderson or even Leo if necessary will clearly a top 3 unit if not better by seasons end. I hope the fanbase really takes time to enjoy these guys because next year teh attack unit will look a lot different, potentially in more ways than one.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

No mention of Leo? IL needs to do their HW.

 

[Powellfan]

I hope the fanbase really takes time to enjoy these guys because next year teh attack unit will look a lot different, potentially in more ways than one.

Jeremy, are you intimating something here? Spallina's dad said that he had unfinished business "this year". Is he out after this year? Don't mess with me, man! Am I making something out of nothing? I've been on this board too long.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Jeremy, are you intimating something here? Spallina's dad said that he had unfinished business "this year". Is he out after this year? Don't mess with me, man! Am I making something out of nothing? I've been on this board too long.

LOL, I definitely don't want to mess with the top lax guy on here! We both have been on here for to long thats for sure. As for your question I do expect there will be some portal entries next year that maybe surprising (not saying that is Joey) as I have heard some rumblings that not everyone who has the ability to come back is for sure to.

 

[nyclax]

Jeremy, are you intimating something here? Spallina's dad said that he had unfinished business "this year". Is he out after this year? Don't mess with me, man! Am I making something out of nothing? I've been on this board too long.

from what ive heard...the air is cleared and joey is sticking around, i'd be very very surprised if he leaves now...that said i dont think people realize how close he was to entering the portal over the summer

 

[JeremyCuse]

from what ive heard...the air is cleared and joey is sticking around, i'd be very very surprised if he leaves now...that said i dont think people realize how close he was to entering the portal over the summer

Yes I believe both parties are in a very good place right now. Unfortunately I know how close it was, would have been a bad result for both sides I think, certainly for SU it would have been a massive loss to lose a player of Joey's caliber. Good news is everyone appears to be on the same page and it hopefully stays that way.

 

[Zack80]

That seems fair. You might be able to argue they should be in over Yale given that the Bulldogs lost their leading scorer and Johnson and Lyons are coming back from injury, but certainly nothing to be upset by. A lot of people just assume that Princeton will be gangbusters, but I'm not sure. Burns wasn't at the level of Kabiri last year (57 pts vs 35). So perhaps Syracuse could make an argument, but again, nothing to freak out over.

Syracuse should have the #1 ranked midfield. Their close defense should also be top 5 with Figueiras and Dwan.

I would be deciding between Syracuse and Cornell for the #1 attack. I would probably go with Finn Thomson on attack given that he is a right-hander.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Spallina and Hiltz are both excellent attackmen, I think that's clear even to the Cuse haters of the world. Both have put up really good numbers and in Joey's case I'd say elite level numbers when you look at what he did as a Frosh and Soph drawing every team's top pole. That said both do lack higher end speed and neither is a top end dodging threat. Against top defenses it can sometime cause struggles which we saw in the Maryland, Army and Denver games last year. That's why I think an attackmen who is an elite dodging threat would be the best bet for that third attack spot. If Deere gets that 3rd spot ( I suspect he will) that unit will still clearly be one of the top in the country, they have pretty much every characteristic you need and have great passing/finishing ability.

IL finding that at 5 to me isn't that big a deal because the dodging angle is still a concern. That said Joey has improved every year here and I suspect he will take yet another step forward this year and we all know what Hiltz is capable of when he is locked in and his shot placement is on. This unit be it with Deere or Anderson or even Leo if necessary will clearly a top 3 unit if not better by seasons end. I hope the fanbase really takes time to enjoy these guys because next year teh attack unit will look a lot different, potentially in more ways than one.

They are not your standard fast dodgers, but in the end, if Spallina and Hiltz have the ball in their stick to initiate the offense, they can make a ton happen, even if that is does not include sprinting by their man or breaking ankles. To me it is all the same, and they are still essentially "dodging threats" despite the lack of high end speed. A quick skip pass to a middie who has a step since the defense is still rotating to him is valuable. A perfectly timed and placed pass to a guy back dooring his man on the crease is valuable.

A lot of these faster dodging attack (including some of our own previous dodgers like Dordevic) do not get you nearly as much as feeders, which means unless they are able to torch their long pole matchup on the regular, you are not getting a lot out of them. With guys like ONeill and Duffy, they actually begin to hurt the team rather than help, by spraying several contested shots and killing ball movement.

I think one area where we definitely agree is that IF a defense's MO is to pack it in and only slide when absolutely necessary, we have to be willing to switch certain guys out. If Deere is the third attack put in Leo or Anderson. If Thomson or Birtwistle is out at attack or middie maybe switch them for a guy like Rhoa or Hottle. But even then I would not take out Hiltz or Spallina since they are far from useless 1v1.

 

[GrowTheGame]

I still don’t quite understand why Spallina would leave, he’s the face of the program? What disconnect was there? Gait’s game management?

 

[Powellfan]

i've read the issue already...cuse is #2 at midfield behind notre dame, defensible since theyre surprisingly getting mclane back for another year and add the top freshman in matt jeffrey. cuse is not in the top 5 on defense, which includes close D + goalie (they went with penn, notre dame, penn state, princeton, and hop). the orange are however #5 in "specialists" category which includes FO, SSDM, and LSM, and that makes no sense to me lol...first of all why wouldnt goalies be includes in specialists, second if cuse has a weakness or at least an area thats not a surefire strength then it would be ssdms/lsms...

After I posted I remembered Notre Dame has a pretty good claim for number one. They should be very deep next year as well. Number 2 is still pretty good, I think there is quite a drop off after that.

Surprised Princeton made their top five for defense - they lost some poles and some SSDMs and their starting goalie. But IL seems to think that Princeton can just constantly replace guys and see little drop off. More I think about the Tigers, the more I want to short them for next season.

I'm guessing the specialist ranking is based on Grace being a LSM? And taking into account Mullen being as good a starter as he was a #2. And Rice. In terms of top level guys I could see that making some sense, but unclear if Grace plays LSM and the depth behind Rice I'm sure people are tired of me talking about.

 

[nyclax]

After I posted I remembered Notre Dame has a pretty good claim for number one. They should be very deep next year as well. Number 2 is still pretty good, I think there is quite a drop off after that.

Surprised Princeton made their top five for defense - they lost some poles and some SSDMs and their starting goalie. But IL seems to think that Princeton can just constantly replace guys and see little drop off. More I think about the Tigers, the more I want to short them for next season.

I'm guessing the specialist ranking is based on Grace being a LSM? And taking into account Mullen being as good a starter as he was a #2. And Rice. In terms of top level guys I could see that making some sense, but unclear if Grace plays LSM and the depth behind Rice I'm sure people are tired of me talking about.

yes princeton's ranking was primarily based on the strength of their close defensemen mulshine and bath, and IL really likes their freshman class. shocker...
cuse's specialist ranking didnt have anything to do with grace, in fact they project caccamo to start there. but they seem high on rice, spallina, and mullen

 

[ColdAnger]

They are not your standard fast dodgers, but in the end, if Spallina and Hiltz have the ball in their stick to initiate the offense, they can make a ton happen, even if that is does not include sprinting by their man or breaking ankles. To me it is all the same, and they are still essentially "dodging threats" despite the lack of high end speed. A quick skip pass to a middie who has a step since the defense is still rotating to him is valuable. A perfectly timed and placed pass to a guy back dooring his man on the crease is valuable.

A lot of these faster dodging attack (including some of our own previous dodgers like Dordevic) do not get you nearly as much as feeders, which means unless they are able to torch their long pole matchup on the regular, you are not getting a lot out of them. With guys like ONeill and Duffy, they actually begin to hurt the team rather than help, by spraying several contested shots and killing ball movement.

I think one area where we definitely agree is that IF a defense's MO is to pack it in and only slide when absolutely necessary, we have to be willing to switch certain guys out. If Deere is the third attack put in Leo or Anderson. If Thomson or Birtwistle is out at attack or middie maybe switch them for a guy like Rhoa or Hottle. But even then I would not take out Hiltz or Spallina since they are far from useless 1v1.

I think your last paragraph makes the case for needing a dodging threat. No matter how you slice it, you have to get 2 to play 1 and move the ball. Lots of ways to get there … elite dodger, two-man game, off ball picks, dodging shorties, etc. but sometime, somewhere along the way, you may just need a guy to win his 1v1 matchup (to draw and dump or to take his own shot) and that becomes a lot easier if that guy never comes off the field and doesn’t care about the matchup.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

I still don’t quite understand why Spallina would leave, he’s the face of the program? What disconnect was there? Gait’s game management?

Joey is a very good player he will probably break SU’s scoring record but as of now I wouldn’t even have him in SU’s top ten attackman of all time. I will definitely not miss his father on any level who is rumored to be heading south after his daughter graduates in June who knows what is true and what is internet gossip

 

[cuselaxss26]

I think if you don’t have a fast attack we will say or anyone that can beat ya with just pure speed. Think it could do wonders for that attack if your midfield can hit some long range or even mid range shots. Also ur mids be able to shoot on run. Problem or issue with our attack not having speed is D normally packs it in tight. Have to get other guys take some outside shots teams gladly give us and force them to press out. I also believe these is a time as someone said you just need dude to run pass his man. I’d say this mostly true at end of games or really need a fast goal.

 

[cuselaxss26]

We clearly can feed ball n score tight close goals. Think what we lacked majorly that hurt more then joey or hiltz not having enough speed to best top cover guys is a rangy shooter. I assume early birt could help this but he never seemed to reach level he did before. Rhoa has cannon but hesitated at times. Offense has to have all aspect covered to hoist trophy. We have ball movement n finishing abilities. Need a solid sniper if don’t have pure speed dodger. Least my opinion.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I think your last paragraph makes the case for needing a dodging threat. No matter how you slice it, you have to get 2 to play 1 and move the ball. Lots of ways to get there … elite dodger, two-man game, off ball picks, dodging shorties, etc. but sometime, somewhere along the way, you may just need a guy to win his 1v1 matchup (to draw and dump or to take his own shot) and that becomes a lot easier if that guy never comes off the field and doesn’t care about the matchup.

In an ideal world, you have a guy at attack with both the dodging ability of a Dordevic and the feeding ability of a Hiltz or Spallina. Unfortunately those are the true unicorns of the game that end up on the mount rushmore of all time lacrosse players. Pat Kavanaugh is maybe the only name that came close to fitting that description last season. Even guys like Oneill and Shellenberger get taken out of the game by certain longpole matchups.

I think Hiltz and Spallina are the closest we get to that complete attackmen. Since their skills are skewed towards feeding, I think having a guy like Deere who (in theory) can catch and bury anything thrown in his direction, along with getting them open through two man game looks, is best to compliment their skills. There will also be matchups where Hiltz and Spallina are drawing slides. I think a guy like Leo is probably the closest to fitting your description of a guy who can dodge no matter who is guarding him. Would certainly be open to trying that out if teams can easily contain Deere, or he struggles to find the cage at a high rate.

 

[DoctahLexus]

We clearly can feed ball n score tight close goals. Think what we lacked majorly that hurt more then joey or hiltz not having enough speed to best top cover guys is a rangy shooter. I assume early birt could help this but he never seemed to reach level he did before. Rhoa has cannon but hesitated at times. Offense has to have all aspect covered to hoist trophy. We have ball movement n finishing abilities. Need a solid sniper if don’t have pure speed dodger. Least my opinion.

Agreed. Rhoa and Birt have potential there but were inconsistent. While I love English and Stevens, their outside shooting was downright poor at times. If Tucker Kellogg is good enough in other areas, would love to see some time from him on the second line of mids.