2025 Strategy Shift?

[Kalima45]

We have also missed out on at least three portal guys we wanted to bring in with Garcia, Herring and McVay all going to other schools. I believe there are still some holes to fill that the staff is aware of.

 

[vegasnick]

We have also missed out on at least three portal guys we wanted to bring in with Garcia, Herring and McVay all going to other schools. I believe there are still some holes to fill that the staff is aware of.

This is true. We missed on 5 recruits who were scheduled to visit and then Committed elsewhere before we had a chance to get them on campus. AJ Pena, Riley Wilson, and the three mentioned above. Based of conversations I’ve had with people close to the program the schools that landed them “overpaid”. That is not a good recipe for success long term.

As much as I’ve been reiterating the staffs goals of developing the players they have- I do think they will continue to watch the portal for a possible OL, DL, LB, DB. That’s not to say they’re definitely going to add all 4 - but I’d doubt they are done adding.

We also have to see who we lose in the spring portal- that will likely give a better idea in the direction they will go.

 

[Nahson]

Lol @ ripping on all the other players on the team but saying you're high on Villari, one of the worst players on our roster.

Who did a rip on? Other than maybe the defense.

 

[bnoro]

The whole "recruiting rankings don't matter" is probably the most wildly inaccurate argument that gets repeated on this forum.

They are on average correct but with wild variability for individual players. A single guy who is rated 90 probably only has about a 60% chance of being better than a single guy who is rated 85. But if you repeat that over 20-25 players per year for 4 years, there is a 100% chance that a roster full of 90's is a better team than a roster full of 85's. Literally 100%.

Here are the class rankings the last 4 years for the teams that made the final 4 of the CFP:
OSU 5, 4, 4, 2
ND 9, 12, 7, 9
Texas 6, 3, 5, 15
PSU 15, 14, 6, 21

Other teams of note:
Oregon 3, 9, 13, 4
UGA 1, 2, 3, 6

If you are not bringing in top 10-15 classes every year you can absolutely forget competing for a national title. Pointing to one guy where the rankings didn't pan out is a complete misunderstanding of statistics -- it's like saying Vegas has no idea what they are doing because they got the line wrong for one game. Ok, then try betting against Vegas 80 more times and see how it works out.

What came first, the chicken or the egg? The highest ranked programs have the best classes because when the kids commit there, they get a ratings boost. Those sites have the most subscribers because they have the biggest fanbases so there is more bias.

Then, those "former 4 stars" hit the portal and go to other smaller schools because they weren't actually good enough, but because classes aren't ranked after the fact they can keep doing what they're doing.

I'm sure there are a few 7-5 teams in the top 25 recruiting rankings. You'll never see an unbiased system because the sites exist to make money. Teams use proprietary systems, they aren't looking at 2 4 7 or r i v a l s.

 

[RMH44]

Nobody said they aren’t losing players who were valuable- what you’re not understanding is, Fran and the staff feel like they have the pieces necessary and capable to replace them without having to rely on the portal.

You have an obsession that the only way to be good is by adding “studs” from the portal.

Exactly, and let's not forget that JMeeks wasn't considered a stud transfer before he got here. No mention of:
OG 1st team
Pena 2nd team
LQA honorable mention (twice)
Bradford honorable mention
JB honorable mention
Wax honorable mention
Stonehouse honorable mention

 

[vegasnick]

Ok, i’ll go with the same schools who consistently have top 20 classes. You can have our recruiting classes over the last 20 years and let’s see which programs turn out better. You make it seem that our poor recruiting ranking the last 15 years is unjustified because some recruiting website is out to get us. I don’t see how they’ve been wrong? Until this past season where we brought in a ton of studs through the portal and happened to have a game changing TE on the roster , i don’t see how they’ve been so wrong?

Ok- here we are again! This is beginning to actually be comical and annoying at the same time. You are persistent that “rankings” are the ultimate indicator of who is a stud and will have a massive impact while insisting the only way to be competitive is to “plug and play” via the portal. Which one is it?

So let’s take Jamie Tremble for example. You said the young guys never seen the field and didn’t contribute so we HAVE to do a better job recruiting and get from the portal. Jamie Tremble is a 4 star 93 rated TE. Who redshirted and has a year in the system playing behind OG. Should we just go to the portal? Or is the approach Fran prefers- developing young players the answer?

Both can be right- but you have to trust the process and the idea that the staff knows more than a forum.

Jamie Tremble, Syracuse Orange, Tight End

Member of 247Sports’ 2024 Freaks List. Also runs track and plays basketball. ---- Georgia Region 7-AAA Offensive Player of the Year. Caught 55 passes for 890...

247sports.com

 

[OttosShoes]

Exactly, and let's not forget that JMeeks wasn't considered a stud transfer before he got here.

Quoted for emphasis. To a lot of folks he was just "one of those Georgia transfers."

I think our big value in the portal is giving exposure to underrated backups. If we don't feel we got a lot of talent in the portal, it might just be because we did it right.

 

[shu 49]

Nobody said they aren’t losing players who were valuable- what you’re not understanding is, Fran and the staff feel like they have the pieces necessary and capable to replace them without having to rely on the portal.

You have an obsession that the only way to be good is by adding “studs” from the portal.

I kinda get what he is saying only cause the lb safety and corner we do need needs to be high end guys who could make the all star teams otherwise we wont have a defense that can stop anyone. U figure without McCord, we will need drastic uptick in defense and try to allow only 22 points per game and not 29 and change. We will no doubt score less so our Defense has to make up the difference. Also our specials have to be special and not in the bad way to also help make up for lack of Qb. My Feeling is if we had the studs we needed we would have played them a bit more somehow. I dont feel we need a
[bunch} more but the three i talked about.

 

[vegasnick]

I kinda get what he is saying only cause the lb safety and corner we do need needs to be high end guys who could make the all star teams otherwise we wont have a defense that can stop anyone. U figure without McCord, we will need drastic uptick in defense and try to allow only 22 points per game and not 29 and change. We will no doubt score less so our Defense has to make up the difference. Also our specials have to be special and not in the bad way to also help make up for lack of Qb. My Feeling is if we had the studs we needed we would have played them a bit more somehow. I dont feel we need a
[bunch} more but the three i talked about.

I think they are actively looking to fill those exact holes. I also agree adding a couple of the right pieces is the right move.

We can’t expect a massive haul from the portal last year nor should we want it. Last year was an anomaly- They had to overhaul the roster in a short period of time.

In regards to next season- everything is speculation at this point. I think the offensive production was a combination of talent and the system- it’s possible the system can still produce ample results with the talent we have.

Developing players is mainly done in practice and through the offseason. Even leading up to the bowl game (usually where all the prospects get to show their skills) Fran said the guys that got us here are the ones that are going to complete this for us. This offseason is going to be crucial for said players development- the spring game is going to be very interesting.

 

[MamesJungro]

Last year, we were one of the strangest teams I've ever watched. A ball control passing team that rarely threw down the field. It looks like it was a difficult-to-replicate mix of a very accurate McCord and receivers who were exceptional at catching contested balls in tight windows.

If both regress to the mean, I'm guessing we're giving opponents 2-3 more possessions a game. Our defense would not have held up last year if that was the case, and it's hard to see them being better based on the current depth chart.

 

[bnoro]

Last year, we were one of the strangest teams I've ever watched. A ball control passing team that rarely threw down the field. It looks like it was a difficult-to-replicate mix of a very accurate McCord and receivers who were exceptional at catching contested balls in tight windows.

If both regress to the mean, I'm guessing we're giving opponents 2-3 more possessions a game. Our defense would not have held up last year if that was the case, and it's hard to see them being better based on the current depth chart.

If the offense doesn't change and not one player on both offense or defense improves, we'll be a worse team than last year. Bold take.

I'm sure we'll build an offense more around the strengths of our incoming QBs rather than just run the same offense we ran with Kyle under center. Having a more athletic QB that can roll out and escape pressure will also help.

 

[vegasnick]

Last year, we were one of the strangest teams I've ever watched. A ball control passing team that rarely threw down the field. It looks like it was a difficult-to-replicate mix of a very accurate McCord and receivers who were exceptional at catching contested balls in tight windows.

If both regress to the mean, I'm guessing we're giving opponents 2-3 more possessions a game. Our defense would not have held up last year if that was the case, and it's hard to see them being better based on the current depth chart.

I would agree that having an offense who passed the ball so much and still controlled time of possession is rare. I think that is a testament more on the System than any one player. Like you said, they were short passes, we rarely took shots down field. With Pena, Gill, JRS amongst many other back, I think we can expect similar results from the WR group. The ultimate question is can the new QB be accurate enough. That said, the system may make that an easier transition than some think. Also, with the mobility of all the quarterbacks this year, running will also add to ball control.

 

[djorange1989]

We are going to add more portal guys, Fran isn’t going to overpay for guys, however, so they may not be glamorous but should be solid. I think we will see some JUCO adds, some gems can be found in the spring via that route, some very good players who will have their eligibility clear by then. The world is full of gray and not usually black and white. Next year will be challenging and just making a bowl will be good. That doesn’t mean Fran is punting on the season however, he has a philosophy to build the program. This year was important because it immediately brought excitement towards the program, it gave him instant credibility. Fran isn’t going to settle for just a bowl but we as fans can recognize that it just might be the ceiling. Which is ok as long as a solid plan is being implemented. The guy is extremely organized, he was waiting for this opportunity with notebooks full of Kirby Smart level coaching information.

My take is this: we were really only good at two things this year: passing the ball and coming through in close games. So much of that falls on how great Kyle was. We now have a QB room that has thrown a combined 11 career passes in college. The drop off there is to me the scary part. I am not worried about a drop off elsewhere when we weren’t so hot to begin with. LQA is the other guy we will miss, dude was a dog for us in the clutch as well and that will be really hard to replace. I think with Fran and Nixon we have two brilliant guys. Wait and see on EROB.

 

[vegasnick]

Just to add further about taking rankings with a grain of salt.

Lequint Allen 85 - started his sophomore season https://247sports.com/player/lequint-allen-46096357/

Savion Washington 80 out of HS 85 as a Transfer https://247sports.com/player/savion-washington-46081225/

Marlow Wax 83 and recruited as a RB https://247sports.com/player/marlowe-wax-46054791/

Justin Barron 84 https://247sports.com/player/justin-barron-46047651/

Orande Gadsden 84 https://247sports.com/player/oronde-gadsden-ii-46084827/

They ALL started as sophomores and developed over time. The pool of athletes that Fran has coming in and coming back which he recruited are mostly higher ranked players. MORE reason to believe in player development! Wouldn't you have to agree anomander ??

 

[hoopsupstate]

I’m interested in seeing what players emerge as leaders. This worries me the most. We had some great leaders on this past year’s team. We need leaders to step up on both sides of the ball.

 

[anomander]

We have also missed out on at least three portal guys we wanted to bring in with Garcia, Herring and McVay all going to other schools. I believe there are still some holes to fill that the staff is aware of.

Even mid to lower tier B10 schools are now paying players like that

Ok- here we are again! This is beginning to actually be comical and annoying at the same time. You are persistent that “rankings” are the ultimate indicator of who is a stud and will have a massive impact while insisting the only way to be competitive is to “plug and play” via the portal. Which one is it?

So let’s take Jamie Tremble for example. You said the young guys never seen the field and didn’t contribute so we HAVE to do a better job recruiting and get from the portal. Jamie Tremble is a 4 star 93 rated TE. Who redshirted and has a year in the system playing behind OG. Should we just go to the portal? Or is the approach Fran prefers- developing young players the answer?

Both can be right- but you have to trust the process and the idea that the staff knows more than a forum.

Jamie Tremble, Syracuse Orange, Tight End

Member of 247Sports’ 2024 Freaks List. Also runs track and plays basketball. ---- Georgia Region 7-AAA Offensive Player of the Year. Caught 55 passes for 890...

247sports.com

It’s not that complicated to know the areas you need to improve your roster if you’re a HC. Just like you can walk and chew gum, you can utilize both HS recruiting and transfers from the portal. I think Fran can finally be the right HC, but there’s also been 15 years of “trust the HC” on the forum and where has that got us? Not to mention it’s a fan discussion board. Until he produces back to back top 25 seasons its ok to question if going away from a formula that worked last season with a nice mix of high end transfers and HS recruiting will get us similar results next season.

 

[anomander]

Just to add further about taking rankings with a grain of salt.

Lequint Allen 85 - started his sophomore season https://247sports.com/player/lequint-allen-46096357/

Savion Washington 80 out of HS 85 as a Transfer https://247sports.com/player/savion-washington-46081225/

Marlow Wax 83 and recruited as a RB https://247sports.com/player/marlowe-wax-46054791/

Justin Barron 84 https://247sports.com/player/justin-barron-46047651/

Orande Gadsden 84 https://247sports.com/player/oronde-gadsden-ii-46084827/

They ALL started as sophomores and developed over time. The pool of athletes that Fran has coming in and coming back which he recruited are mostly higher ranked players. MORE reason to believe in player development! Wouldn't you have to agree anomander ??

If you have 85 or now 105 scholarships there will always be outliers. Those are all Babers recruits and he was one of the worst identifiers of talent than we have ever seen. Outside of Gadsen he didn’t recruit and develop 1 above average WR in 8 years. There is a reason he was fired and had 2 winning seasons during his time here. Because he recruited towards the bottom of the ACC on an annual basis. I can pretty much guarantee if this current staff recruits at a similar level, or even slightly better, the results will be similar.

 

[bnoro]

If you have 85 or now 105 scholarships there will always be outliers. Those are all Babers recruits and he was one of the worst identifiers of talent than we have ever seen. Outside of Gadsen he didn’t recruit and develop 1 above average WR in 8 years. There is a reason he was fired and had 2 winning seasons during his time here. Because he recruited towards the bottom of the ACC on an annual basis. I can pretty much guarantee if this current staff recruits at a similar level, or even slightly better, the results will be similar.

Okay now you're just making things up. Dino recruited Pena, Hatcher, and Gill who all had big roles on our team last season. Dino also recruited Sean Riley, Taj Harris, and Amba Etta-Tawo as a transfer.

At this point I feel like maybe being on this board isn't good for your health, you're getting too worried about a roster that isn't even complete at this point. There's no reason to be this depressed and negative.

 

[vegasnick]

If you have 85 or now 105 scholarships there will always be outliers. Those are all Babers recruits and he was one of the worst identifiers of talent than we have ever seen. Outside of Gadsen he didn’t recruit and develop 1 above average WR in 8 years. There is a reason he was fired and had 2 winning seasons during his time here. Because he recruited towards the bottom of the ACC on an annual basis. I can pretty much guarantee if this current staff recruits at a similar level, or even slightly better, the results will be similar.

What does this answer have to do with what I asked you? You talk circles just to try and make a point that might stick and make yourself sound like you actually know what you're talking about. You persistently tried to argue and continue to, that the only way to continue success is by bringing in similar talent to last year via the portal. Then you incorrectly stated that this year's recruiting class was not comparable to last years and much of the same as the past 20 years, WRONG AGAIN! Now today's claim is "Not to mention it’s a fan discussion board. Until he produces back to back top 25 seasons its ok to question if going away from a formula that worked last season with a nice mix of high end transfers and HS recruiting will get us similar results next season." How many transfers are we replacing from last year who contributed? The answer is 5, McCord/Meeks/Savion/Lewis/Diggs/. We all know McCord is irreplaceable and whoever wins the job will have to be a work in project, but with Nixon and the right system it very well could work out just fine. Savion's replacement is already on Campus, likely Wolabaugh and Spoon (unless one moves to guard for Betrand). Meeks had a great season, not taking anything from him, the WR room is deep enough to replace his production. Diggs will likely be replaced by David O and KJE, now is that an equivalent replacement, its too soon to tell. I will tell you that ACC Honorable mention was a let down for Diggs and his stats did not jump off the chart and his tackling was subpar most of the time. He did make great plays but the consistency was not there! Lewis is the one we are still unsure on who is replacing him. That might be one portal addition we bring in, however Fran LOVES the guys he brought in over the last 2 recruiting cycles and may feel confident replacing him from within.

The other studs are players that had lower recruiting grades that developed over their career that Fran inherited from Dino. The guys Fran has to choose from that are his recruits are ranked higher and have been in his system from day 1. Now do you see why he is developing from within?

 

[anomander]

What does this answer have to do with what I asked you? You talk circles just to try and make a point that might stick and make yourself sound like you actually know what you're talking about. You persistently tried to argue and continue to, that the only way to continue success is by bringing in similar talent to last year via the portal. Then you incorrectly stated that this year's recruiting class was not comparable to last years and much of the same as the past 20 years, WRONG AGAIN! Now today's claim is "Not to mention it’s a fan discussion board. Until he produces back to back top 25 seasons its ok to question if going away from a formula that worked last season with a nice mix of high end transfers and HS recruiting will get us similar results next season." How many transfers are we replacing from last year who contributed? The answer is 5, McCord/Meeks/Savion/Lewis/Diggs/. We all know McCord is irreplaceable and whoever wins the job will have to be a work in project, but with Nixon and the right system it very well could work out just fine. Savion's replacement is already on Campus, likely Wolabaugh and Spoon (unless one moves to guard for Betrand). Meeks had a great season, not taking anything from him, the WR room is deep enough to replace his production. Diggs will likely be replaced by David O and KJE, now is that an equivalent replacement, its too soon to tell. I will tell you that ACC Honorable mention was a let down for Diggs and his stats did not jump off the chart and his tackling was subpar most of the time. He did make great plays but the consistency was not there! Lewis is the one we are still unsure on who is replacing him. That might be one portal addition we bring in, however Fran LOVES the guys he brought in over the last 2 recruiting cycles and may feel confident replacing him from within.

The other studs are players that had lower recruiting grades that developed over their career that Fran inherited from Dino. The guys Fran has to choose from that are his recruits are ranked higher and have been in his system from day 1. Now do you see why he is developing from within?

This years class isn’t comparable to last years? Nothing made up there.

 

[vegasnick]

This years class isn’t comparable to last years? Nothing made up there.

This year's class ranked 38 in high school rankings, last year ranked 37!!! Not too mention we brought in 9 more guys this year! You just don't get it!!!!!

 

[anomander]

Okay now you're just making things up. Dino recruited Pena, Hatcher, and Gill who all had big roles on our team last season. Dino also recruited Sean Riley, Taj Harris, and Amba Etta-Tawo as a transfer.

At this point I feel like maybe being on this board isn't good for your health, you're getting too worried about a roster that isn't even complete at this point. There's no reason to be this depressed and negative.

I forgot about Peña, but if Hatcher and Gill are the best you can come up with over 8 years then i don’t know what to tell you.

 

[anomander]

This year's class ranked 38 in high school rankings, last year ranked 37!!! Not too mention we brought in 9 more guys this year! You just don't get it!!!!!

apparently you don’t get it. It’s 38th because they brought in 9 more guys. avg 86.12 this year 86.93 last year. 2024 had a total of 7 or 8 four star recruits (4 on all tos) this year has 1. That’s just HS recruiting and not including the portal. It’s ok to admit that this years class wasn’t as good as last years.

 

[djorange1989]

Even mid to lower tier B10 schools are now paying players like that

It’s not that complicated to know the areas you need to improve your roster if you’re a HC. Just like you can walk and chew gum, you can utilize both HS recruiting and transfers from the portal. I think Fran can finally be the right HC, but there’s also been 15 years of “trust the HC” on the forum and where has that got us? Not to mention it’s a fan discussion board. Until he produces back to back top 25 seasons its ok to question if going away from a formula that worked last season with a nice mix of high end transfers and HS recruiting will get us similar results next season

Over the 15 years of trust the HC, how many of those coaches won 10 games in year one? I would like to see more portal action too and I think we will, but I think Fran has at least earned enough credibility to implement a longer term plan. Develop and retain is what he wants to be. You have to start that plan sometime, now is the time.

 

[vegasnick]

You can't compare the portal classes from last year to this year. I've only said that to you about 5 times already! They had to overhaul the entire roster last year- the don't have to do that this year because they brought in 61 HS recruits over the last 2 cycles...and may not be done since there is a signing day in February (Tyler Houser).

Now if you want to know factual numbers in 2024 they brought in 4 4 star recruits, 2 of which were out of high school. Jamie Tremble and KJ. This year they brought in 1 4 star recruit Demetres Samuels.

Go one step further "HIGH 3 star" ranking between 87-89, in 2024 they brought in 11 and in 2025 they brought in 12. And if you are too blinded to see that a high school ranking of 37 vs 38 is almost Identical - I don't know if there is any helping you!