3 losing seasons in last 5 years

[FrancoPizza]

But Dook and North Carolina did! So we should too because they are good and in the ACC.

This is what state run media in Syracuse regurgitates without stipulating those programs were not in decline like SU.

How is it that other media markets don’t kowtow in fear of losing access? What’s their secret? A set of balls?

 

[FrancoPizza]

It ultimately didn’t work because Red just isn’t a head coach.

There’s an undertone (or overtone lol) that ‘continuity’ means Red kept doing what JB did when JB was struggling. Red’s offensive and defensive approach never looked like JB’s at any point, though. They both failed in completely unique ways.

A new, outside coach could have worked out better. But, a different continuity hire could have also worked out. Red was the problem, not necessarily continuity.

Disagree. A better continuity hire would be saddled with archaic offensive and defensive systems even if they are a better bench coach. It was never the answer.

 

[Scooch]

How is it that other media markets don’t kowtow in fear of losing access? What’s their secret? A set of balls?

Of course they do. Do you think the beat guys in Durham, Chapel Hill, Storrs, Seattle, etc. are constantly penning hit pieces?

 

[RF2044]

You don’t understand how commentary on the conditions that caused the program’s decline are relevant to commentary on the merits of a continuity hire?

C’mon, man.

SU isn’t here because we ran too many high ball screens and didn’t understand how to defend Golden State-style offenses.

I don't understand why some in our fanbase can't acknowledge that Boeheim lost something off his fastball at the end, when he clearly had.

He can be an iconic, HOF head coach and also not be as good at the end of his career as he was during the first 3/4. Both things can be true at the same time.

SU is where it is because said icon hung on too long, as the collegiate game changed around him. SU is where it is because he was in his late 70s, and didn't want to grind on the recruiting trail anymore. Things got so bad, we had our first losing season in nearly 50 years. And his winning percentage declined from ~74% over his first 38 years to ~54% his last 8 years -- a precipitous decline that also included a LOSING conference record over that 8 year stretch. Over those last 8 years, I believe we lost 12 or more games every season.

And then to cap things off, he foisted an unqualified internal hire on the program, at a time when the program needed to go hire a competent, proven head coach to reverse the decline.

I love Boeheim, and will be eternally grateful for all of the fun he brought into my life, as the head coach of the sports team I am passionate about above all others. But let's not pretend that things were humming along, and then Red just wasn't up to the task.

Because that's what such rationalization is -- pretend. Boeheim built one of the best programs in college basketball, and then nearly ran it into the ground because he hung on too long as the cracks in the foundation worsened. Both things can be true.

 

[Brooky03]

Disagree. A better continuity hire would be saddled with archaic offensive and defensive systems even if they are a better bench coach. It was never the answer.

Those ‘archaic’ systems weren’t in the top 3 reasons of why we fell off.

 

[Brooky03]

I don't understand why some in our fanbase can't acknowledge that Boeheim lost something off his fastball at the end, when he clearly had.

He can be an iconic, HOF head coach and also not be as good at the end of his career as he was during the first 3/4. Both things can be true at the same time.

SU is where it is because said icon hung on too long, as the collegiate game changed around him. SU is where it is because he was in his late 70s, and didn't want to grind on the recruiting trail anymore. Things got so bad, we had our first losing season in nearly 50 years. And his winning percentage declined from ~74% over his first 38 years to ~54% his last 8 years -- a precipitous decline that also included a LOSING conference record over that 8 year stretch. Over those last 8 years, I believe we lost 12 or more games every season.

And then to cap things off, he foisted an unqualified internal hire on the program, at a time when the program needed to go hire a competent, proven head coach to reverse the decline.

I love Boeheim, and will be eternally grateful for all of the fun he brought into my life, as the head coach of the sports team I am passionate about above all others. But let's not pretend that things were humming along, and then Red just wasn't up to the task.

Because that's what such rationalization is -- pretend. Boeheim built one of the best programs in college basketball, and then nearly ran it into the ground because he hung on too long as the cracks in the foundation worsened. Both things can be true.

It feels like you’re building up a bit of a straw man.

JB lost his fastball recruiting. He didn’t want to put in the effort to get the players we needed. He didn’t adapt to the transfer portal. You’re absolutely right about that.

This sense that college basketball play styles changed so drastically that he couldn’t keep up has been and always will be bizarre and betrays what our eyes saw, imo. I don’t think anybody could say with a straight face that the talent on his failed teams would have faired more than a couple wins better in any other system.

 

[charleston]

Boeheim stubbornly stuck with the zone because it was his "persona," while middle school kids were draining threes like layups and the big time coaches were playing physical M to M defense. He couldn't sell the big recruits anymore. He made this program but let it crash with his stubbornness!

 

[RF2044]

It feels like you’re building up a bit of a straw man.

JB lost his fastball recruiting. He didn’t want to put in the effort to get the players we needed. He didn’t adapt to the transfer portal. You’re absolutely right about that.

This sense that college basketball play styles changed so drastically that he couldn’t keep up has been and always will be bizarre and betrays what our eyes saw, imo. I don’t think anybody could say with a straight face that the talent on his failed teams would have faired more than a couple wins better in any other system.

It isn't a straw man -- at all. That's why top coaches like Jay Wright, Roy Williams, and Coach K decided to get out. You can literally draw a line of demarcation from 2020 onward, when the NCAA fundamentally altered collegiate athetics after COVID. The landscape had changed dramatically, and those iconic coaches didn't want to put up with that stuff -- it was less about basketball than before.

Also, Boeheim himself admitted shortly after he stepped away that his defensive system hadn't adapted to the way the game had evolved.

But, some want to pretend that Boeheim could do no wrong. Mularkey. He was great, until he wasn't. And it's OK to admit that. That there were a multitude of reasons why his performance dropped off so dramatically doesn't make it any less true.

I don't think anybody could say with a straight face that the program's performance didn't nosedive after 2016, and it wasn't just because we didn't land a player or two.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't understand why some in our fanbase can't acknowledge that Boeheim lost something off his fastball at the end, when he clearly had.

He can be an iconic, HOF head coach and also not be as good at the end of his career as he was during the first 3/4. Both things can be true at the same time.

SU is where it is because said icon hung on too long, as the collegiate game changed around him. SU is where it is because he was in his late 70s, and didn't want to grind on the recruiting trail anymore. Things got so bad, we had our first losing season in nearly 50 years. And his winning percentage declined from ~74% over his first 38 years to ~54% his last 8 years -- a precipitous decline that also included a LOSING conference record over that 8 year stretch. Over those last 8 years, I believe we lost 12 or more games every season.

And then to cap things off, he foisted an unqualified internal hire on the program, at a time when the program needed to go hire a competent, proven head coach to reverse the decline.

I love Boeheim, and will be eternally grateful for all of the fun he brought into my life, as the head coach of the sports team I am passionate about above all others. But let's not pretend that things were humming along, and then Red just wasn't up to the task.

Because that's what such rationalization is -- pretend. Boeheim built one of the best programs in college basketball, and then nearly ran it into the ground because he hung on too long as the cracks in the foundation worsened. Both things can be true.

Exactly. Meanwhile, in roughly the same time frame, our rival UConn parted ways with their Hall of Fame coach, tried a continuity hire (and somehow still won a fluke natty), then dumped him when he wasn’t performing after only a couple of years, hired the hottest mid major coach available that year (a Northeast guy), quickly rebuilt themselves back into a national power and added two more national titles. The fact that our administration sat idly by while JB ran the program into mediocrity and then into the ground is infuriating. First, they should’ve forced JB to stick to the retirement timeline and not allow Hop to walk. And if that didn’t happen, once the Boeheim boys graduated in 2022, they should have forced JB into retirement that year and gone outside the program to hire a new head coach. The powers-that-be seem to be incredibly risk averse, afraid of bold moves and chained to the past. It’s pathetic.

 

[FrancoPizza]

This sense that college basketball play styles changed so drastically that he couldn’t keep up has been and always will be bizarre and betrays what our eyes saw, imo.

The zone was like the dinosaurs. Both went extinct.

 

[orangecuse]

I don't understand why some in our fanbase can't acknowledge that Boeheim lost something off his fastball at the end, when he clearly had.

He can be an iconic, HOF head coach and also not be as good at the end of his career as he was during the first 3/4. Both things can be true at the same time.

SU is where it is because said icon hung on too long, as the collegiate game changed around him. SU is where it is because he was in his late 70s, and didn't want to grind on the recruiting trail anymore. Things got so bad, we had our first losing season in nearly 50 years. And his winning percentage declined from ~74% over his first 38 years to ~54% his last 8 years -- a precipitous decline that also included a LOSING conference record over that 8 year stretch. Over those last 8 years, I believe we lost 12 or more games every season.

And then to cap things off, he foisted an unqualified internal hire on the program, at a time when the program needed to go hire a competent, proven head coach to reverse the decline.

I love Boeheim, and will be eternally grateful for all of the fun he brought into my life, as the head coach of the sports team I am passionate about above all others. But let's not pretend that things were humming along, and then Red just wasn't up to the task.

Because that's what such rationalization is -- pretend. Boeheim built one of the best programs in college basketball, and then nearly ran it into the ground because he hung on too long as the cracks in the foundation worsened. Both things can be true.

Another fantastic post!

You're spot on on this. Just as you were 3 years ago or so on how it was imperative for SU and its decision makers to go beyond the lazy, path of least resistance, etc. continuity hire. You knew it then, just as several others opined as well. Unfortunately, it really is no surprise that SU hoops is in the current state that it is. 100% self inflicted by the type of leadership that apparently has gone on for decades, etc. Just look at all the AD cluster type stuff said to have been, is going on.

In the end, you reap what you sow.

 

[FloridaCuse]

 

[Scooch]

Red’s comments yesterday really infuriate me. His job was to navigate all the changes in the college landscape. None of this should have surprised him. He’s been in the college game for years and NIL, the portal,
and university-paid player compensation all either existed, or were clearly looming, from day one of his HC tenure.

Not only could Red not coach his way out of a wet paper bag, he was caught flat footed in advocating for the necessary resources to succeed in this new environment.

The former I can almost excuse, he’s a smart guy but can’t transfer knowledge to his players.

The latter is inexcusable. He was unprepared and unmotivated. Honestly with 20/20 hindsight he should have been canned last year after his utterly disastrous offseason in the spring and summer of 2024. That was the sign that he was not even close to being up to the task of running a good program.

 

[KevMonstah]

I think you're kinda missing something in the decline of the program under JB and that I think he
coached his last few years with a major goal of getting Buddy into the NBA, kind of at the expense
of the team's success, and there were a lot of players that left cuz they didn't want to put up with
that. You look at the sweet 16 team that they had, who could have come back, who left, what team
they ended up with the following year, and the results it had, how could you not think that was a
part of it? They lost Kadary, Guerrier, and Braswell, and others, and replaced them with Swider,
Jimmy Jr, and Symir, plus Benny Williams. Bet returning the sweet 16 roster would've gone way
better than 16-17, and maybe JB deciding it's time to retire when Buddy and Jimmy left, and you
get a much smoother transition from a success standpoint, and whatever the heck they did as JB
"left". For a school that prides itself on its communications major, that was pretty pathetic.

He could've made Kadary and Girard work; he could've made Guerrier work too. All for Buddy to
get 56 points to date.

I wish Red had done better, but he doesn't seem to have it. At least as a year to year coach like
you want from Pitino, or Scheyer, or someone like that. IF you took this exact roster, and had it
for two years, and you developed it, you'd probably have a real solid team, but you won't get the
chance, and who knows if he could do it.

Kev

 

[FloridaCuse]

Red’s comments yesterday really infuriate me. His job was to navigate all the changes in the college landscape. None of this should have surprised him. He’s been in the college game for years and NIL, the portal,
and university-paid player compensation all either existed, or were clearly looming, from day one of his HC tenure.

Not only could Red not coach his way out of a wet paper bag, he was caught flat footed in advocating for the necessary resources to succeed in this new environment.

The former I can almost excuse, he’s a smart guy but can’t transfer knowledge to his players.

The latter is inexcusable. He was unprepared and unmotivated. Honestly with 20/20 hindsight he should have been canned last year after his utterly disastrous offseason in the spring and summer of 2024. That was the sign that he was not even close to being up to the task of running a good program.

It seems that Autry is still not taking responsibility for the results of the last 3 years. Like it was due to other things; thing he couldn't control. Yes, last year should have been his last. But maybe giving him another year gives us a better new coach we wouldn't have had last year.

 

[anomander]

I’m so glad the continuity hire delivered on continuity.

The continuity of underachieving to Syracuse standards. Will go down as an all-time bad hire. Absolutely unnecessary considering the already fallen state of the program .

 

[Eric15]

We are continuing to drop on the list of all time tourney appearances. I can’t believe Texas for instance has more than us.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We are continuing to drop on the list of all time tourney appearances. I can’t believe Texas for instance has more than us.

View attachment 260874

It’s 41 for us. Eph the NCAA.

 

[RF2044]

Wow.

What an interview.

Shocking commentary.

 

[kirbivore]

How is it that other media markets don’t kowtow in fear of losing access? What’s their secret? A set of balls?

The Syracuse Media:

 

[kirbivore]

Boeheim stubbornly stuck with the zone because it was his "persona," while middle school kids were draining threes like layups and the big time coaches were playing physical M to M defense. He couldn't sell the big recruits anymore. He made this program but let it crash with his stubbornness!

I wish I remember who posted this iconic line but in the postgame thread after Baylor torched the zone in a 2019 NCAA 1st round game this poster correctly stated that "Steph Curry killed the zone."

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Wow.

What an interview.

Shocking commentary.

If you don’t understand the competitive landscape you are playing in, you are doomed to fail.

 

[atlanticuse]

Wow.

What an interview.

Shocking commentary.

if you follow a link in the article, of course it's time to fan shame and blame the fans. R-bomb too.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Unfortunately, JB had nothing in place when he left. Red was not ready to coach or handle all the changes. It had to be a bit overwhelming.

 

[rrlbees]

if you follow a link in the article, of course it's time to fan shame and blame the fans. R-bomb too.

i just read the article linked in there. no where did they blame the fans for the teams/programs failures. what they did point to was all facts on how some people have handled the failures.