30 min for BB, CS, JGIII, JB, ST 10 min for BW

[Millhouse]

They could've gotten Torrence in the lineup. Everyone else gets rest and better looks. More than enough minutes to go around. Everyone could've been happy with the year, including the players. The guys that lost minutes wouldnt have lost any good shots.

You get way more good pg play, same good shots, less tired legs

It's a shame

 

[tbonezone]

i'm not certain what benny will do . but no talent is happy sitting the bench.

 

[Millhouse]

i'm not certain what benny will do . but no talent is happy sitting the bench.

Yeah I'm talking what they should've done this year.

 

[RF2044]

Obviously, it's too late now.

But for the first 10 or 12 games, Symir couldn't get off of the bench, it seemed. And when he played, he didn't do much. Then, he started getting some drives to the basket / layups to fall, and it was like all of the sudden he settled down. And JB seemed to quickly gain confidence in him.

The problem is, Buddy wasn't going to sit. Joe wasn't going to sit. And JB3 wasn't going to sit. So it was hard to work Symir in -- we get really small, which sucks for our defensive system. Today, we had no choice. But through the lens of hindsight, maybe the answer to our glaring lead guard problem was on the roster all along.

Back-to-back games with 9 or more assists. Solid ball handling and defense. And kid looks like he could be a double-figure scorer. There was no reason to let JG3 struggle against the press like he did for extended stretches, when this kid was capable of doing what he's shown lately.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I said the same exact thing. It was actually an easy rotation to figure out even for Mr non Rotation.

It is insane to be a pure jump shooting team and play every game with tired legs. You will fade at the end of every game.

 

[Millhouse]

I said the same exact thing. It was actually an easy rotation to figure out even for Mr non Rotation.

It is insane to be a pure jump shooting team and play every game with tired legs. You will fade at the end of every game.

It's so obvious that Girard isn't a point guard that it really had to be about maximizing minutes for his kids. He optimized for the wrong thing

It'd be one thing Joe needing to be pg was a constraint

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Obviously, it's too late now.

But for the first 10 or 12 games, Symir couldn't get off of the bench, it seemed. And when he played, he didn't do much. Then, he started getting some drives to the basket / layups to fall, and it was like all of the sudden he settled down. And JB seemed to quickly gain confidence in him.

The problem is, Buddy wasn't going to sit. Joe wasn't going to sit. And JB3 wasn't going to sit. So it was hard to work Symir in -- we get really small, which sucks for our defensive system. Today, we had no choice. But through the lens of hindsight, maybe the answer to our glaring lead guard problem was on the roster all along.

Back-to-back games with 9 or more assists. Solid ball handling and defense. And kid looks like he could be a double-figure scorer. There was no reason to let JG3 struggle against the press like he did for extended stretches, when this kid was capable of doing what he's shown lately.

The D wasn't good anyway we needed to outscore people. Having Buddy at the 3 for 10 mins a game wouldn't have really hurt. Certainly getting Symir twice the mins would have outweighed that.

 

[Millhouse]

Obviously, it's too late now.

But for the first 10 or 12 games, Symir couldn't get off of the bench, it seemed. And when he played, he didn't do much. Then, he started getting some drives to the basket / layups to fall, and it was like all of the sudden he settled down. And JB seemed to quickly gain confidence in him.

The problem is, Buddy wasn't going to sit. Joe wasn't going to sit. And JB3 wasn't going to sit. So it was hard to work Symir in -- we get really small, which sucks for our defensive system. Today, we had no choice. But through the lens of hindsight, maybe the answer to our glaring lead guard problem was on the roster all along.

Back-to-back games with 9 or more assists. Solid ball handling and defense. And kid looks like he could be a double-figure scorer. There was no reason to let JG3 struggle against the press like he did for extended stretches, when this kid was capable of doing what he's shown lately.

Is 30 min a game sitting? I know what you mean but it just seems to be so obviously not in their interest

I don't know their splits but Jimmy was terrible those last few minutes per game, those minutes were not good for anyone, and it's painful that it always went so bad for him at the end. Those extra minutes were a lose-lose

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It's so obvious that Girard isn't a point guard that it really had to be about maximizing minutes for his kids. He optimized for the wrong thing

It'd be one think Joe needing to be pg was a constraint

Buddy had a down shooting year too. Ended up being our worst 3 point shooter. If he were lighting it up maybe you could justify keeping him only at SG.

 

[RF2044]

Is 30 min a game sitting? I know what you mean but it just seems to be so obviously not in their interest

I don't know their splits but Jimmy was terrible those last few minutes per game, those minutes were not good for anyone, and it's painful that it always went so bad for him at the end

For most coaches, no. For JB?

I mean... we didn't imagine how he's had guys near the top of D1 minutes played for 10+ years. Usually, it is just a horse or two he rides. This year, he had three for a significant portion of the year.

I don't disagree -- I've been saying since the first day I joined this forum that I'd wish he'd use more bench. But that's not how JB do.

 

[RF2044]

The D wasn't good anyway we needed to outscore people. Having Buddy at the 3 for 10 mins a game wouldn't have really hurt. Certainly getting Symir twice the mins would have outweighed that.

Agree in principle [even though Buddy is allergic to rebounding].

But the old man is stubborn.

 

[Millhouse]

Buddy had a down shooting year too. Ended up being our worst 3 point shooter. If he were lighting it up maybe you could justify keeping him only at SG.

Would love to see the splits. It doesn't take many tired bad shots to knock him down that far. Torrence gets him better shots too

 

[DoctorBombay]

It's so obvious that Girard isn't a point guard that it really had to be about maximizing minutes for his kids. He optimized for the wrong thing

It'd be one think Joe needing to be pg was a constraint

Been saying the same thing for 2 years straight. He had the prototypical SU PG in Richmond and had to be goaded into giving him more minutes. This year Sy doesn't get an extended look until there's no other choice. Stubbornness...thy name is James Arthur Boeheim.

 

[Millhouse]

For most coaches, no. For JB?

I mean... we didn't imagine how he's had guys near the top of D1 minutes played for 10+ years. Usually, it is just a horse or two he rides. This year, he had three for a significant portion of the year.

I don't disagree -- I've been saying since the first day I joined this forum that I'd wish he'd use more bench. But that's not how JB do.

Then Girard should've been the odd one out

 

[Millhouse]

Been saying the same thing for 2 years straight. He had the prototypical SU PG in Richmond and had to be goaded into giving him more minutes. This year Sy doesn't get an extended look until there's no other choice. Stubbornness...thy name is James Arthur Boeheim.

I got bagged for saying that he's not a pg and he's definitely not a pg on this team that needed ball handling and penetration more than a shooter. We have plenty of shooters

 

[RF2044]

Then Girard should've been the odd one out

No argument there.

But since Joe is one of his anointed heavy minute guys [even when his performance doesn't seem to warrant it], JB keeps him in for the potential he has to get hot.

But I'm not sure why you're arguing this with me. I would have loved to see Symir play more. I said coming out of the preseason games that PG was one of the team's top weaknesses, and it played out that way. Symir is more talented / capable than what I expected given his limited play at Marquette, and I think he could have helped if he got more PT.

 

[Millhouse]

No argument there.

But since Joe is one of his anointed heavy minute guys [even when his performance doesn't seem to warrant it], JB keeps him in for the potential he has to get hot.

But I'm not sure why you're arguing this with me. I would have loved to see Symir play more. I said coming out of the preseason games that PG was one of the team's top weaknesses, and it played out that way. Symir is more talented / capable than what I expected given his limited play at Marquette, and I think he could have helped if he got more PT.

I'm arguing with my son's Rubik's cube and an empty pop can, I am as irritable as chips self inflicted bowel syndrome

 

[djcon57]

I got bagged for saying that he's not a pg and he's definitely not a pg on this team that needed ball handling and penetration more than a shooter. We have plenty of shooters

Joe Girard is not a PG

If I read that one more time my head will explode. A 2-1 ratio for a freshman High D1 is very,very good. He did a great job of handling pressure from great defensive guards as the primary ball handler all year. If that means nothing to you then all I can say is...get used to him or stop watching...

syracusefan.com

3 years of this conversation.

As draining and frustrating as it's been to discuss over and over, imagine how Joe feels.

It's been obvious since Day 1 he needed to be a spot PG here and there. Not 35+ a game

 

[tbonezone]

and that's what needs to change.
1. heavy minutes
2. ZONE only
3. ISO ball

and lastly we need better recruits. the kids we get are good enuf players but not able to overcome the constraints of bullet points 1 thru 3. to point. we need change up top.

 

[djcon57]

and that's what needs to change.
1. heavy minutes
2. ZONE only
3. ISO ball

and lastly we need better recruits. the kids we get are good enuf players but not able to overcome the constraints of bullet points 1 thru 3. to point. we need change up top.

The ISO ball will only return if Cole comes back.

If I see ISO Joe, I'm done.

 

[Manleymen]

Been saying the same thing for 2 years straight. He had the prototypical SU PG in Richmond and had to be goaded into giving him more minutes. This year Sy doesn't get an extended look until there's no other choice. Stubbornness...thy name is James Arthur Boeheim.

I totally agree. Where has this lineup been? Perfect chemistry, sharing the basketball. What this year could have been...

 

[Millhouse]

Joe Girard is not a PG

If I read that one more time my head will explode. A 2-1 ratio for a freshman High D1 is very,very good. He did a great job of handling pressure from great defensive guards as the primary ball handler all year. If that means nothing to you then all I can say is...get used to him or stop watching...

syracusefan.com

3 years of this conversation.

As draining and frustrating as it's been to discuss over and over, imagine how Joe feels.

It's been obvious since Day 1 he needed to be a spot PG here and there. Not 35+ a game

Yeah

Boeheim's will always makes it foolish to give up but I'm giving up

I feel bad for Girard and all the piling on but he's not a point guard and he's really not the point guard this team needs. I just don't see any way to fix this

syracusefan.com

 

[RF2044]

I'm arguing with my son's Rubik's cube and an empty pop can, I am as irritable as chips self inflicted bowel syndrome

I hear you.

Nobody typically is more critical of our PG play on this forums than I am. Drives me nuts that we missed on Kaleb Joseph and Jalen Carey [and Quade Green] back-to-back, and then when we finally landed a true lead guard last year who fit what we do on both sides of the ball [minus a three point shot], JB ran him off.

The crazy thing is, I think Joe came about as close to maximizing his potential this year as possible. And in some ways, he's still inadequate -- because no amount of coaching can fix short and slow with a pedestrian handle.

Symir earned JB's trust, and produced big time at the end of the year. I have to believe that he can build off of how he closed the year and propel that momentum into an offseason where he improves and comes back looking to start. Hope so -- I'm tired of the Frank Howard combo-guard experiments; you can see how much different it is when you have a lead guard who actually knows what the they are doing, and has the athleticism to beat pressure / vision to set teammates up for easy scores. Sure as hell beats 1 on 1 iso ball all game long, with 4 assists on 20 made FGs.

 

[tbonezone]

The crazy thing is, I think Joe came about as close to maximizing his potential this year as possible. And in some ways, he's still inadequate -- because no amount of coaching can fix short and slow with a pedestrian handle.

joe has a decent handle. he's an above average shooter. his assists are low imo.
but i don't criticize the effort or heart. just feel he was dealt a crummy hand by JB.

 

[RF2044]

joe has a decent handle. he's an above average shooter. his assists are low imo.
but i don't criticize the effort or heart. just feel he was dealt a crummy hand by JB.

Agreed. He has a decent handle. He takes care of the ball, and avoids mistakes [even though he makes some head scratching turnovers on occasion that are unforced, like dribbling off his foot out of bounds].

But most lead guards have strong handles, not just decent.