320th Youngest Team in the Country | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

320th Youngest Team in the Country

2017-18 Men's Basketball Cumulative Statistics - Syracuse University Athletics

and last year we had 3 returning players that averaged over 38 minutes per game in the 2017-2018 season and 2 more who averaged over 27 minutes in the prior season. We still did not win an NCCA tourney game.

not sure what this stat has to do with either way. We just are not good nor have we been good for some time. JB supporters point to the sweet 16 in the 17-18 season and the final four in the 15-16 season despite average (at best) regular seasons. Overall trajectory of the program is down, and if Hughes and/or Dolezaj leave, next year will most likely be similar unless JB reverts to scheduling as he did through his first 35 years of coaching. We are an average to below average ACC program at the moment and overall ACC basketball is way down this year.
 
orangehipfan said:
2017-18 Men's Basketball Cumulative Statistics - Syracuse University Athletics

and last year we had 3 returning players that averaged over 38 minutes per game in the 2017-2018 season and 2 more who averaged over 27 minutes in the prior season. We still did not win an NCCA tourney game.

not sure what this stat has to do with either way. We just are not good nor have we been good for some time. JB supporters point to the sweet 16 in the 17-18 season and the final four in the 15-16 season despite average (at best) regular seasons. Overall trajectory of the program is down, and if Hughes and/or Dolezaj leave, next year will most likely be similar unless JB reverts to scheduling as he did through his first 35 years of coaching. We are an average to below average ACC program at the moment and overall ACC basketball is way down this year.
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The point guard, Frank Howard had a broken foot, in case you weren't aware of that fact.
 
CousCuse said:
How can a player play basketball to their full potential with a bad wheel? I tend to think the other issue arose because of pain management.
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Again, not sure what this stat has to do with anything. Also, I am sure many teams (if not all) go through some injury issues over the course of a season. They are part of the game. Howard still played in 29 games and as noted our top recruit for last year was a relatively highly rated point guard.

Do you think we are an above average team/program over the last 5 -6 years and do you think the program is on a positive trajectory over the same period?
 
CousCuse said:
How can a player play basketball to their full potential with a bad wheel? I tend to think the other issue arose because of pain management.
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The coach shouldn’t have played him at all then. Medical RS the kid if playing to his full potential was so important.

All schools deal with injuries. We didn’t lose an all-conference player. Frank Howard was a middle of the road ACC player at best. It’s not like we lost senior year Michael Gbinije or CJ Fair.
 
rrlbees said:
still a fact we are 320 in experience returning. It’s not “alleged”.
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Fair enough...if one chooses to use those KenPom statistics. However, just as arguments were made during the football season on that side, one can generally always find some particular stat to suit their particular argument or position. One may choose to look at the fact that we have three juniors (one who's in his 4th year and a senior academically) and a sophomore in the starting lineup, all whom saw meaningful minutes in games last season and conclude something different relative to "experience." Therefore, what one chooses to focus on in that regard is subject to their particular viewpoint. That was the intention of my "alleged" statement, not the certitude of if you use a specific chosen stat (as in the KenPom one you're citing) that it isn't actual.
 
orangehipfan said:
Again, not sure what this stat has to do with anything. Also, I am sure many teams (if not all) go through some injury issues over the course of a season. They are part of the game. Howard still played in 29 games and as noted our top recruit for last year was a relatively highly rated point guard.

Do you think we are an above average team/program over the last 5 -6 years and do you think the program is on a positive trajectory over the same period?
Expand...
I think for the last several years the coaching staff created a strategy to get through sanctions and they did very well imo. This is the first year post sanctions and we have 5 freshman and a full roster to develop as they did previous to sanctions. 1 or 2 more years and the system will be stocked and experienced and at that point JB will probably be thinking he can hand his successor a good situation.
 
orangecuse said:
Fair enough...if one chooses to use those KenPom statistics. However, just as arguments were made during the football season on that side, one can generally always find some particular stat to suit their particular argument or position. One may choose to look at the fact that we have three juniors (one who's in his 4th year and a senior academically) and a sophomore in the starting lineup, all whom saw meaningful minutes in games last season and conclude something different relative to "experience." Therefore, what one chooses to focus on in that regard is subject to their particular viewpoint. That was the intention of my "alleged" statement, not the certitude of if you use a specific chosen stat (as in the KenPom one you're citing) that it isn't actual.
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I’m not supporting one argument or another. I replied to the post wondering what JB was talking about. And you or I could do what KenPom did if we had the playing time data from last year and the time. Assuming he made no mistakes, it’s valid.
 
Alsacs said:
The coach shouldn’t have played him at all then. Medical RS the kid if playing to his full potential was so important.

All schools deal with injuries. We didn’t lose an all-conference player. Frank Howard was a middle of the road ACC player at best. It’s not like we lost senior year Michael Gbinije or CJ Fair.
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What's interesting is, had Frankie taken a medical redshirt last season, he would have solved a TON of the problems we have this season as a senior starting point guard.
 
rrlbees said:
I’m not supporting one argument or another. I replied to the post wondering what JB was talking about. And you or I could do what KenPom did if we had the playing time data from last year and the time. Assuming he made no mistakes, it’s valid.
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JB will say whatever he wants to fit whatever point he wants to make.
We aren't good this year because the talent level is the lowest its been at Syracuse in his entire tenure. This is a talent issue not a youth issue.
Our youth will become more experienced in the future but unless the talent from Guerrier and Goodine flashes the program will be in trouble.
Buddy/Girard are role players. They aren't stars. That is fine. Hughes is being shoehorned into the star role when ideally he would be a piece and not the focus.
We get nothing from Sidibe and Marek is inconsistent.
If we had a complete team the youth argument wouldn't be spewed from JB.
This is a talent issue.
 
we start 1 frosh. QG has avg'd about 10 mpg so far in league play. don't expect we'll see much time from goodine going forward. how does that make us a young team ? look around our own league. frosh starting everywhere. inexperienced is a different animal than young. jb don't play bench so players don't get experience.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
What's interesting is, had Frankie taken a medical redshirt last season, he would have solved a TON of the problems we have this season as a senior starting point guard.
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That is on the HC. He could have shutdown Frank. Frank wasn't going to play pro basketball.
We rushed him back last year after the MSG fiasco last year. We were ranked preseason last year. Their were expectations to be a good team. If Frank Howard needed a medical RS he shouldn't have played. It's not like he saved the season last year.
 
Alsacs said:
JB will say whatever he wants to fit whatever point he wants to make.
We aren't good this year because the talent level is the lowest its been at Syracuse in his entire tenure. This is a talent issue not a youth issue.
Our youth will become more experienced in the future but unless the talent from Guerrier and Goodine flashes the program will be in trouble.
Buddy/Girard are role players. They aren't stars. That is fine. Hughes is being shoehorned into the star role when ideally he would be a piece and not the focus.
We get nothing from Sidibe and Marek is inconsistent.
If we had a complete team the youth argument wouldn't be spewed from JB.
This is a talent issue.
Expand...

you seem to be arguing something with me that i wasn’t arguing.
 
Fly Rodder said:
Yeah. Lots of bad young teams turn out to be bad experienced teams, too. Not everyone gets better.
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and sometime they do end up getting better
 
rrlbees said:
you seem to be arguing something with me that i wasn’t arguing.
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I wasn't arguing with you. I was giving a response. KP's stat is being used to fit a narrative. I was responding to that point. You aren't defending JB. My point is JB will say whatever he wants to fit whatever narrative he wants and will use whatever stats he can to defend his narrative.
If he wants to say experience is an issue he can say it but he is ignoring talent. Our issue is more talent than experience.
 
FloridaFan said:
and sometime they do end up getting better
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Unless Edwards or JBA become really good for next year. We will have literally the same issues this year that we will have next year and if we are going to lose 1-2 current players from this team please explain the reason for optimism?
Next season banks on Edwards/JBA being P5 level bigs and Girard/Boeheim becoming better defenders. I am not going to be optimistic until I see it from them.
 
Alsacs said:
I wasn't arguing with you. I was giving a response. KP's stat is being used to fit a narrative. I was responding to that point. You aren't defending JB. My point is JB will say whatever he wants to fit whatever narrative he wants and will use whatever stats he can to defend his narrative.
If he wants to say experience is an issue he can say it but he is ignoring talent. Our issue is more talent than experience.
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You’re dead on again as I find many of your posts to be. :) This was the point of my “alleged” comment that I made relative to that specific KP stat.
 
Arangeman said:
Most of our players that play are old for their year.

Sidibe is a 22 yr old jr
Hughes, Marek and Washington will be 22 in spring
Quincy and Goodine are 20 yr old freshman.

Buddy is 20, Girard 19, which is, or was, standard.
Expand...

It’s minutes though, not age. Game minutes. At least it should be.
 
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