4.53 | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

4.53

longest run last year was 17 yards. longest pass was 9 but when mcf***it only throws bubble screens into triple coverage, what can you do

i'm less sold than others. not saying anything bad about him, i'm just saying i didn't see what other people saw last year

I'm buying. I didn’t see an AA but I saw a kid that had the raw athleticism and play making ability the offense has lacked. The kid was a spindly freshman last year, but tough. I looked at him from a projection standpoint; junior/senior year he’ll be a pretty good offensive player. I can see him taking a leap this year but only if he’s a ‘part’ and not the ‘focus.’

If 17 was his longest run and he averaged 4.3 on 45 carries that’s not bad.
 
Not disappointed at all. I thought it was just a more accurately reported time. 4.53 is blazing fast. I’m so tired of people thinking that’s slow. That time would be as fast as any middie to ever suite up for SU lax team except a few. And there’s always a few true 4.4 kids. But if Erv ran .04 tenths of a second faster – what’s that an eye blink – he’s in the 4.4 range. Much ado about nothing and you don’t need a stop watch to see how football fast he is. For Erv it’s about his ankle breaking cuts and short burst.
I have a simplistic but I think pretty accurate way to rate 40 times as they relate to skill position players in football:

4.9 - slow
4.8 - below average speed
4.7 - average/functional speed
4.6 - above average speed
4.5 - fast
4.4 - very fast
4.3 - blazing fast
4.2 - rare, ridiculous/world class speed

As is pertains to Erv, when you combine his agility, quicks and burst, a 4.53 40 is plenty fast enough to be an impact player in the ACC.
 
I'm buying. I didn’t see an AA but I saw a kid that had the raw athleticism and play making ability the offense has lacked. The kid was a spindly freshman last year, but tough. I looked at him from a projection standpoint; junior/senior year he’ll be a pretty good offensive player. I can see him taking a leap this year but only if he’s a ‘part’ and not the ‘focus.’

If 17 was his longest run and he averaged 4.3 on 45 carries that’s not bad.
that sounds right to me. but it seems like others are hoping for a lot more out of him this year
 
that sounds right to me. but it seems like others are hoping for a lot more out of him this year

I'd agree. Some are expecting Tavon Austin, he's not that.

Speaking of Tavon and 40 times. I'm pretty sure Tavon was an elite sub 4.4 kid but he ran an 11.43 in the 100 meters, which is fast but not elite.
 
Not disappointed at all. I thought it was just a more accurately reported time. 4.53 is blazing fast. I’m so tired of people thinking that’s slow. That time would be as fast as any middie to ever suite up for SU lax team except a few. And there’s always a few true 4.4 kids. But if Erv ran .04 tenths of a second faster – what’s that an eye blink – he’s in the 4.4 range. Much ado about nothing and you don’t need a stop watch to see how football fast he is. For Erv it’s about his ankle breaking cuts and short burst.
I don't think it's slow at all. I just thought of Erv as one of the top 3 fastest players on the team. If that is in fact the case, it would surprise me that we might not have 1 player that truly runs a sub 4.5.
 
Another factor is that you can train to focus on improving the 40 time through work like sprinters do-starts, form, etc. That isn't really relevant to football training, so I don't understand the infatuation with that time. A better indicator would be the time for 10 yards because if you gain a step on someone in that distance, it's going to make it tough for them to catch up.

For reference, Jerry Rice ran what a 4.5, and you can spend hours trying to find clips of him being caught from behind during his 49ers days.
 
Another factor is that you can train to focus on improving the 40 time through work like sprinters do-starts, form, etc. That isn't really relevant to football training, so I don't understand the infatuation with that time. A better indicator would be the time for 10 yards because if you gain a step on someone in that distance, it's going to make it tough for them to catch up.

For reference, Jerry Rice ran what a 4.5, and you can spend hours trying to find clips of him being caught from behind during his 49ers days.
Rice's 40 time was actually a reported 4.59 (supposedly 4.71, but he denies it): http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2...spective/2263a098-32f5-4926-8768-94ca0606c4e5
 
4.53 was Erv Phillips reported 40 time this summer. I know these times mean jack, but was anyone else disappointed? I guess I thought he would've been more in the 4.4-4.45 range for a guy perceived by many to be one of the fastest on the team. This also assumes he had a few runs that day and 4.53 was his best run.
If he ran a 4.53 hand timed, that's fast for a college RB.

If he ran a 4.53 laser timed (like the NFL does it), he's NFL fast. Last year, only 5 RBs had a faster time. Melvin Gordon was 5th fastest with a 4.52, 6th place was a tie for Javorius Allen of USC and Cameron Artis-Payne of Auburn at 4.53. Ameer Abdullah of Nebraska ran a 4.60.

There's guys that run faster but don't have the football skills and don't get invited to the combine.

Folks really don't realize how many RBs there are in the NFL that run a 4.6 or so and have a fine career.

BTW LSU has a true frosh this year (CB) that ran a 4.24 hand timed this summer. Before you dismiss that, he also won the state championship in the 100m with a 10.3 as a senior in high school. The coaches are claiming they want him returning kicks/punts and getting some touches on offense but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't even know who he is after the game. Tough for a true frosh to make much of an impact that early. Name is Donte Jackson if you want to keep an eye on him during the first few games this fall.
 
Most 40 times like every single height and weight measurement are exaggerated but it's all relative. Show your speed on the field.
 
I'd agree. Some are expecting Tavon Austin, he's not that.

Speaking of Tavon and 40 times. I'm pretty sure Tavon was an elite sub 4.4 kid but he ran an 11.43 in the 100 meters, which is fast but not elite.

There is a point where you hit maximum velocity and your body simply cannot go any faster. I'm more interested in amount of time to cover ground covered in a regular play, or 2nd and 3rd gear if we were talking cars. 40 times are like 0-60 times in cars, they're great to look at but how often are you flooring it from a stop light to 60? That's about how often a football player runs 40 yards in a straight line.

I'm all about acceleration which is why I want 10 and 20 yard splits. Austin's 4.34 combine is fast but his 1.5 10 yard and 2.49 20 yard splits are what made his speed elite. If a guy hits 20 yards and in 2.5 seconds it doesn't particularly matter what they cover the next 20 yards in.
 
If he ran a 4.53 hand timed, that's fast for a college RB.

If he ran a 4.53 laser timed (like the NFL does it), he's NFL fast. Last year, only 5 RBs had a faster time. Melvin Gordon was 5th fastest with a 4.52, 6th place was a tie for Javorius Allen of USC and Cameron Artis-Payne of Auburn at 4.53. Ameer Abdullah of Nebraska ran a 4.60.

There's guys that run faster but don't have the football skills and don't get invited to the combine.

Folks really don't realize how many RBs there are in the NFL that run a 4.6 or so and have a fine career.

BTW LSU has a true frosh this year (CB) that ran a 4.24 hand timed this summer. Before you dismiss that, he also won the state championship in the 100m with a 10.3 as a senior in high school. The coaches are claiming they want him returning kicks/punts and getting some touches on offense but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't even know who he is after the game. Tough for a true frosh to make much of an impact that early. Name is Donte Jackson if you want to keep an eye on him during the first few games this fall.

What number is Jackson? I'm just going to go ahead and hope he doesn't make the travel squad vs us.
 
What number is Jackson? I'm just going to go ahead and hope he doesn't make the travel squad vs us.
Number 1. Easy to remember.

Doubt he'll see the field much at CB this year, too much competition. Best shot is special teams and maybe a few jet sweeps on offense.
 
Number 1. Easy to remember.

Doubt he'll see the field much at CB this year, too much competition. Best shot is special teams and maybe a few jet sweeps on offense.

#1 makes sense for a burner. If we don't see him this year, we certainly will in 2017 barring unforeseen circumstances. Perhaps he'll enjoy his trip to SU so much this year and decide he wants to transfer? ;)
 
4.53 was Erv Phillips reported 40 time this summer. I know these times mean jack, but was anyone else disappointed? I guess I thought he would've been more in the 4.4-4.45 range for a guy perceived by many to be one of the fastest on the team. This also assumes he had a few runs that day and 4.53 was his best run.
Maybe he just had pizza before the test. Or they used a different timer (or hand-timed him). Or the turf was different, or he had connie high tops on. (j/k).
 
If he ran a 4.53 hand timed, that's fast for a college RB.

If he ran a 4.53 laser timed (like the NFL does it), he's NFL fast. Last year, only 5 RBs had a faster time. Melvin Gordon was 5th fastest with a 4.52, 6th place was a tie for Javorius Allen of USC and Cameron Artis-Payne of Auburn at 4.53. Ameer Abdullah of Nebraska ran a 4.60.

There's guys that run faster but don't have the football skills and don't get invited to the combine.

Folks really don't realize how many RBs there are in the NFL that run a 4.6 or so and have a fine career.

BTW LSU has a true frosh this year (CB) that ran a 4.24 hand timed this summer. Before you dismiss that, he also won the state championship in the 100m with a 10.3 as a senior in high school. The coaches are claiming they want him returning kicks/punts and getting some touches on offense but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't even know who he is after the game. Tough for a true frosh to make much of an impact that early. Name is Donte Jackson if you want to keep an eye on him during the first few games this fall.
Let's hope we don't remember his name AFTER the game.
 
I ran indoor winter track season in 1988 with the Section III 60meter champion. He went on to finish 3rd in states. He was also our tailback. He ran a 4.51 hand timed 40 yard sprint in the hallway of our high school. My brother also played college football with him and his time remained accurate. I was his foot on foot leverage for the start. My point is, this guy flew on the football field and nobody ever caught him. Yet he "only" ran a 4.5. I don't think people realize how fast that really is and kids always embellish what their actual times are. I always question when someone says 4.5 or 4.6. If I see 4.53 or 4.63 I'm much more confident it is a more accurate time.

Edit: FWIW, I also ran track with our 1987 tailback who went on to start at cornerback at Colgate. He ran a 4.57.
 
First 3 steps determine your time more than anything for a 40. Getting up to speed quickly results in better times. Not so much in a 100. A lot of great 100 meter runners don't get up to speed untill 30 or 40 meters...you see these guys blowing by the field in the second 50. A lot of quick fast 40 guys are out front in a 100 just to get eaten up in the last 50 of a 100 meter run. You have to establish a rhytm and then you can lengthen your stride and a guy like Usain Bolt had an insanely long stride
 
If he ran a 4.53 hand timed, that's fast for a college RB.

If he ran a 4.53 laser timed (like the NFL does it), he's NFL fast. Last year, only 5 RBs had a faster time. Melvin Gordon was 5th fastest with a 4.52, 6th place was a tie for Javorius Allen of USC and Cameron Artis-Payne of Auburn at 4.53. Ameer Abdullah of Nebraska ran a 4.60.

There's guys that run faster but don't have the football skills and don't get invited to the combine.

Folks really don't realize how many RBs there are in the NFL that run a 4.6 or so and have a fine career.

BTW LSU has a true frosh this year (CB) that ran a 4.24 hand timed this summer. Before you dismiss that, he also won the state championship in the 100m with a 10.3 as a senior in high school. The coaches are claiming they want him returning kicks/punts and getting some touches on offense but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't even know who he is after the game. Tough for a true frosh to make much of an impact that early. Name is Donte Jackson if you want to keep an eye on him during the first few games this fall.
Bobby Mitchell always said he could catch Jim Brown at 40 yards, but his initial burst was faster then anyone else. That's the key for a running back or wide receiver, get separation.
 
I ran indoor winter track season in 1988 with the Section III 60meter champion. He went on to finish 3rd in states. He was also our tailback. He ran a 4.51 hand timed 40 yard sprint in the hallway of our high school. My brother also played college football with him and his time remained accurate. I was his foot on foot leverage for the start. My point is, this guy flew on the football field and nobody ever caught him. Yet he "only" ran a 4.5. I don't think people realize how fast that really is and kids always embellish what their actual times are. I always question when someone says 4.5 or 4.6. If I see 4.53 or 4.63 I'm much more confident it is a more accurate time.

Edit: FWIW, I also ran track with our 1987 tailback who went on to start at cornerback at Colgate. He ran a 4.57.

I ran track for Henninger that year...What school did you attend?
 
They broke down Ben Johnson's world record 100 meter run and they timed his FIRST 40 in 4.38 ......
 
Bobby Mitchell always said he could catch Jim Brown at 40 yards, but his initial burst was faster then anyone else. That's the key for a running back or wide receiver, get separation.


Agree. I'm more interested in the 10 yard dash than the 40 yard dash. That's what makes a play successful.

Football games rarely come down to a sprint to the goal line between two fast players. But here's one time it did, one of those things I remember watching from my youth. The Giants had a lightening-fast rookie named Clarence Childs. He was so quick you noticed it immediatley. He seemed to be on 45RPM and everyone else was 33 1/3. Then they played the Cowboys and they assigned Clarence to cover #22. Bob Hayes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=luksa_frank&id=3312940

"The most sincere display of NFL speed Hayes produced occurred in the Cotton Bowl against the New York Giants in 1966. It amounted to a 50-yard duel after Hayes caught a short pass and turned toward the end zone with cornerback Clarence Childs, a world-class sprinter, two strides behind. Off they flew in open field, until Hayes scored without Childs gaining an inch on him.

I asked Bobby after the game if he worried that Childs might catch him. Hayes dismissed the idea as absurd.

"Naw, he's just an ol' 9.3 man,''' he scoffed."

153375986-football-rear-view-of-dallas-cowboys-bob-gettyimages.jpg
 
High school times are notoriously exaggerated. I think some of you are also mistaken with this muscle / weight speed trade off.

Adding muscle doesnt necessarily make you slower just because you've added weight. Depending on where the muscle is going, the power the added muscle provides is likely to more then offset the negative speed effect of the weight. This is why sprinters lift weights. Now if you go all frat boy juicy and just try to build up puffy pecs and triceps...while neglecting hip flexors and core...then it probably will slow u down.
 

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