8/17/15 Practice # 9

[javadoc]

This is really just my frustration over Shafer's unwillingness to go for it on 4th down. It's too risky to line up with your offense and attempt to gain short yardage, but instead you resort to trickery where your punter becomes the playmaker. I hate everything about that approach.

What if the scenario is 4th and 9 from the 25?

 

[TheCusian]

This is really just my frustration over Shafer's unwillingness to go for it on 4th down. It's too risky to line up with your offense and attempt to gain short yardage, but instead you resort to trickery where your punter becomes the playmaker. I hate everything about that approach.

Longest play from scrimmage vs ND last season was the Dixon fake punt. Don't want to rely on it - and I get that it's not sexy - but there is a time and a place.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Ugh, can they stop with this fake field goal nonsense? Just line up with your offense and go for it (like you are supposed to anyway). Put the ball in the hands of a playmaker, not your punter. I am not sure I like anything about the way Shafer thinks.

This is really just my frustration over Shafer's unwillingness to go for it on 4th down. It's too risky to line up with your offense and attempt to gain short yardage, but instead you resort to trickery where your punter becomes the playmaker. I hate everything about that approach.

So you'd never practice it because you'd never call it, I gather?

 

[donniesyracuse]

So you'd never practice it because you'd never call it, I gather?

Correct!

 

[Finwad32]

This is really just my frustration over Shafer's unwillingness to go for it on 4th down. It's too risky to line up with your offense and attempt to gain short yardage, but instead you resort to trickery where your punter becomes the playmaker. I hate everything about that approach.

Understandable, you have a philosophy in regards to your approach in these situations. I guarantee you though, every college football program in America has some type of ST's trickery up their sleeve. They may not have to utilize it as much or decide to never utilize it, but, it's there.

 

[PhatOrange]

Can I buy that?

 

[donniesyracuse]

What if the scenario is 4th and 9 from the 25?

If I need the field goal, I will kick the field goal. If I need a first down, I will run an offensive play and let my QB throw the pass.

 

[PhatOrange]

This is the first pic I've seen of Denzel Ward and to my eye he looks slimmed down.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Correct!

Wouldn't the defense need practice covering it if there are other coaches who would choose to run it?

 

[ImperialOrange]

This is really just my frustration over Shafer's unwillingness to go for it on 4th down. It's too risky to line up with your offense and attempt to gain short yardage, but instead you resort to trickery where your punter becomes the playmaker. I hate everything about that approach.

In truth, we should be hoping to not be repeatedly faced with 4th down. :noidea:

 

[cuseguy]

This is the first pic I've seen of Denzel Ward and to my eye he looks slimmed down.

Believe he lost 8 pounds.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Wouldn't the defense need practice covering it if there are other coaches who would choose to run it?

Fair enough; I guess my problem is not so much with practicing it; it is that Shafer will use it in a situation where he should not be lining up for a field goal anyway.

 

[RoatanCuse]

What if the scenario is 4th and 9 from the 25?

FG?

 

[Jake]

If it were meant to be a surprise, they never would have run it during the open part of the practice. Every coach has to prepare for it now each week.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[orangefog]

Nice, the kid is a burner too, isn't he?

 

[donniesyracuse]

If it were meant to be a surprise, they never would have run it during the open part of the practice. Every coach has to prepare for it now each week.

A field goal block unit should always be prepared for a fake. I have a hard time believing opposing coaches lose sleep over Shafer's special teams trickery.

 

[LAOrange]

Correct!

Just saying you have it in your playbook makes the other team spend valuable time practicing for it. By actually running it successfully in the beginning of the season hurts the later teams even more; because, the big guys believe you have to resort to trickery to beat them. So, they spend a full practice defending trick plays.

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[CuseLegacy]

They are on their way to Drum.

 

[donniesyracuse]

So, they spend a full practice defending trick plays.

Ha, do you think you could be overstating the potential impact a bit? How many times does a team need to practice defending a fake field goal? Would Syracuse be the only team on an opponent's schedule that might run a fake field goal?

Maybe there is some truth to it, but I find the idea of an opponent spending all day practicing to defend against a Shafer-fake-field-goal hilarious. I wonder if it is difficult to find the right athlete to mimic Dixon's agility and passing touch in practice.

Anyway, again, I overreacted to the notion of practicing the fake field goal. My main problem is with Shafer's 4th down philosophy. On the rare occasion that he deviates from his stubborn refusal to go for it on 4th down, his weapons of choice are trickery and Riley Dixon. I am not on-board with that.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Ha, do you think you could be overstating the potential impact a bit? How many times does a team need to practice defending a fake field goal? Would Syracuse be the only team on an opponent's schedule that might run a fake field goal?

Maybe there is some truth to it, but I find the idea of an opponent spending all day practicing to defend against a Shafer-fake-field-goal hilarious. I wonder if it is difficult to find the right athlete to mimic Dixon's agility and passing touch in practice.

Anyway, again, I overreacted to the notion of practicing the fake field goal. My main problem is with Shafer's 4th down philosophy. On the rare occasion that he deviates from his stubborn refusal to go for it on 4th down, his weapons of choice are trickery and Riley Dixon. I am not on-board with that.

Last year the offense was compromised at both the QB position as well as the O line. The defense was also pretty good. Shafer was playing to the team's strengths and playing the field position game as many SU coaches before him have. I'm sure that's why you didn't see much confidence with the offense on 4th down. Hopefully if the line stays healthy and we have solid backs behind them, more risks will be taken. Anyone remember Moose Johnston punting on 3rd down during the Mac era? It happened more than once!

 

[donniesyracuse]

Hopefully if the line stays healthy and we have solid backs behind them, more risks will be taken.

I reject the notion that making choices that increase a teams probability of winning is "risky" behavior. It's that mischaracterization of the 4th down decision that has permeated meathead coach thinking for decades. The only justification for ignoring probabilities is that coaches always have and still do. That is a terrible reason to do anything in my opinion.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

I reject the notion that making choices that increase a teams probability of winning is "risky" behavior. It's that mischaracterization of the 4th down decision that has permeated meathead coach thinking for decades. The only justification for ignoring probabilities is that coaches always have and still do. That is a terrible reason to do anything in my opinion.

I can't say if Coach Shafer would characterize it as risky or not. It was just the word I chose to use. I reject the notion that coaches don't make choices to increase the probability that they will win. If they think something will help them win, no matter who the coach is, I'd have to imagine they'd do it. Whether that's calling certain plays, using a certain formation, or personnel groupings. As Herm Edwards once said, "You play to win the game". If a coach isn't trying to win, he's in the wrong business.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I reject the notion that coaches don't make choices to increase the probability that they will win. If they think something will help them win, no matter who the coach is, I'd have to imagine they'd do it. Whether that's calling certain plays, using a certain formation, or personnel groupings.

I am talking about mathematical probabilities. They all choose to ignore them.