A few thoughts on Tyler Roberson...

[El Jefe Syr]

I remember in the lead up to the 02-03 season the sophomore edition of Hak was being anticipated much like Roberson was for this season. In our first game in 02-03 against Memphis Hak pressed and played poorly. Over the course of the nonconference season he calmed down, built confidence, and developed into the perfect Forward compliment to Melo.

I think Roberson felt the weight of similar expectations during the Carleton game. My advice would be to reevaluate this in a month or two.

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

He was getting a spirited talking to, but it looked more like coaching than just flat out yelling at a guy. I think JB knows how to handle the guys even if to us it may not look like it sometimes. I hope TR gets some confidence because, if nothing else, we will need his rebounding.

Frankly, one of the big differences in our team's excellent run over the past few years has been really getting control of that corner three ball. I understand JB being pretty vehement on training guys to cover that better. It was foolishly wide open all first half. To me that was one big advantage of playing Carleton. A team that will find a weakness like that and can exploit it. Excellent tape was generated for our players to learn from.

Its amazing to me how the forwards (particularly Roberson) are being blamed for being out of position and unable to cover the corner three when they often have to move over to defend the free-throw extended three because the starting perimeter players are too slow to recover. Maybe I am watching a different game than most.

 

[jordoo]

Its amazing to me how the forwards (particularly Roberson) are being blamed for being out of position and unable to cover the corner three when they often have to move over to defend the free-throw extended three because the starting perimeter players are too slow to recover. Maybe I am watching a different game than most.

Scheme. The wing is to pick up the ft line extended hand off to the guard and back off to the wing again. Its one of the hardest things to master in the zone. Chris and Tyler were staying with the FT line extended guy well after the guard engaged.

 

[realorange]

Its amazing to me how the forwards (particularly Roberson) are being blamed for being out of position and unable to cover the corner three when they often have to move over to defend the free-throw extended three because the starting perimeter players are too slow to recover. Maybe I am watching a different game than most.

You have 3 pt shooters like Carlton on the wing and you'd better be out there or ask Roberson where you go.

 

[Flacusian]

Back when Tyler committed to the Orange, I was struck by how nervous he looked at his "press conference". Even in the preseason videos put up on Syracuse.com, he seems very shy and soft-spoken...especially for such a highly rated recruit.

Fast forward to the game on Sunday and it appears that he will be the one to call JB's doghouse home this year. Whereas guys like Scoop and Rakeem had the demeanor/attitude to deal with this, I don't know if Tyler does.

Anyone else notice this?

Lawrinson... SPOT ON! I've felt the same way. It's just like early on with Rak he never seemed to play with attitude. There were several times when he came into the game and was P'ed off and suddenly he would show a glimmer of the type of player we've needed him to be.
Talent aside, players need to have a particular state of mind too. Body + Mind= the type of player you will be. Dion was swagger to the extreme... Brandon was another example of this. Physically he had most all the tools. But but oftentimes he seemed mechanical or almost wooden and didn't seem to be in touch with his passion to play.

There can be no mistake about Roberson having the tools and ability physically to be an elite college player but it remains to be seen if he can get his inner tiger to roar.

 

[bballbeadle]

There can be no mistake about Roberson having the tools and ability physically to be an elite college player but it remains to be seen if he can get his inner tiger to roar.[/QUOTE]

QUACK!

 

[Cowtown]

Its amazing to me how the forwards (particularly Roberson) are being blamed for being out of position and unable to cover the corner three when they often have to move over to defend the free-throw extended three because the starting perimeter players are too slow to recover. Maybe I am watching a different game than most.

"Hold on thar, BabaLooey!"

The wing rotation is the key to how the SU defense works. I'll try to be lucid.

Two rules: 1.) with every pass, every player moves; 2.) defend the 3

So: ball comes up the middle of the floor; guards do not allow entry to high post.

• Ball to wing; G1 pops out to defend ball, G2 fronts high post; W3 defends corner; 5 defends low post/short corner; W4 sags to "the hole"
  
• The offense will invariably skip-pass to their off ball wing; so W4 (in the hole) must pop back out to that wing, until the G2 gets over, then the wing slides down to defend the corner; G1 comes across to front high post at the new ball side elbow. W3 now sags into "the hole." (mirror image).
• If the ball does make it into the high post, 5 comes to defend, W3 and W4 must collapse to the low blocks.
  
• The key to making the whole thing work is knowing your job, but also recognizing it early enough to respond.
• There are traps, etc, and a few other wrinkles, but that's the basic idea.

So now, I'm guessing what you're getting at is how some teams, after watching film, will try to screen the weak side wing (in the hole) as they skip/reverse the ball, and at the same time leak a shooter out to the wing. The answer is the winger in the hole must have his "head on a swivel" and not allow himself to get screened inside on the reverse. He can then get to a perimeter shooter while the defense re-positions. It's a tough job, but if you're 6-7 or 6-8 and play at SU, you better be able to do it.

The other thing is that when the O skips the ball over to the opposite wing, G2 is very easily screened because he was fronting the high post. Again it's a tough job to get around it, but if you're 6-3 and play at SU, you better be able to do it. Triche, MCW and AR were particularly good at this, and SU was very successful while they played those spots.

 

[Rossco123]

"Hold on thar, BabaLooey!"

The wing rotation is the key to how the SU defense works. I'll try to be lucid.

Two rules: 1.) with every pass, every player moves; 2.) defend the 3

So: ball comes up the middle of the floor; guards do not allow entry to high post.

• Ball to wing; G1 pops out to defend ball, G2 fronts high post; W3 defends corner; 5 defends low post/short corner; W4 sags to "the hole"
  
• The offense will invariably skip-pass to their off ball wing; so W4 (in the hole) must pop back out to that wing, until the G2 gets over, then the wing slides down to defend the corner; G1 comes across to front high post at the new ball side elbow. W3 now sags into "the hole." (mirror image).
• If the ball does make it into the high post, 5 comes to defend, W3 and W4 must collapse to the low blocks.
  
• The key to making the whole thing work is knowing your job, but also recognizing it early enough to respond.
• There are traps, etc, and a few other wrinkles, but that's the basic idea.

So now, I'm guessing what you're getting at is how some teams, after watching film, will try to screen the weak side wing (in the hole) as they skip/reverse the ball, and at the same time leak a shooter out to the wing. The answer is the winger in the hole must have his "head on a swivel" and not allow himself to get screened inside on the reverse. He can then get to a perimeter shooter while the defense re-positions. It's a tough job, but if you're 6-7 or 6-8 and play at SU, you better be able to do it.

The other thing is that when the O skips the ball over to the opposite wing, G2 is very easily screened because he was fronting the high post. Again it's a tough job to get around it, but if you're 6-3 and play at SU, you better be able to do it. Triche, MCW and AR were particularly good at this, and SU was very successful while they played those spots.

I completely agree.
Also the wing in the hole will get blocked from time to time and the 5 (sometimes the offside wing) has to get the corner shooter. This often happens early in a game against a team that has practiced against the 2-3 all week. Later in the game most of this is forgotten and they try to hit a big sliding down the key.
The whole thing knowing and executing your slides and watching for the 2 on 1 situations that the offence continually tries to establish. Most players take 2 to 3 years to do this well.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

I'm unsure but I have this weird "Day in the Life" ahhhhhhhhhhhh-ahhhhh-ahhh-ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh -ahhhhhh-ah-ahhh-ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-ahhh-ahhhaaaa sort floaty feeling to my vague recollection.

welcome to my life my friend...lol

 

[Jack Hall]

Am I the only one who thinks Roberson is NOT in the doghouse? He played what? 15 minutes in a preseason game.

He got yelled at because he made defensive mistakes. Most other guys did as well and they got yelled at too.

He got the early hook, not because he's in the doghouse, but because that's his role this year. Token starter.

Was Triche in the doghouse his freshman year? Was Melo? . Was Christmas? You get my point. Boeheim likes having a young guy wet his feet as a token starter. It does not mean they are in the doghouse.

When Roberson stops making mistakes he will stop getting yelled at. This has nothing to do with shyness or nerves, and everything to do with film study and hard work.

It was only one game (exhib.) but what i saw in that one game is that McC and G are not only a little more skilled than TRob but also those guys seemed more aware of what their roles within the SU offense/defense are. If thats true, TRob is in a tough spot and i agree with you he will basically be a token starter. I do think hes in a tough spot, McC is 6 10 and athletic, going to be tough for TRob to be as effective inside. And then clearly G is more effective on the perimeter, probably the wing too (if TRob is going to get a lot of mins hes going to have to get it done on the wing and the high post- thats where i see his role is). Lets hope he can up his game and figure out his role better (as you say study a lot of film and work hard) quite soon.

 

[Jack Hall]

"Hold on thar, BabaLooey!"

The wing rotation is the key to how the SU defense works. I'll try to be lucid.

Two rules: 1.) with every pass, every player moves; 2.) defend the 3

So: ball comes up the middle of the floor; guards do not allow entry to high post.

• Ball to wing; G1 pops out to defend ball, G2 fronts high post; W3 defends corner; 5 defends low post/short corner; W4 sags to "the hole"
  
• The offense will invariably skip-pass to their off ball wing; so W4 (in the hole) must pop back out to that wing, until the G2 gets over, then the wing slides down to defend the corner; G1 comes across to front high post at the new ball side elbow. W3 now sags into "the hole." (mirror image).
• If the ball does make it into the high post, 5 comes to defend, W3 and W4 must collapse to the low blocks.
  
• The key to making the whole thing work is knowing your job, but also recognizing it early enough to respond.
• There are traps, etc, and a few other wrinkles, but that's the basic idea.

So now, I'm guessing what you're getting at is how some teams, after watching film, will try to screen the weak side wing (in the hole) as they skip/reverse the ball, and at the same time leak a shooter out to the wing. The answer is the winger in the hole must have his "head on a swivel" and not allow himself to get screened inside on the reverse. He can then get to a perimeter shooter while the defense re-positions. It's a tough job, but if you're 6-7 or 6-8 and play at SU, you better be able to do it.

The other thing is that when the O skips the ball over to the opposite wing, G2 is very easily screened because he was fronting the high post. Again it's a tough job to get around it, but if you're 6-3 and play at SU, you better be able to do it. Triche, MCW and AR were particularly good at this, and SU was very successful while they played those spots.

Very good post, but i disagree w one bullet pt:

• If the ball does make it into the high post, 5 comes to defend, W3 and W4 mustcollapse to the low block.

I think this is part of any young forwards problem in learning JBs zone. I actually dont think the forwards MUST collapse. I think it will be HUGE this year for SU for Rak has to handle most of the centers (or whoever gets it in the high post) one on one. Ie the key to our defense is that Rak will NOT need help in the high post and the forwards can focus on defending the wings, baseline and rebounding. I think this is part of the mistakes TRob and McC were making, they were collapsing to the middle when it wasnt necessary and that left wide open 3s on the wings. Obviously they also struggled when Carl. overloaded two guys on their wing , they closed too aggressively on the first guy and werent able to recover to the second guy nearly quickly enough. I think they ll figure it out much better as time goes by.

 

[jordoo]

Excellent breakdown of the zone mechanics Cow and Jack Hall! Good reading and I think Rakeem should be able to handle the highpost himself as far as keeping the guy infront of him and either forcing a pass or a jumper which is what you want so long as the pass isn't to a wide open baseline cutter but again that gets into the wings knowing where they need to be in relation to the ball and where the offensive players are.

 

[OttoMets]

Back when Tyler committed to the Orange, I was struck by how nervous he looked at his "press conference". Even in the preseason videos put up on Syracuse.com, he seems very shy and soft-spoken...especially for such a highly rated recruit.

Fast forward to the game on Sunday and it appears that he will be the one to call JB's doghouse home this year. Whereas guys like Scoop and Rakeem had the demeanor/attitude to deal with this, I don't know if Tyler does.

Anyone else notice this?

I agree but would categorize Rakeem with the Forths, Robersons, and Paul Harrises who didn't take the quick trigger and berating style of teaching well.

Hate to see the one-size-fits-all method of educating end up wearing down a good kid and great talent. Hopefully Roberson gets more comfortable with it (as Christmas has), because that style's not going to change.

 

[OttoMets]

Its amazing to me how the forwards (particularly Roberson) are being blamed for being out of position and unable to cover the corner three when they often have to move over to defend the free-throw extended three because the starting perimeter players are too slow to recover. Maybe I am watching a different game than most.

I agree; Christmas got crushed for this for two years, often while picking up a slow teammate.

To be fair, though, Roberson made some putrid mistakes on Sunday. Yanking him for a teaching moment was reasonable. Given his reaction to this throughout last season and against Carleton, however, barking at him through a full timeout and sitting him for extended stretches is counterproductive and unreasonable.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That would be a great way to go out, settle down, get comfortable, and get his sea legs. The offense will come.

Maybe, but we can't afford to play 4 on 5. If you're going to be out there, you've got to be a threat to score.

 

[br801]

Ah, I remember the good old days when we didn't start psychoanalyzing our players until the season actually started.

 

[tee1222]

Really good article here about the process of learning and building confidence
http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2014/11/post_17.html
We'll get there, fellow Broheims, lady Broheims. We always do.