A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Making the I81 Decision...

[sutomcat]

How CNY lawmakers got Gov. Cuomo to put a tunnel back in the options for new I-81

 

[Orijinal]

Man, I hope this happens. Best of both worlds. But I have my doubts after reading that 3 tunnel options were studied and the feasibility of all 3 were declined. But maybe, just maybe ...

 

[SU68]

A tunnel wouldn't be the best economic choice, but just think how dry the road surface would be in the winter!

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Good Lord, someone just make a decision already.

 

[IthacaMatt]

How CNY lawmakers got Gov. Cuomo to put a tunnel back in the options for new I-81

It's all Congel money. They want to keep 81 going through the city so it's easy for people south of the City to get to the mall.

A tunnel is a terrible choice. It's going to be very costly to maintain and it's going to require a lot of infrastructure that's going to turn that stretch of the North Side into something even worse than it is right now.

Rochester used to have a tunnel around their downtown, and they recently filled it in and returned it to city streets. Getting rid of the elevated highway will improve the value of a lot of unused land downtown.

And to keep the elevated highway through downtown, we are going to have to widen it and make the lane transitions much safer. It's going to require tearing down something like 27 additional buildings downtown to make it feasible.

You HAVE to let 81 northbound run to a point a little north of Brighton Ave, and then go down to street level about a quarter mile from Adams St. From there, it becomes local streets.

Southbound from north of the City, you terminate 81 South around the mall, where it is right now. Through traffic will be routed on 481, and they should finally create a connection between 81 North and 690 West that loops around Onondaga Hill toward Fairmount.

 

[Fly Rodder]

With a few exceptions, tunnels are just a horrible idea, but politicians love them.

 

[Ringostar57]

Will the 10 year "big dig" come to the Cuse? Think about it, years of kickbacks, billions for the taking. Boston some 3 billion couldn't be accounted for. LMAO.

 

[retro44]

I'm hearing and just today Preet is chasing down Cuomo real fast,probably will not be around to make this decision.

 

[retro44]

Will the 10 year "big dig" come to the Cuse? Think about it, years of kickbacks, billions for the taking. Boston some 3 billion couldn't be accounted for. LMAO.

Bechtel was the contractor and their Washington connections were just two strong at the right time. I was working in Boston in 2001.

 

[Noexcuse]

I'm hearing Stephanie Minor is against this unless at least 75% of the tunnel work goes to local contractors.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Will the 10 year "big dig" come to the Cuse? Think about it, years of kickbacks, billions for the taking. Boston some 3 billion couldn't be accounted for. LMAO.

Exactly! The only reason some people are pushing for the tunnel is because they see it as an opportunity to make millions.

 

[CIL]

It's all Congel money. They want to keep 81 going through the city so it's easy for people south of the City to get to the mall.

A tunnel is a terrible choice. It's going to be very costly to maintain and it's going to require a lot of infrastructure that's going to turn that stretch of the North Side into something even worse than it is right now.

Rochester used to have a tunnel around their downtown, and they recently filled it in and returned it to city streets. Getting rid of the elevated highway will improve the value of a lot of unused land downtown.

And to keep the elevated highway through downtown, we are going to have to widen it and make the lane transitions much safer. It's going to require tearing down something like 27 additional buildings downtown to make it feasible.

You HAVE to let 81 northbound run to a point a little north of Brighton Ave, and then go down to street level about a quarter mile from Adams St. From there, it becomes local streets.

Southbound from north of the City, you terminate 81 South around the mall, where it is right now. Through traffic will be routed on 481, and they should finally create a connection between 81 North and 690 West that loops around Onondaga Hill toward Fairmount.

I'm pretty sure Rochester did not have a tunnel, but a Highway loop that cut off the entire downtown area. Talk about idiotic.

I do not live in Syracuse, but 81 going right through the city is ridiculous.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm pretty sure Rochester did not have a tunnel, but a Highway loop that cut off the entire downtown area. Talk about idiotic.

I do not live in Syracuse, but 81 going right through the city is ridiculous.

half and half. it wasn't a tunnel but it wasn't at street level. they had to fill it in with an incredible amount of dirt. and they're having trouble selling the new land, i think. (you guys complaining about miner should get a load of lovely warren)

building a tunnel is nuts in my opinion

 

[Orangello]

The Rochester Inner Loop project

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/business/old-highway-paves-road-for-recovery-in-rochester.html

 

[texascpa]

Good Lord, someone just make a decision already.

Don't you love government. They've probably spent as much on the studies over the last four years as the cost of whatever replacement they decide on.

Kidding...sorta

 

[OrangePA]

It's all Congel money. They want to keep 81 going through the city so it's easy for people south of the City to get to the mall.

A tunnel is a terrible choice. It's going to be very costly to maintain and it's going to require a lot of infrastructure that's going to turn that stretch of the North Side into something even worse than it is right now.

Rochester used to have a tunnel around their downtown, and they recently filled it in and returned it to city streets. Getting rid of the elevated highway will improve the value of a lot of unused land downtown.

And to keep the elevated highway through downtown, we are going to have to widen it and make the lane transitions much safer. It's going to require tearing down something like 27 additional buildings downtown to make it feasible.

You HAVE to let 81 northbound run to a point a little north of Brighton Ave, and then go down to street level about a quarter mile from Adams St. From there, it becomes local streets.

Southbound from north of the City, you terminate 81 South around the mall, where it is right now. Through traffic will be routed on 481, and they should finally create a connection between 81 North and 690 West that loops around Onondaga Hill toward Fairmount.

Isn't it true that the Chiefs' stadium was not built downtown because Congel insisted that it remain adjacent to his Mall?

Not putting the stadium downtown was a horrible mistake in my opinion.

Not leveling the Route 81 via duct would be another bad mistake - and it seems that a tunnel is just not necessary or cost effective.

 

[Sudano]

I live in Rochester and it was not a tunnel nor was it entirely below street level and it is not the entire 'inner loop' that's being filled in and they are not having a hard time selling it.
They are filling in a 2/3 of a mile portion of the 'inner loop' on the east side of downtown that's the economically advantaged where mansions line East Ave and the hip part of town Park Ave is not far away. Its providing 5 large parcels of acreage of street level develop-able land for more apartments and businesses and possible enhancements to the Museum of Play.
The first couple of parcels were open to bid and 3 of them have advanced to the next level of being analyzed.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Isn't it true that the Chiefs' stadium was not built downtown because Congel insisted that it remain adjacent to his Mall?

Not putting the stadium downtown was a horrible mistake in my opinion.

Not leveling the Route 81 via duct would be another bad mistake - and it seems that a tunnel is just not necessary or cost effective.

If adjacent is about a mile away.

 

[sutomcat]

Isn't it true that the Chiefs' stadium was not built downtown because Congel insisted that it remain adjacent to his Mall?

Not putting the stadium downtown was a horrible mistake in my opinion.

Not leveling the Route 81 via duct would be another bad mistake - and it seems that a tunnel is just not necessary or cost effective.

I think it was more because Michael Bragman didn't want the stadium moved from his district. He was the CNY power broker back then and he pushed hard to keep it there. I think he was thrown out of office for corruption shortly afterwards.

I was told racism also played a significant role. The Simones didn't want the stadium downtown because they were concerned they would have to deal with a lot of black kids trying to get into games.

Horrible political leadership, no vision for the future. At the time, every city in the country seemed to be moving their ballpark downtown to maximize the economic impact and help turn around blighted areas. Except Syracuse.

Some things never change around here.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I think it was more because Michael Bragman didn't want the stadium moved from his district. He was the CNY power broker back then and he pushed hard to keep it there. I think he was thrown out of office for corruption shortly afterwards.

I was told racism also played a significant role. The Simones didn't want the stadium downtown because they were concerned they would have to deal with a lot of black kids trying to get into games.

Horrible political leadership, no vision for the future. At the time, every city in the country seemed to be moving their ballpark downtown to maximize the economic impact and help turn around blighted areas. Except Syracuse.

Some things never change around here.

Yes to all of those things but certainly Bobby C had something to do with it. One of the worst decisions ever made by the politicians. They had a chance the make the stadium apart of downtown. It would have increased attendence and increased economic spending being in close proximity to armory square. I'll be honest i hate going to the baseball stadium, i think the surroundings are ugly and it has zero character. Major f-up that we will have to live with for another 50 years

 

[FrancoPizza]

I want the most expensive option whichever that is. State and federal $ will either be spent here or somewhere else. An extra billion is pennies on the dollar if you're concerned about your wallet.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think it was more because Michael Bragman didn't want the stadium moved from his district. He was the CNY power broker back then and he pushed hard to keep it there. I think he was thrown out of office for corruption shortly afterwards.

I was told racism also played a significant role. The Simones didn't want the stadium downtown because they were concerned they would have to deal with a lot of black kids trying to get into games.

Horrible political leadership, no vision for the future. At the time, every city in the country seemed to be moving their ballpark downtown to maximize the economic impact and help turn around blighted areas. Except Syracuse.

Some things never change around here.

Bragman tried a coup in the state Senate, then didn't run again.

 

[tbonezone]

how about a tunnel under the salmon river at the i-81 north exit at pulaski ? every poor uninformed soul who stops for a quick bathroom break has to drive 5 miles out of their way to try to search out a path back to 81.
it could be made of glass like those sea world tunnels where the salmon are swimming and spawning all around you.

 

[FrancoPizza]

how about a tunnel under the salmon river at the i-81 north exit at pulaski ? every poor uninformed soul who stops for a quick bathroom break has to drive 5 miles out of their way to try to search out a path back to 81.
it could be made of glass like those sea world tunnels where the salmon are swimming and spawning all around you.

Or we could have a glass tunnel under Onondaga lake and see what everyone had for dinner last night.

 

[shandeezy7]

I think it was more because Michael Bragman didn't want the stadium moved from his district. He was the CNY power broker back then and he pushed hard to keep it there. I think he was thrown out of office for corruption shortly afterwards.

I was told racism also played a significant role. The Simones didn't want the stadium downtown because they were concerned they would have to deal with a lot of black kids trying to get into games.

Horrible political leadership, no vision for the future. At the time, every city in the country seemed to be moving their ballpark downtown to maximize the economic impact and help turn around blighted areas. Except Syracuse.

Some things never change around here.

Exactly, and I fear that the dolts in charge of this decision will bow to the pressure (coming almost entirely from those who don't live in the city) and opt for the status quo. It will be the final death knell of the city.