A quick comment about Wichita State | Syracusefan.com

A quick comment about Wichita State

cliftonparksufan

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I don't think they are going to lose a game the rest of the way through their regular season and conference tourney. In fact they will probably be double digit favorites in every game until the NCAA. People don't want to give the Shockers a lot of props but even with nine losses they did get to the Final Four last year. Looking at Wichita State's run to the Final Four last year: They were a #9 seed and they beat #8 Pitt in the opening round, then #1 Gonzaga, then # 13 LaSalle and #2 Ohio State. You could argue that wasn't murderer's row but in the semi's they lost to eventual champ Louisville by only four.

If Syracuse does end up losing a game I would have no problem voting Wichita State as the one. Do I think they are the best team? No, but I think they would deserve the number one vote based on last years NCAA's tournament and this years record. Besides you have to root for Cleanthony Early because he is an upstate kid (sort of) who came out of nowhere and has done pretty well.

http://nypost.com/2014/02/10/wichita-state-jockeying-for-undefeated-season-and-respect/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-c...news/20130328/wichita-state-cleanthony-early/
http://www.jucorecruiting.com/catching-up-with-cleanthony-early/
 
problem being is that i can probably name 9 teams that if they'd played wichita's schedule would also be undefeated. sucks for them but you simply can't reward teams for scheduling such lightweights. it'd just be detrimental to the sport as a whole if dodging became the new strategy.
 
I don't think they are going to lose a game the rest of the way through their regular season and conference tourney. In fact they will probably be double digit favorites in every game until the NCAA. People don't want to give the Shockers a lot of props but even with nine losses they did get to the Final Four last year. Looking at Wichita State's run to the Final Four last year: They were a #9 seed and they beat #8 Pitt in the opening round, then #1 Gonzaga, then # 13 LaSalle and #2 Ohio State. You could argue that wasn't murderer's row but in the semi's they lost to eventual champ Louisville by only four.

If Syracuse does end up losing a game I would have no problem voting Wichita State as the one. Do I think they are the best team? No, but I think they would deserve the number one vote based on last years NCAA's tournament and this years record. Besides you have to root for Cleanthony Early because he is an upstate kid (sort of) who came out of nowhere and has done pretty well.

http://nypost.com/2014/02/10/wichita-state-jockeying-for-undefeated-season-and-respect/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-c...news/20130328/wichita-state-cleanthony-early/
http://www.jucorecruiting.com/catching-up-with-cleanthony-early/

Current ranking is based only on what you have done THIS year. Pretty sure WSU lost a few key players from last year's team so you can't even say they are as good as they were last year. Based on who they have played and beaten, I am not sure they even deserve to be in the top 4. Looking at their schedule, they have played and beaten exactly 1 top 25 team(St. Louis) and again only 1 team on their schedule is pretty much a lock to play in the NCAA' tourn. That is an unbelievably pathetic resume for any top 5-10 team. On top of that, they have not exactly looked like world beaters in that sorry conf they play in. Wichita State is a decent team but I will be really surprised if they make it past the sweet sixteen this year.
 
problem being is that i can probably name 9 teams that if they'd played wichita's schedule would also be undefeated. sucks for them but you simply can't reward teams for scheduling such lightweights. it'd just be detrimental to the sport as a whole if dodging became the new strategy.
So if we had a loss who do you vote for? Florida? Arizona? Syracuse?
 
first off arizona should drop like a stone. i'd say 10th. HAD we lost to ncst why then yes florida should have hopped us.
seriously. as an AD how would you load up your schedule if you knew you could skate by to a #1 seed playing nobody?
 
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problem being is that i can probably name 9 teams that if they'd played wichita's schedule would also be undefeated. sucks for them but you simply can't reward teams for scheduling such lightweights. it'd just be detrimental to the sport as a whole if dodging became the new strategy.

the question is who wants to schedule them? what good does it do them to schedule top teams who will only play them at home?
 
So if we had a loss who do you vote for? Florida? Arizona? Syracuse?

If we had lost to NCSt I think the voters would have 1) Florida, 2) Wichita State, 3) Arizona, 4) SU.

But we didn't lose, so it doesn't matter. ;)

The same scenario won't necessarily be in place next week if let's say we beat BC, but lose to Duke.

Cheers,
Neil
 
Just win baby just win....especially in March to April 7th. In memory of another April 7th in CUSE history.
 
first off arizona should drop like a stone. i'd say 10th. HAD we lost to ncst why then yes florida should have hopped us.
seriously. as an AD how would you load up your schedule if you knew you could skate by to a #1 seed playing nobody?

I think the pollsters have a higher regard for ASU than you do. It was a terribly played game and both teams looked awful, but they won't penalize AZ that much for a 2OT loss at archrival ASU.

Cheers,
Neil
 
WSU is a great team. I think any Syracuse fan that was in Atlanta to watch them take on Lville would be able to tell you that. They have some amazing players and a great coach. Totally deserving of any high seed or rank they receive.
 
omniorange said:
If we had lost to NCSt I think the voters would have 1) Florida, 2) Wichita State, 3) Arizona, 4) SU. But we didn't lose, so it doesn't matter. ;) The same scenario won't necessarily be in place next week if let's say we beat BC, but lose to Duke. Cheers, Neil

I don't see how you place the two loss teams ahead of one with one defeat. Especially when one of the teams picked up a L that week too. Fortunately it's moot.
 
omniorange said:
If we had lost to NCSt I think the voters would have 1) Florida, 2) Wichita State, 3) Arizona, 4) SU. But we didn't lose, so it doesn't matter. ;) The same scenario won't necessarily be in place next week if let's say we beat BC, but lose to Duke. Cheers, Neil

Why would Az be ahead if us? They lost this week too.
 
WSU is a great team. I think any Syracuse fan that was in Atlanta to watch them take on Lville would be able to tell you that. They have some amazing players and a great coach. Totally deserving of any high seed or rank they receive.
I think they're good but the statement it would make, with their D-2 schedule, is not good for CBB.
 
Why would Az be ahead if us? They lost this week too.

Perhaps they would not. But then, I don't have as much faith in the voters common sense as you do. ;)

Cheers,
Neil
 
problem being is that i can probably name 9 teams that if they'd played wichita's schedule would also be undefeated. sucks for them but you simply can't reward teams for scheduling such lightweights. it'd just be detrimental to the sport as a whole if dodging became the new strategy.

9 teams?

I know St. Louis is some bush league mid-major team in your eyes, but if the top 15 teams played in the country for one game at St. Louis. how many would win? In reality it would be about half. That would knock out a lot of teams. This is not to say that Wichita St is better than those teams because they beat St. Louis and others did not in this "assumed" game. It merely goes to show that running the table on a moderate schedule is still difficult.

Good teams have lost to moderate teams this year.

Arizona lost Cal and ASU.
San Diego St lost to Wyoming
Duke lost to Clemson and Notre Dome
Michigan St lost at home to Nebraska
Cincy lost to New Mexico and Xavier
Iowa St lost to West Virginia

To act like a whole bunch of teams would not slip up just once is really stretching it.

There would be a whole many teams with 1 or 2 losses, no doubt. And some of those teams with 1 loss would be better than Wichita St. There is an element of luck (beyond skill and talent) of going undefeated. Other top 15 teams have slipped up against teams that are not really better than BYU, Tennessee, or a road game at Indiana St and Northern Iowa. Not consistently... but just once.
 
the question is who wants to schedule them? what good does it do them to schedule top teams who will only play them at home?
This. No high major wants to play Wichita. If you beat them, it's "oh they're just a mid major, you're supposed ot beat them" if they beat you though, you'll take heat for it. They're only chance to play the big boys is in preseason tournaments.
 
Current ranking is based only on what you have done THIS year. Pretty sure WSU lost a few key players from last year's team so you can't even say they are as good as they were last year. Based on who they have played and beaten, I am not sure they even deserve to be in the top 4. Looking at their schedule, they have played and beaten exactly 1 top 25 team(St. Louis) and again only 1 team on their schedule is pretty much a lock to play in the NCAA' tourn. That is an unbelievably pathetic resume for any top 5-10 team. On top of that, they have not exactly looked like world beaters in that sorry conf they play in. Wichita State is a decent team but I will be really surprised if they make it past the sweet sixteen this year.

You can't call Wichita St just decent because of their schedule. Just a team that can't justify if they are an elite top 5 team.
 
Good day for upsets in the top 25. Lowly Temple took out SMU, Wisconsin took out Michigan 6 spots above them and Villanova's getting a beatdown. Unfortunately Wichita St turned it on in the last few minutes and is up by 12.
 
first off arizona should drop like a stone. i'd say 10th. HAD we lost to ncst why then yes florida should have hopped us.
seriously. as an AD how would you load up your schedule if you knew you could skate by to a #1 seed playing nobody?

Does your top 10 have 10 teams in it? Or do leave 4 spots blank.
 
9 teams?

I know St. Louis is some bush league mid-major team in your eyes, but if the top 15 teams played in the country for one game at St. Louis. how many would win? In reality it would be about half. That would knock out a lot of teams. This is not to say that Wichita St is better than those teams because they beat St. Louis and others did not in this "assumed" game. It merely goes to show that running the table on a moderate schedule is still difficult.

Good teams have lost to moderate teams this year.

Arizona lost Cal and ASU.
San Diego St lost to Wyoming
Duke lost to Clemson and Notre Dome
Michigan St lost at home to Nebraska
Cincy lost to New Mexico and Xavier
Iowa St lost to West Virginia

To act like a whole bunch of teams would not slip up just once is really stretching it.

There would be a whole many teams with 1 or 2 losses, no doubt. And some of those teams with 1 loss would be better than Wichita St. There is an element of luck (beyond skill and talent) of going undefeated. Other top 15 teams have slipped up against teams that are not really better than BYU, Tennessee, or a road game at Indiana St and Northern Iowa. Not consistently... but just once.
They played a team today that has sleeves on their uniforms.

I think their next game is against a team sponsored by Cosmos Pizza.
 
9 teams?

I know St. Louis is some bush league mid-major team in your eyes, but if the top 15 teams played in the country for one game at St. Louis. how many would win? In reality it would be about half. That would knock out a lot of teams. This is not to say that Wichita St is better than those teams because they beat St. Louis and others did not in this "assumed" game. It merely goes to show that running the table on a moderate schedule is still difficult.

Good teams have lost to moderate teams this year.

Arizona lost Cal and ASU.
San Diego St lost to Wyoming
Duke lost to Clemson and Notre Dome
Michigan St lost at home to Nebraska
Cincy lost to New Mexico and Xavier
Iowa St lost to West Virginia

To act like a whole bunch of teams would not slip up just once is really stretching it.

There would be a whole many teams with 1 or 2 losses, no doubt. And some of those teams with 1 loss would be better than Wichita St. There is an element of luck (beyond skill and talent) of going undefeated. Other top 15 teams have slipped up against teams that are not really better than BYU, Tennessee, or a road game at Indiana St and Northern Iowa. Not consistently... but just once.

Not necessarily disagreeing with the going undefeated part, but I think in terms of Arizona, Duke, Michigan St., Cincy, and Iowa St. the reasons why those types of losses happen has a lot more to do with those middle of the pack teams coming at very inopportune times in the schedule (after an injury or after a big win/loss against another conference top tier team) moreso than them being middle-of-the-pack.

Which is why, unfortunately, a team like the Shockers nearly has to go undefeated to get a Top 2 seed in the NCAAs, despite the fact that they are one of the best teams in the country.

Cheers,
Neil
 
the question is who wants to schedule them? what good does it do them to schedule top teams who will only play them at home?
If the Shockers want to improve their SOS then they will either have to play tough(er) OOC games on the road (1-off or 1-for-two), at neutral sites or by entering pre-season tournaments. The only other option is to move to a higher regarded conference.
 
If the Shockers want to improve their SOS then they will either have to play tough(er) OOC games on the road (1-off or 1-for-two), at neutral sites or by entering pre-season tournaments. The only other option is to move to a higher regarded conference.
I don't think they have control over any of the things they suggested except preseason tournaments.
 

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