A theory...

[Hoov50]

Driving home with my brother in law after this (which is about a 2 hour drive) we came up with a theory. First we asked the question, how can guys who have played basketball, likely year round with AAU, since they were in middle school have so little game sense and so little basic understanding of the game?

We came up with the following hypothesis: most of these guys have been bigger, stronger and better than their competition all the way through high school. Some played against good competition during AAU, but most AAU I have seen is glorified pick up games. Since they were always bigger, stronger and better their coaches never took the time to really teach them some of the fundamentals, instead saying "do what you do." This is how you get players who don't know to foul in certain situations. Or don't know when a three is necessary or driving to the hoop is a better option. Or consistently take a power dribble when a foot from the hoop. These are things middle of the pack D1 prospects learn since they cannot dominate simply on ability. One of Coach Boeheim's weaknesses is helping the players learn and gain the game sense they sometimes need when playing against players as good as themselves. Much of the time he is a hands off coach, I don't claim there is anything wrong with this since 900+ wins speak for themselves regardless of the competition level in pre conference games and anything else JB bashers throw out there. This hypothesis can be backed up by the decision making of our current four year starting guard and quite a few others in the past.

 

[EastCoast2]

I think your theory holds water. Maybe this is a factor of why almost every Cuse player flames out in the NBA - the competition gets even better and most don't have the IQ to stand apart, or even hold their own in the league.

The thing is, the NBA is a bunch of freaks. These are the best athletes in the world. And there's about 30 x 15 = 450ish of them in the world? How many D1 players are there right now? Most all-Americans don't make it in the NBA.

With that said, with the quantity of quality players we've had the past 10 years, it would be nice to have more than 2 starters in the NBA.

Then again, there's only 30 x 5 = 150 starting spots in the NBA, and Cuse has 2 of them.

 

[jekelish]

Another thing to consider is that basketball camps and AAU circuits are treated more as showcases than learning experiences for these kids as they come up through those systems. Fundamentals are secondary to showing off and getting a recruiter's attention.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Driving home with my brother in law after this (which is about a 2 hour drive) we came up with a theory. First we asked the question, how can guys who have played basketball, likely year round with AAU, since they were in middle school have so little game sense and so little basic understanding of the game?

We came up with the following hypothesis: most of these guys have been bigger, stronger and better than their competition all the way through high school. Some played against good competition during AAU, but most AAU I have seen is glorified pick up games. Since they were always bigger, stronger and better their coaches never took the time to really teach them some of the fundamentals, instead saying "do what you do." This is how you get players who don't know to foul in certain situations. Or don't know when a three is necessary or driving to the hoop is a better option. Or consistently take a power dribble when a foot from the hoop. These are things middle of the pack D1 prospects learn since they cannot dominate simply on ability. One of Coach Boeheim's weaknesses is helping the players learn and gain the game sense they sometimes need when playing against players as good as themselves. Much of the time he is a hands off coach, I don't claim there is anything wrong with this since 900+ wins speak for themselves regardless of the competition level in pre conference games and anything else JB bashers throw out there. This hypothesis can be backed up by the decision making of our current four year starting guard and quite a few others in the past.

So you are saying that our guys aren't as cerebral as other high major or mid major D-1 players. It's easy to hypothesize after a loss but didn't you see a Miami player and a Duke player both turn the ball over with less than a minute to go.

How about kids in the Ivy league. Smart kids, but they make mistakes as well. It's like Tennis players. The person with the most talent usually wins, but if he makes the most unforced errors, it makes it harder to win.

One thing that I always felt worked in Cuse's favor is the way the set the bench. They run it coach, player, coach, player, coach, player, coach, player. No other school does this. I always thought this helped guard against exactly what you are saying. Maybe when we aren't making a lot of substitutions this doesn't allow for a lot of in game coaching.

I've heard of some head coaches getting "lazy" as their career goes on, but I don't see it with the assistant coaches on the staff. I am sure these guys are running these situations through our players heads non stop.

 

[CaptainJ]

In terms of development of the bigs at least, the team has suffered from the loss of Bernie Fine, even more than the board has suffered from the loss of the user named after him.

 

[bballbeadle]

You could be right, but then what the hell is he saying to them during all those time outs?

 

[heresjohnny88]

In terms of development of the bigs at least, the team has suffered from the loss of Bernie Fine, even more than the board has suffered from the loss of the user named after him.

This.

 

[orange_cream]

Different sort of theory but it seems like one of those years where a team will get hot and win it all after playing terribly in February and early March. No dominant team they just have to get hot at the right time.

One thing I do notice is that the team lacks a slasher and a low post threat. Christmas is useless would like to see a Coleman and Keita platoon. MCW is infuriating to watch sometimes and Souherland has never seen a shot he doesn't like.

However, it only takes 1 game to turn it around and go on a run.

 

[Hoov50]

So you are saying that our guys aren't as cerebral as other high major or mid major D-1 players. It's easy to hypothesize after a loss but didn't you see a Miami player and a Duke player both turn the ball over with less than a minute to go.

How about kids in the Ivy league. Smart kids, but they make mistakes as well. It's like Tennis players. The person with the most talent usually wins, but if he makes the most unforced errors, it makes it harder to win.

One thing that I always felt worked in Cuse's favor is the way the set the bench. They run it coach, player, coach, player, coach, player, coach, player. No other school does this. I always thought this helped guard against exactly what you are saying. Maybe when we aren't making a lot of substitutions this doesn't allow for a lot of in game coaching.

I've heard of some head coaches getting "lazy" as their career goes on, but I don't see it with the assistant coaches on the staff. I am sure these guys are running these situations through our players heads non stop.

I think a lot of D1 players come into college without a high basketball IQ because they dominate HS competition based on ability. Many increase their basketball IQ I am not sure our players do as much as others.

I don't think being book smart has a direct correlation with being game smart. In my playing and coaching career I have been around guys who get awful grades but excel ay understanding the ins and outs of sports. I have also been around valedictorians who have terrible game sense.

I guess my main point is you look at a lot of our players and they do things (jump in the air with no clear place to pass, power dribble, etc.) that you can get away with in HS as the bigger, stronger and better player. I don't think lazy is the term I would use just it may not be a major focus.

 

[Hoov50]

You could be right, but then what the hell is he saying to them during all those time outs?

Who knows, but it is tough to go over every possible scenario. I doubt part of the coaching before Triche threw the inbounds away was, "if we turn it over and then they make a three we have plenty of time to drive for two." It's tough to go over every possible scenario, that's why guys with basketball IQ are so valuable.

 

[Gabjon]

I think AAU ball has destroyed post play and kids learning how to play in the post. I think our senior guard is suffering from trying to be "the man" I long for the days in which he deferred to other players, because he is forcing things that aren't there!

 

[Millhouse]

This.

Fine stunk but he didn't stink so much that you can get by not replacing him at all
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