ACC and Recruiting

[AlaskaSU]

First off, there is no need to re-state the obvious, recruit rankings are not definitive. The significant fact is that there is a significant correlation between rankings and success.

For 2014 Syracuse is involved with 4 five star recruits, and for 2015 Syracuse is involved with 3 five star recruits.

For 2014 Duke is involved with 9 five star recruits. For 2014 four of them are ranked number one at their position and three are ranked number two. For 2015 Duke is involved with 5 five star recruits.

For 2014 N.C. is involved with 4 five star recruits. For 2014 two of them are ranked number one at their position and one is ranked number two. For 2015 N.C. is involved with 7 five star recruits.

As of now, for the next two years Duke is involved with twice as many 5 stars as Syracuse and N.C. is involved with about 50% more five stars.

We have experienced 3 stages of recruiting and are about to experience a fourth.

First Phase. Pre-Big East. We were a strong regional recruiter able to obtain an occasional super star.
Second Phase. Big East, First Half. Our recruiting went National but had its ups and downs. A lot still depended on finding diamonds in the rough. A crisis was reached at the time that the local newspaper printed a 4 part series on the drop-off in recruiting. We were offering some pretty marginal players.
Third Phase. Big East Second Half. With longevity and consistency Boeheim's reputation grew and as a result we moved solidly into the top 20 recruiting powers with forays into the top 10. Although our recruiting has never been more consistently good, we are still not considered to be a selector school. Currently, much to my dismay, we are competing against the likes of Wisconsin and Arizona, neither of which is a selector school.

As we join the ACC we go against a strong Duke and N.C. in a down cycle. Over the next two years Duke and N.C. will, in general, be pulling in significantly higher ranked talent.

Fourth Phase. I surmise that the gap will soon close and Syracuse will become a selector school right up there with N.C., Duke, Kentucky, MSU and Kansas. The ACC will be recognized as the premier BB conference. With the likes of Duke, N.C., Louisville and Syracuse, we will be placing multiple teams in the final 4 on a regular basis. With no Big East to compete against the predominance of the ACC will be solidified. Recruits will be funneled to the Conference. Syracuse will be the main beneficiary. We will be especially strengthened from Baltimore north as teams like Georgetown, Nova and U.Conn. join lesser leagues. Becoming a selector school will be Phase 4 of our recruiting. We will then be on an equal footing with N.C. and Duke.

Sit back and enjoy. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Edit. Strike Wisconsin. I meant Minn.

 

[Lawrinson14]

Very, very interesting and fun time to be a Syracuse fan. I agree with mostly a everything stated above.

Although, in the back of my mind I cant help but think about SU post Coach Boeheim. I have faith in Hopkins, but history has shown replacing a legend is never easy. Hopefully when the time comes there wont be a big time drop off because such a drop in a conference with duke, unc, louisville, pitt, etc, would not be fun. At all.

 

[Solitude]

As long as we can keep up with Minnesota I'll be happy.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Duke might out recruit us, but not so sure about UNC. They have been involved with a lot of five stars, but recently all of those five stars have picked Kentucky over them. If anyones recruiting has been hurt by Calipari going to Kentucky, it is North Carolinas.
Also Rakeem Christmas was a five star Mcdonalds All American. He's had less impact on our team than 3 star players Brandon Triche and James Southerland the last two years. Granted I know they were upperclassmen and he was a freshmen and sophomore, but if the best recruiting classes won the National Title every year we may as well just hand it to Kentucky right now.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Duke might out recruit us, but not so sure about UNC. They have been involved with a lot of five stars, but recently all of those five stars have picked Kentucky over them. If anyones recruiting has been hurt by Calipari going to Kentucky, it is North Carolinas.
Also Rakeem Christmas was a five star Mcdonalds All American. He's had less impact on our team than 3 star players Brandon Triche and James Southerland the last two years. Granted I know they were upperclassmen and he was a freshmen and sophomore, but if the best recruiting classes won the National Title every year we may as well just hand it to Kentucky right now.

correlation does not have to be 100% to be significant.

 

[jordoo]

I think we are ight on the cusp of being a selector school which is great. The move to the ACC along with Lville, Pitt and ND which will make it the premier East Coast bball conference along woth the demise of the BE and the remaining BE kind of raiding the A10 should get us over the hump. Duke and UNC can only sign so many players every year. UK and Cal will eventually implode. The SEC sucks other than UK and FL. Uconn will likely fade as a recruiting power post Calhoun and BE. That leaves a load of NE kids for SU with only Lville as the real competition. I really think that SU could be picking from the best Philly, Balt/DC and New England players some time in the next few seasons. We have also started back on NYC kids (McCulough, Whitehead)

 

[OttosBestFriend]

"...Although our recruiting has never been more consistently good, we are still not considered to be a selector school. Currently, much to my dismay, we are competing against the likes of Wisconsin and Arizona, neither of which is a selector school."

Liked everything you said in the original post EXCEPT the above.

Arizona is very much a "selector school" as you so put it.

Sean Miller's 2013 recruiting class is his 3rd straight in the top-10 (based on several service rankings) with two of those three classes in the top-5.

Going back to the 1980's, Arizona has always been one of the three or four top schools west of the Mississippi for 4* and 5* players.

Since 1977, they have 17 McDonald's All Americans - or put another way, the EXACT same number as Syracuse. (Tied for 9th with Michigan and Ohio State)

Since 1990, Arizona has 13 McDonald's All Americans - two more than Syracuse's 11 and tied for 7th with Florida and Ohio State for 7th.

Since 200, they have 7 Micky D's AA's - one less than SU and only behind Texas, Kansas and UCLA as far as teams out west are concerned.

Make no mistake - whether it be Lute Olsen or Sean Miller at the helm, Arizona has been and is still very much a player in basketball recruiting.


LINK: McDonald's All Americans By School

 

[AlaskaSU]

Liked everything you said in the original post EXCEPT the above.

Arizona is very much a "selector school" as you so put it.

Sean Miller's 2013 recruiting class is his 3rd straight in the top-10 (based on several service rankings) with two of those three classes in the top-5.

Going back to the 1980's, Arizona has always been one of the three or four top schools west of the Mississippi for 4* and 5* players.

Since 1977, they have 17 McDonald's All Americans - or put another way, the EXACT same number as Syracuse. (Tied for 9th with Michigan and Ohio State)

Since 1990, Arizona has 13 McDonald's All Americans - two more than Syracuse's 11 and tied for 7th with Florida and Ohio State for 7th.

Since 200, they have 7 Micky D's AA's - one less than SU and only behind Texas, Kansas and UCLA as far as teams out west are concerned.

Make no mistake - whether it be Lute Olsen or Sean Miller at the helm, Arizona has been and is still very much a player in basketball recruiting.


LINK: McDonald's All Americans By School

Would you put Arizona's recruiting on a par with Kentucky, MSU, N.C., Duke and Kansas?

I would put them one level below, same as Syracuse. The PAC Whatever is becoming more of a football conference. I wonder if AZ can sustain its recruiting without showing anything on the court.

I anticipate that the ACC will move us up to the very top level of recruiting powers.

 

[HoustonCuse]

One thing to consider in this is how much more important recruiting has become. It used to be that you get Derrick Coleman and you are set for 4 years. Now you need a new one every 1.5 years on average just to tread water. Our recruiting has been great, but we are also having to feed the beast a lot more than we used to. It can lead to extreme bust cycles if we have a year or two of down recruiting.

 

[longtimefan]

Would you put Arizona's recruiting on a par with Kentucky, MSU, N.C., Duke and Kansas?

I would put them one level below, same as Syracuse. The PAC Whatever is becoming more of a football conference. I wonder if AZ can sustain its recruiting without showing anything on the court.

I anticipate that the ACC will move us up to the very top level of recruiting powers.

I think that, since Miller got settled in, Arizona has been at the very top of the recruiting hierarchy. Their top incoming recruit, Gordon, is as good as anyone not named Wiggins. The fact that the entire country west of the Rockies has become, by default, theirs also helps considerably.

I also would not put Mich St in the top group. I think their success over the past 15 years has more to do with Izzo (especially at tourney time) than with the number of stars his players have next to their names.

 

[Alsacs]

Duke might out recruit us, but not so sure about UNC. They have been involved with a lot of five stars, but recently all of those five stars have picked Kentucky over them. If anyones recruiting has been hurt by Calipari going to Kentucky, it is North Carolinas.
Also Rakeem Christmas was a five star Mcdonalds All American. He's had less impact on our team than 3 star players Brandon Triche and James Southerland the last two years. Granted I know they were upperclassmen and he was a freshmen and sophomore, but if the best recruiting classes won the National Title every year we may as well just hand it to Kentucky right now.

North Carolina will out-recruit every team in the nation outside of Kentucky w/Calipari for the foreseeable future. Syracuse and Duke can beat UNC for recruits and beat them in the rankings occasionally but Carolina can basically chose whomever they want and get them.
The ACC recruiting will have Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Syracuse on the top tier but will be interchangeable and I think all four will be excellent, but North Carolina will always have the trump card of their alums, history to win the most battles, and while JB will be gone and I think MH is a better recruiter he will need to win which I think we will same thing for Duke and Louisville post-Coach K and Pitino.

 

[Orangezoo]

North Carolina will out-recruit every team in the nation outside of Kentucky w/Calipari for the foreseeable future. Syracuse and Duke can beat UNC for recruits and beat them in the rankings occasionally but Carolina can basically chose whomever they want and get them.
The ACC recruiting will have Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Syracuse on the top tier but will be interchangeable and I think all four will be excellent, but North Carolina will always have the trump card of their alums, history to win the most battles, and while JB will be gone and I think MH is a better recruiter he will need to win which I think we will same thing for Duke and Louisville post-Coach K and Pitino.

I agree about UNC. They don't always get the performance expected from the high rated recruits but they are a monster in that respect. After every dry spell they always come up with a bigtime class and get on a hot streak.

 

[cap2nine]

Whether SU is currently identified as an elite recruiting school or a "selector" school or a tier below the biggest boys on the block really doesn't matter to me. Our recruiting classes have been very good over the past decade and seem to be improving still. There are multiple reasons that contribute to recruiting success including Coach Boeheim, success itself, the Melo Center and, to a large degree, Coach Hopkins. We are trending in a positive direction and joining the ACC only helps. My only hope is that Hop is still with us in a few years to continue his amazing, positive recruiting influence or, should he be lured away, he is replaced by someone equally dedicated and effective. I think that his personal recruiting abilities are often underestimated. But the most important and telling results of our recruiting in the next several years, from within the ACC, will be how we fare in head-to-head recruitment against Duke, UNC, NC State and even FSU, GT and Maryland. We have to keep our existing pipelines strong while cracking their strongholds from time to time.

 

[Madbiker]

Coach K has really turned his recruiting up a notch since the last Olympics. He used to not go after the one and dones. He is now and he is having success. The analysis above is very telling. While SU has had good success in recruiting the last few years, if we want to compete with Duke and UNC for ACC titles, and not just finishing 3rd and getting a #4 seed in the NCAAT, then we will need to bring in more 5 star top 15 elite kids regularly and not just once in a while. We are not currently a selector school but are on the next level below (UK, Kansas, UNC, Duke). We rarely are involved with top 10 kids. I'm not meaning to be negative. Our recruiting has been quite good the last few years. But note the difficulty we are having securing Whitehead and Briscoe.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Whether SU is currently identified as an elite recruiting school or a "selector" school or a tier below the biggest boys on the block really doesn't matter to me. Our recruiting classes have been very good over the past decade and seem to be improving still. There are multiple reasons that contribute to recruiting success including Coach Boeheim, success itself, the Melo Center and, to a large degree, Coach Hopkins. We are trending in a positive direction and joining the ACC only helps. My only hope is that Hop is still with us in a few years to continue his amazing, positive recruiting influence or, should he be lured away, he is replaced by someone equally dedicated and effective. I think that his personal recruiting abilities are often underestimated. But the most important and telling results of our recruiting in the next several years, from within the ACC, will be how we fare in head-to-head recruitment against Duke, UNC, NC State and even FSU, GT and Maryland. We have to keep our existing pipelines strong while cracking their strongholds from time to time.

Recruits care about the prestige of a Cuse offer. It is of supreme importance. Do you think that we consistently recruit on the same level as Duke and NC? If we want equality with Duke and NC our recruiting has to move up to the next notch.
I think it will but it will take a couple of years.

Our 2014 recruiting is typical. We land one prime target and lose on a couple of others that should easily be ours. Most fans are happy and should be given historical perspective. However, in a typical year, Duke and NC are a step above what we are used to. Look at the comparative recruiting numbers I presented in my post or look at the number of NC's Duke and N.C. have won. As Houston and MadBiker noted, one and dones have changed the landscape. The new game is advantageous to the selector schools. We need to join their ranks. Fortunately, we are well positioned to do so by using the predicted increased prestige of the ACC, especially with the demise of its main competitor, the Big East.