ACC Move...

[SyracuseMiami]

Perhaps it's my own fault for even looking at their boards but I find it comical how dillusional the WVU fans are about their move to the Big 12. A league that practically imploded just 8 months ago, solidfied themselves a bit with the addition of TCU and WVU just to keep the league together, now all of a sudden the Big 12 is some juggernaut that will "keep the ACC out of the BCS playoffs in most years" and are positioned to pick apart the ACC stealing FSU and Clemson easily and likely Miami, GT, Maryland, etc...

Is the ACC vulnerable with it's ESPN contract versus other leagues in the short term, sure we are. But there is a renegotiation underway which I believe will ensure the ACC has a competitive deal. Swofford was smart enough to know that expanding the ACC to become the east coast equivalent of the Pac 12 would drive value. I hope that is realized in the TV contract because what is and will be put together is about to be something special.

Now we just need Notre Dame and one other for all sports and we'll have a very solid, stable, and valuable league!! Now we just need to do our part and start winning. Go Cuse!

 

[OrangeCrush22]

From the Pitt Rivals board.

Couple weeks ago at this point, but Swoffords/IMG (IMG lawyers were hired by the ACC to handle negotiations) call with Chancellors and ADs at ACC/Future-ACC schools was to provide a status update on talks with ESPN and Raycom.

--Discussion of an ACC Network with ownership by ESPN, Raycom, and ACC for "Tier 3" games
--Mediation is being recommended because of the ESPN/Raycom subleasing agreement and impact of game distribution across the TV spectrum for those parties.
--Contract terms will put ACC in top four of conference TV revenues based on numbers discussed and PAC10/12 deal is being used as the platform for negotiation (not in terms of dollar value, but structure).
--Discussion of a Grant of Rights in parallel with ACC Network
ESPN wants guarantees surrounding possible future expansion, as to not go back to the negotiating table again if ND is added or a UConn/Rutgers/etc. Structured contractual parameters if there are future additions for the remaining life of the TV contract
--No rush to have contract completed until Spring of 2013, as ACC/IMG believes there will both be a higher value for the conference based on future US economic conditions and improved conference performance on the field/court (in addition to even higher Neilsen ranking data primarily for football)

 

[prez41]

Perhaps it's my own fault for even looking at their boards but I find it comical how dillusional the WVU fans are about their move to the Big 12. A league that practically imploded just 8 months ago, solidfied themselves a bit with the addition of TCU and WVU just to keep the league together, now all of a sudden the Big 12 is some juggernaut that will "keep the ACC out of the BCS playoffs in most years" and are positioned to pick apart the ACC stealing FSU and Clemson easily and likely Miami, GT, Maryland, etc...

Is the ACC vulnerable with it's ESPN contract versus other leagues in the short term, sure we are. But there is a renegotiation underway which I believe will ensure the ACC has a competitive deal. Swofford was smart enough to know that expanding the ACC to become the east coast equivalent of the Pac 12 would drive value. I hope that is realized in the TV contract because what is and will be put together is about to be something special.

Now we just need Notre Dame and one other for all sports and we'll have a very solid, stable, and valuable league!! Now we just need to do our part and start winning. Go Cuse!

Reading WVU message boards kills brain cells.

 

[Alsacs]

Perhaps it's my own fault for even looking at their boards but I find it comical how dillusional the WVU fans are about their move to the Big 12. A league that practically imploded just 8 months ago, solidfied themselves a bit with the addition of TCU and WVU just to keep the league together, now all of a sudden the Big 12 is some juggernaut that will "keep the ACC out of the BCS playoffs in most years" and are positioned to pick apart the ACC stealing FSU and Clemson easily and likely Miami, GT, Maryland, etc...

Is the ACC vulnerable with it's ESPN contract versus other leagues in the short term, sure we are. But there is a renegotiation underway which I believe will ensure the ACC has a competitive deal. Swofford was smart enough to know that expanding the ACC to become the east coast equivalent of the Pac 12 would drive value. I hope that is realized in the TV contract because what is and will be put together is about to be something special.

Now we just need Notre Dame and one other for all sports and we'll have a very solid, stable, and valuable league!! Now we just need to do our part and start winning. Go Cuse!

Florida State and Clemson won't leave the ACC for the B12 the SEC is one thing but the B12 still has a problem called the Longhorn Network. Texas OWNS the conference Oklahoma knows even they aren't on the same playing field as Texas. Think about this Texas's ARCH rival for over a century left their history to go to the SEC to get out of dealing with the 900 LB guerrilla that is Texas. While I like WVU and have respect for the program their fanbase is absolutely out of touch with reality. Basically the B12 became weaker when Texas A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Missour all left. These schools atleast A&M and Nebraska attempted to fight Texas in a power struggle but left and were replaced with TCU and West Virginia. Neither WVU or TCU will cause a stir in the power struggle and Texas will keep chugging along with power. WVU will be a good mid/to occasionally competing for a league title team but they will NEVER have any power to call the shots.

That is why I am happy with the ACC we will be with schools I am okay associating with 4 private schools BC,Wake, Duke, Miami and good Southern schools UVA, VPI, Ga Tech, FSU, Pitt, Clemson, UNC, NCSU, Maryland. This new playoff system basically only helps the SEC IMO. The 5 major conferences SEC, B1G, P12, B12, ACC will competing to get in the top 4 and you can basically ensure that 1 of the 4 will come from the SEC and the leagues will be fighting for the other 3. I don't believe the ACC is vulnerable to losing a team unless VPI becomes a target of the SEC. Finally, remember this WVU fans WANT TO PILE on the Big East and ACC now that they are in B12 they think they are at the Big Boy Table and their fanbase isn't the most classy bunch so their opinions of what will happen are more of what they want rather than reality.

 

[HtownOrange]

Florida State and Clemson won't leave the ACC for the B12 the SEC is one thing but the B12 still has a problem called the Longhorn Network. Texas OWNS the conference Oklahoma knows even they aren't on the same playing field as Texas. Think about this Texas's ARCH rival for over a century left their history to go to the SEC to get out of dealing with the 900 LB guerrilla that is Texas. While I like WVU and have respect for the program their fanbase is absolutely out of touch with reality. Basically the B12 became weaker when Texas A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Missour all left. These schools atleast A&M and Nebraska attempted to fight Texas in a power struggle but left and were replaced with TCU and West Virginia. Neither WVU or TCU will cause a stir in the power struggle and Texas will keep chugging along with power. WVU will be a good mid/to occasionally competing for a league title team but they will NEVER have any power to call the shots.

That is why I am happy with the ACC we will be with schools I am okay associating with 4 private schools BC,Wake, Duke, Miami and good Southern schools UVA, VPI, Ga Tech, FSU, Pitt, Clemson, UNC, NCSU, Maryland. This new playoff system basically only helps the SEC IMO. The 5 major conferences SEC, B1G, P12, B12, ACC will competing to get in the top 4 and you can basically ensure that 1 of the 4 will come from the SEC and the leagues will be fighting for the other 3. I don't believe the ACC is vulnerable to losing a team unless VPI becomes a target of the SEC. Finally, remember this WVU fans WANT TO PILE on the Big East and ACC now that they are in B12 they think they are at the Big Boy Table and their fanbase isn't the most classy bunch so their opinions of what will happen are more of what they want rather than reality.

I agree with most of what you say. My perception from here in Texas is that TAMU was only the #2 rival in Texas' eyes. Their biggest rival is Oklahoma. Also, TAMU's biggest rival before the SWAC fell apart seems to have been Arkansas, whom they wanted to tag along with to the SEC before UT pulled political strings and forced them into the Big 12. Again, this is what the people here in the Houston area are telling me, not some goofy ESPN reporter or blog hack.

Your assessment of the Big 12 is dead on, they lost big time when Nebraska, Colorado, TAMU and Mizzou flew the coup. Another anecdote from Houston is that Texas and the Big 12 are looking forward to making WVU eat crow when they play the Big 12 schools. WVU will not be running the Big 12 table anytime soon. And many Big 12 fans are NOT looking forwad to the WVU fans, their reputation precedes them.

 

[omniorange]

If the Big 12 eventually adds two teams, I think WVU could become a player in that league in a North or East division.

But not in its current format.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[SmilinBob]

Texas owns that conference like the Carolina schools own the ACC only it's one school, not 2 to 4.

That said, the Big 12 is desperate and still a bit nervous over losing good schools and having the PAC 12 peaking over their shoulder so I would not be surprised to see them making promises to schools like Clemson/FSU that they could make more money there. I think it's working because Swofford seems to be a bit worried and is making sure he can get as much cash as possible for the ACC. It may be just my opinion but the Big 12 needs FSU/Clemson because Louisville and BYU do not appeal to them football wise and will not keep schools from looking around and again, especially with the PAC 12 out there. The true relationship between OU/Texas is a huge key here, not the perception of it but the real one that we may not know about. If poop hits the fan Texas, TT, OU and OSU could be out of there and if they can swing a deal for Kansas which imo is what the PAC 12 would love for their hoops, they are gone. The PAC should have gone UT/TT/OU/OSU/KU and KSU instead of Colorado and Utah.

Now, if we have a split with the Big10/Pac and the SEC/ACC/Big 12 over this Rose Bowl playoff thing, I see the Big 10 and PAC12 pushing hard, real hard for some of the other Big 3 schools. The ACC can not just sit still and be content that no one has left them because we know that throughout history those who do that get burned so it's extremely important that Swofford keeps them happy because if the TV numbers add up enough to make that 20 Million ok to pay, we have a problem.

 

[All4SU]

I think there is a 0% chance that FSU and Clemson leave the ACC for the Big12.

 

[Scooch]

I think there is a 0% chance that FSU and Clemson leave the ACC for the Big12.

I think your estimate is high.

 

[SmilinBob]

I hope you guys are right and it also is possible FSU/Clemson are playing the Big 12 for a possible SEC offer because the SEC does not want the Big 12 in those two states.

 

[WoadBlue]

Texas owns that conference like the Carolina schools own the ACC only it's one school, not 2 to 4.

That said, the Big 12 is desperate and still a bit nervous over losing good schools and having the PAC 12 peaking over their shoulder so I would not be surprised to see them making promises to schools like Clemson/FSU that they could make more money there. I think it's working because Swofford seems to be a bit worried and is making sure he can get as much cash as possible for the ACC. It may be just my opinion but the Big 12 needs FSU/Clemson because Louisville and BYU do not appeal to them football wise and will not keep schools from looking around and again, especially with the PAC 12 out there. The true relationship between OU/Texas is a huge key here, not the perception of it but the real one that we may not know about. If poop hits the fan Texas, TT, OU and OSU could be out of there and if they can swing a deal for Kansas which imo is what the PAC 12 would love for their hoops, they are gone. The PAC should have gone UT/TT/OU/OSU/KU and KSU instead of Colorado and Utah.

Now, if we have a split with the Big10/Pac and the SEC/ACC/Big 12 over this Rose Bowl playoff thing, I see the Big 10 and PAC12 pushing hard, real hard for some of the other Big 3 schools. The ACC can not just sit still and be content that no one has left them because we know that throughout history those who do that get burned so it's extremely important that Swofford keeps them happy because if the TV numbers add up enough to make that 20 Million ok to pay, we have a problem.

The ACC is not controlled by the 4 NC schools. UVA has more individual power than either Wake or NCSU, and Maryland has always wielded a good deal of influence. Maryland and GT, supported fully by Clemson and FSU, had enough power to make certain that there was zero possibility that the 4 NC schools could be in the same division.

Texas wants to be unquestioned autocrat of that in which it is a member. Texas has never considered the SEC because Texas cannot rule the roost as sole rooster in the SEC. The deal with the Pac would have left Texas rooster of the new 8 team Pac East, and that was fine with UTx. But the Aggies decided against being so gored again by steers. WVU is not going to be remotely close to an equal in the Big 12.

I think Texas might be trying to cause the ACC trouble as WVU fans seem to think because the ACC took Pitt, forcing Texas to take WVU, a school with which it would prefer not to make a rough peer through sports. But I assume that nobody with power at any ACC school is stupid enough to believe that Texas is the leopard that not only has changed its spots, but has agreed to be declawed.

 

[baggerbob]

The fans at Florida St and Clemson may look at the BIG 12 as great for football, but the presidents of the schools know that Texas is a problem and always will be. The 6 year signing of rights is nothing, if texas was serious about staying in the Big 12, do what the Big 10 did, sign rights for 20 years.

 

[OregonOrange]

Pitt is a good "southern" school?

 

[Townie72]

Reading WVU message boards kills brain cells.

Reading any of these boards of the "desperate" will kill brain cells.

And the WVU people are among the most insular and dedicated. They had to go to the Big 12 when asked because the Big East is morphing into CUSA-II with them or without them.

But they really don't know what's in store for them in the Big 12. Their days of easy pickings in the Big East are over. WVU's record before the departure of Miami and VT was anything but stellar. I predict they will struggle mightily against teams that can really play. They are middle of the pack at best.

If you read the Rutgers board, you might be convinced that expanding conference couldn't resist adding them for their TV market potential. Until, of course, you see what the Conferences have really done. But they are still at it, guaranteeing one another that they are next. AT least most of the UConn people appear to have acquiesed to the fact that they are stuck in a conference with SMU, Houston and Central Florida.

 

[kingottoiii]

I like how WV fans think ESPN wants FSU and Clemson to go to the B12. That makes ZERO sense what so ever. So a network that controls all three tiers for the ACC in FB and BBall wants to give that up so it can have a shared 1st and 2nd tier with FOX for the B12? Ooooook. Not to mention that IF ESPN loses the B1G they will have very little college sports inventory left should the ACC die. If anything ESPN should want the ACC to stick together and give in more than they should with the new TV #s for adding SU and Pitt.

I also find it funny how they think that NC St and VT are going to leave the ACC. The ONLY way that NC St could end up in the B12 or SEC is IF UNC has an offer in hand for the B1G and is willing to go. Neither UNC nor NC St will ever be left on the outside of a major conference. So either they both move on or neither do. I think you can same the same about VT (B12/SEC) and UVA (B1G). While I could see VT/NC St to the SEC and UNC/Duke/UVA to the B1G, it is highly unlikely to happen.

WV fans are just bitter that they were rejected by the ACC and SEC. And the ONLY reason the B12 took them is because WV was willing to ditch the BE and come to the B12 THIS year. Otherwise they may not have been chosen over schools like UL, BYU, etc. WV simply wasn't desirable and was just a pawn. Now their fans are trying to make themselves look more important because of jealousy.

 

[SU2NASA]

I like how WV fans think ESPN wants FSU and Clemson to go to the B12. That makes ZERO sense what so ever. So a network that controls all three tiers for the ACC in FB and BBall wants to give that up so it can have a shared 1st and 2nd tier with FOX for the B12? Ooooook. Not to mention that IF ESPN loses the B1G they will have very little college sports inventory left should the ACC die. If anything ESPN should want the ACC to stick together and give in more than they should with the new TV #s for adding SU and Pitt.

I also find it funny how they think that NC St and VT are going to leave the ACC. The ONLY way that NC St could end up in the B12 or SEC is IF UNC has an offer in hand for the B1G and is willing to go. Neither UNC nor NC St will ever be left on the outside of a major conference. So either they both move on or neither do. I think you can same the same about VT (B12/SEC) and UVA (B1G). While I could see VT/NC St to the SEC and UNC/Duke/UVA to the B1G, it is highly unlikely to happen.

WV fans are just bitter that they were rejected by the ACC and SEC. And the ONLY reason the B12 took them is because WV was willing to ditch the BE and come to the B12 THIS year. Otherwise they may not have been chosen over schools like UL, BYU, etc. WV simply wasn't desirable and was just a pawn. Now their fans are trying to make themselves look more important because of jealousy.

I grow tired of your "logic" and "reason".

 

[All4SU]

Reading any of these boards of the "desperate" will kill brain cells.

And the WVU people are among the most insular and dedicated. They had to go to the Big 12 when asked because the Big East is morphing into CUSA-II with them or without them.

But they really don't know what's in store for them in the Big 12. Their days of easy pickings in the Big East are over. WVU's record before the departure of Miami and VT was anything but stellar. I predict they will struggle mightily against teams that can really play. They are middle of the pack at best.

If you read the Rutgers board, you might be convinced that expanding conference couldn't resist adding them for their TV market potential. Until, of course, you see what the Conferences have really done. But they are still at it, guaranteeing one another that they are next. AT least most of the UConn people appear to have acquiesed to the fact that they are stuck in a conference with SMU, Houston and Central Florida.

Yup. The defection of WVU to the B12 says more about the state of the BE than any other event. While the BE losing SU and Pitt was a huge blow, it was not completely unexpected either. Once BC, Miami and VT bolted, everyone knew that the ACC could always come back for more.

But WVU COULD have remained in the BE, and continued to have success -- especially in a watered down league. The very fact that they would jump to a Southwestern-centric conference, where they will be paired up against Texas, Oklahoma and others, is a pretty strong indictment against the BE. And this is more than a fair chance that L'Ville will be out that revolving door next. Truly desperate times for the Big East.

 

[SyracuseMiami]

I also don't think people recognize that the balance of power is shifting in the ACC as it grows its membership. Carolina schools will be 4 of 14 rather than 4 of 9 like they once were. While Cuse is viewed as basketball centric due to its success in the sport we are still very much committed to football success. Additionally Syracuse will remain aligned with Miami, who was a big supporter of our inclusion. I think we'll see a well balanced governance of the league.

Cuse '97; Canes '99

The ACC is not controlled by the 4 NC schools. UVA has more individual power than either Wake or NCSU, and Maryland has always wielded a good deal of influence. Maryland and GT, supported fully by Clemson and FSU, had enough power to make certain that there was zero possibility that the 4 NC schools could be in the same division.

Texas wants to be unquestioned autocrat of that in which it is a member. Texas has never considered the SEC because Texas cannot rule the roost as sole rooster in the SEC. The deal with the Pac would have left Texas rooster of the new 8 team Pac East, and that was fine with UTx. But the Aggies decided against being so gored again by steers. WVU is not going to be remotely close to an equal in the Big 12.

I think Texas might be trying to cause the ACC trouble as WVU fans seem to think because the ACC took Pitt, forcing Texas to take WVU, a school with which it would prefer not to make a rough peer through sports. But I assume that nobody with power at any ACC school is stupid enough to believe that Texas is the leopard that not only has changed its spots, but has agreed to be declawed.

 

[kingottoiii]

I also don't think people recognize that the balance of power is shifting in the ACC as it grows its membership. Carolina schools will be 4 of 14 rather than 4 of 9 like they once were. While Cuse is viewed as basketball centric due to its success in the sport we are still very much committed to football success. Additionally Syracuse will remain aligned with Miami, who was a big supporter of our inclusion. I think we'll see a well balanced governance of the league.

Cuse '97; Canes '99

Not really. UNC, Duke, and UVA are all pretty close. UNC has control over NC St and influence of Wake. UVA has influence of VT. Then you have MD who likes being with UNC/Duke. So that is 7 ACC schools that are all pretty close. The only way to balance that would be for ND and one of UConn/RU to come to the ACC. Then you would likely have ND, BC, SU, Pitt, Miami, UConn/RU all pretty close together.

 

[SyracuseMiami]

I'm betting we'll see a block that looks like FSU, Miami, GT, Pitt, Clemson, BC, and Cuse form to counter weight the block you highlight below. All said, i'd say it's accurate to say the Carolina influence is slowly diminishing.

Not really. UNC, Duke, and UVA are all pretty close. UNC has control over NC St and influence of Wake. UVA has influence of VT. Then you have MD who likes being with UNC/Duke. So that is 7 ACC schools that are all pretty close. The only way to balance that would be for ND and one of UConn/RU to come to the ACC. Then you would likely have ND, BC, SU, Pitt, Miami, UConn/RU all pretty close together.

 

[WoadBlue]

I like how WV fans think ESPN wants FSU and Clemson to go to the B12. That makes ZERO sense what so ever. So a network that controls all three tiers for the ACC in FB and BBall wants to give that up so it can have a shared 1st and 2nd tier with FOX for the B12? Ooooook. Not to mention that IF ESPN loses the B1G they will have very little college sports inventory left should the ACC die. If anything ESPN should want the ACC to stick together and give in more than they should with the new TV #s for adding SU and Pitt.

I also find it funny how they think that NC St and VT are going to leave the ACC. The ONLY way that NC St could end up in the B12 or SEC is IF UNC has an offer in hand for the B1G and is willing to go. Neither UNC nor NC St will ever be left on the outside of a major conference. So either they both move on or neither do. I think you can same the same about VT (B12/SEC) and UVA (B1G). While I could see VT/NC St to the SEC and UNC/Duke/UVA to the B1G, it is highly unlikely to happen.

WV fans are just bitter that they were rejected by the ACC and SEC. And the ONLY reason the B12 took them is because WV was willing to ditch the BE and come to the B12 THIS year. Otherwise they may not have been chosen over schools like UL, BYU, etc. WV simply wasn't desirable and was just a pawn. Now their fans are trying to make themselves look more important because of jealousy.

People should go to the WVU SCout board and read the Forum on Big 12 membership. There they spew more hate for the ACC than is nearly imaginable. Every one of their predictions about how the Big 12, with their necessary help, even leadership, is going to gut the ACC, with then NCSU and VT going to the SEC, leaving UNC, UVA, and Dook with nothing, is a gloat about how they led by Oliver Luck are putting one over on the snobby smart schools. It is the ultimate fantasy payback for not taking them.

 

[Toga]

You know, maybe in a few years I will care about blocs of schools and power struggles in the ACC. But for now, we are the new kids on the block and I'm just damn happy to be in the ACC.

 

[SyracuseMiami]

I think we are a just glad to be there, but you'll notice FSU is worried about it today and a football bloc is something of high importance to them if they are to stay in the league. Check out warchant. Understand it's just fans talking but it eerily mirrors the b-ball vs football disconnects of the big east...

You know, maybe in a few years I will care about blocs of schools and power struggles in the ACC. But for now, we are the new kids on the block and I'm just damn happy to be in the ACC.

 

[Guinness]

People should go to the WVU SCout board and read the Forum on Big 12 membership. There they spew more hate for the ACC than is nearly imaginable. Every one of their predictions about how the Big 12, with their necessary help, even leadership, is going to gut the ACC, with then NCSU and VT going to the SEC, leaving UNC, UVA, and Dook with nothing, is a gloat about how they led by Oliver Luck are putting one over on the snobby smart schools. It is the ultimate fantasy payback for not taking them.

The UConn board is much of the same.

 

[SmilinBob]

The ACC is not controlled by the 4 NC schools. UVA has more individual power than either Wake or NCSU, and Maryland has always wielded a good deal of influence. Maryland and GT, supported fully by Clemson and FSU, had enough power to make certain that there was zero possibility that the 4 NC schools could be in the same division.

Texas wants to be unquestioned autocrat of that in which it is a member. Texas has never considered the SEC because Texas cannot rule the roost as sole rooster in the SEC. The deal with the Pac would have left Texas rooster of the new 8 team Pac East, and that was fine with UTx. But the Aggies decided against being so gored again by steers. WVU is not going to be remotely close to an equal in the Big 12.

I think Texas might be trying to cause the ACC trouble as WVU fans seem to think because the ACC took Pitt, forcing Texas to take WVU, a school with which it would prefer not to make a rough peer through sports. But I assume that nobody with power at any ACC school is stupid enough to believe that Texas is the leopard that not only has changed its spots, but has agreed to be declawed.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote and agree that Texas is only looking out for their interests first and foremost and want to control every aspect of a conference as they can.

That said, what you wrote does explain a problem and it is who yields the power and it isn't evenly shared as it should be. This has to be fixed and all 12 and now 14 have to work together or it could become a problem.