ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[WoadBlue]

Thanks OX. AA basically stated what this board has surmised. There will be winners and losers on the money side. Teams will be fighting for time slots and exposure on the better networks, gives example of GATech owning the best ratings last fall based on Week Zero game with FSU, big Miami game, and the multiple overtime game with UGA. [Can SU be a player in the ratings war next fall w/Tennessee, Miami, Clemson, ND, UNC?] Teams can leave when they want (are offered a spot in the B1G or SEC), no one probably leaves right away but once the dust settles anything goes. The five years of stability can be cut short if the B1G or SEC make an offer, thus "stability" has no clear definition. Non-revenue sports may see cuts in team numbers to accommodate the expected ruling on NIL/Pay for play.

The reason that we have seen that Syracuse reptilian Greg Sankey talk about the SEC and BT playing a league wide series of OOC games vs only each other is so that they control all OOC money as well.

And that is a reason I have come to see the ACC needing to both expunge dead weight while also getting larger: so that the league will have much better numbers of larger state flagship and land grant schools abler to do better on TV than Wake etc. If necessary, the ACC then could play up top 10 league games.

My advice to everyone is to follow the Bobby Bowden plan that was necessary to the rise of FSU football. Bowden found that most of the top football band names at the time ewer not interested in playing FSU with a straight up Home-Away series. So at times FSU would get a 2 game series, with FSU's 'home' game being played at an off campus site, such as Orlando or Tampa or Miami or Jacksonville.

TV viewers are not going to avoid watching FSU play anybody because the FSU 'home game' is in Jacksonville rather than Tallahassee. TV viewers are not going to drop in number because Syracuse plays PSU or Mich ST at Giants stadium rather than in Syracuse.

I have been making that case on UNC boards for years. UNC needs to be willing to give up a true Home game for playing in say, Charlotte if that gets UNC a series against UGA or Tennessee or some other major name brand.

If I am Dook, for example, I am begging all SEC schools but Vandy and all BT schools but Northwestern and Rutgers to play a series in which the Dook 'home' game is at a neutral site.

Cal should try to get a 4 game series vs SC, with 2 games at the Coliseum, 1 in Berkeley, and the other Cal 'home' game at the Rose Bowl.

 

[longtimefan]

The reason that we have seen that Syracuse reptilian Greg Sankey talk about the SEC and BT playing a league wide series of OOC games vs only each other is so that they control all OOC money as well.

And that is a reason I have come to see the ACC needing to both expunge dead weight while also getting larger: so that the league will have much better numbers of larger state flagship and land grant schools abler to do better on TV than Wake etc. If necessary, the ACC then could play up top 10 league games.

My advice to everyone is to follow the Bobby Bowden plan that was necessary to the rise of FSU football. Bowden found that most of the top football band names at the time ewer not interested in playing FSU with a straight up Home-Away series. So at times FSU would get a 2 game series, with FSU's 'home' game being played at an off campus site, such as Orlando or Tampa or Miami or Jacksonville.

TV viewers are not going to avoid watching FSU play anybody because the FSU 'home game' is in Jacksonville rather than Tallahassee. TV viewers are not going to drop in number because Syracuse plays PSU or Mich ST at Giants stadium rather than in Syracuse.

I have been making that case on UNC boards for years. UNC needs to be willing to give up a true Home game for playing in say, Charlotte if that gets UNC a series against UGA or Tennessee or some other major name brand.

If I am Dook, for example, I am begging all SEC schools but Vandy and all BT schools but Northwestern and Rutgers to play a series in which the Dook 'home' game is at a neutral site.

Cal should try to get a 4 game series vs SC, with 2 games at the Coliseum, 1 in Berkeley, and the other Cal 'home' game at the Rose Bowl.

You need a Northeast geography lesson. Giants Stadium is not just down the road from the SU campus.

 

[WoadBlue]

You need a Northeast geography lesson. Giants Stadium is not just down the road from the SU campus.

I know where it is, and I know where Syracuse is. I also know that nobody with a major football name gives half a rat's piss to play in Syracuse. That little dome attracts no one worth attracting. Ditto for central NY. So my advice is to do creative OOC scheduling to get the big name games, which will make your TV numbers higher.

All the ACC members but FSU, Clemson, and maybe VPI need tone thinking along those lines, because TV pays for TV viewers, not for Ws and not for playing I what are deemed Home fields.

 

[TexanMark]

Can someone inform Penn State they aren't worth attracting?

 

[HtownOrange]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/toughest-fbs-schedules-nation-2025-season#gid=ci02f61e9c4000275d&pid=5-syracuse

See No. 5.

Sure, schedule toughness rankings are subjective, but they are indicative to make someone think that a team's schedule is tough.


ESPN has SU raked #14 on the toughness scale:

ESPN's Top 40 strength of schedule ratings for 2025 college football season revealed

.

www.on3.com

FSU is the next ACC team at #30; Stanford at #33; Clemson at #34; Miami at #36; BC at #37; and NCState at #39.

 

[FloridaCuse]

 

[HtownOrange]

Ex: Wiscy has 23 teams, drawing down 7 teams will allow monies spread thin among the 20 non-revenue teams to be spent on 13 non-revenue teams.

It will be interesting to see which sports get cut at each school and whether Title IX affects the decisions.

SU supports 18 teams. Do they cut two? If so, which ones?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Ex: Wiscy has 23 teams, drawing down 7 teams will allow monies spread thin among the 20 non-revenue teams to be spent on 13 non-revenue teams.

It will be interesting to see which sports get cut at each school and whether Title IX affects the decisions.

SU supports 18 teams. Do they cut two? If so, which ones?

I would guess that it would be one men and one women. But it could be two men. Cross Country, Rowing, and Track would be the ones on the block IMO. I suppose there isn't a point in Men's Soccer given the academy system that now exists. Although if they are "employees" you could have potential buy outs from a soccer club that would recover some of your investment.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Ex: Wiscy has 23 teams, drawing down 7 teams will allow monies spread thin among the 20 non-revenue teams to be spent on 13 non-revenue teams.

It will be interesting to see which sports get cut at each school and whether Title IX affects the decisions.

SU supports 18 teams. Do they cut two? If so, which ones?

Women have 11 teams, Men have 7 (although MROW isn't an NCAA sport, it's administered under the Intercollegiate Rowing Assoc).

We only have 12 different sports. We're already under 16.

Does Sankey mean 16 total sports, or 16 teams?

You could combine XC & TF into 1 sport, since they run different times of the year and use almost the same athletes. Kids come here to run XC because they can also run the distance races during Indoor and Outdoor Track season. If you cut the TF teams, Syracuse is a less attractive destination for long distance runners.

Men's	Women's
Football
Basketball	Basketball
Soccer	Soccer
Lacrosse	Lacrosse
XC	XC
TF	TF
Rowing*	Rowing
	Field Hockey
	Ice Hockey
	Volleyball
	Tennis
	Softball

 

[HtownOrange]

Women have 11 teams, Men have 7 (although MROW isn't an NCAA sport, it's administered under the Intercollegiate Rowing Assoc).

We only have 12 different sports. We're already under 16.

Does Sankey mean 16 total sports, or 16 teams?

You could combine XC & TF into 1 sport, since they run different times of the year and use almost the same athletes. Kids come here to run XC because they can also run the distance races during Indoor and Outdoor Track season. If you cut the TF teams, Syracuse is a less attractive destination for long distance runners.

Men's	Women's
Football
Basketball	Basketball
Soccer	Soccer
Lacrosse	Lacrosse
XC	XC
TF	TF
Rowing*	Rowing
	Field Hockey
	Ice Hockey
	Volleyball
	Tennis
	Softball

If I recall, the NCAA D1 requirement is 16 teams, the individual schools may decide which teams they wish to support. Title IX requires a balance between men/women scholarships base don student population (there are three measures, schools must meet one, I'm not an expert, just passing along info).

However, if student athletes are now employees, does that negate Title IX? I don't believe so unless everyone receives a living wage on top of the scholarship, some "floor" to ensure schools are not merely skirting Title IX. The anticipated addition of football scholarships, from 85 to 105, will also be a factor.

I hope SU is able to fund the teams it has but funds will be limited. Schools like Stanford, Texas, TAMU, tOSU, UM, etc., can afford to keep the broad scope of teams but my guess is that most schools will reduce teams to the minimum or near minimum because it frees up the limited pool of funds for others.

We can only speculate at the moment, until the court makes a final decision and the dust settles.

 

[sutomcat]

I know where it is, and I know where Syracuse is. I also know that nobody with a major football name gives half a rat's piss to play in Syracuse. That little dome attracts no one worth attracting. Ditto for central NY. So my advice is to do creative OOC scheduling to get the big name games, which will make your TV numbers higher.

All the ACC members but FSU, Clemson, and maybe VPI need tone thinking along those lines, because TV pays for TV viewers, not for Ws and not for playing I what are deemed Home fields.

Notre Dame, LSU, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Michigan, Penn State, Tennessee, Maryland, Minnesota, Michigan State, Purdue, Washington, Iowa, Illinois and Nebraska disagree with you.

All have already played in the JMA Dome.

Might be a good idea to do some research next time.

If what you’re trying to say, is that ACC schools should schedule as difficult schedules as possible, you are preaching to the choir. Please take a look at the 2025 Syracuse schedule.

If the SEC and B1G decide to only play OOC games against each other, the point is moot.

I don’t think that will happen, because a lot of these schools will need to have great OOC records in order to become bowl eligible. They aren’t going to be good with signing up for gauntlet schedules every season.

I think there’s always going to be a need to schedule fairly well regarded football opponents where a win seems likely. That’s where schools like Syracuse come in. I think we will continue to schedule home and home series with top level SEC and Big 10 schools for the foreseeable future.

 

[SmilinBob]

That's interesting, I got a text that Texas is going from 22 scholarships to 68 for crew.

 

[sutomcat]

That's interesting, I got a text that Texas is going from 22 scholarships to 68 for crew.

I think Sankey desperately does not want athletes to be considered employees, and is using this as a threat to ensure that this does not happen.

 

[FloridaCuse]

I think Sankey desperately does not want athletes to be considered employees, and is using this as a threat to ensure that this does not happen.

Absolutely what this is about. Sankey and at least most universities. They desparately want any Federal legislation to include that athletes are not considered employees.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I think Sankey desperately does not want athletes to be considered employees, and is using this as a threat to ensure that this does not happen.

correct. it's a threat to get Congress to help them out. The fact that it comes from an Ohio State congressman is no surprise.

 

[HtownOrange]

I think Sankey desperately does not want athletes to be considered employees, and is using this as a threat to ensure that this does not happen.

Agreed. Making athletes employees opens up a world of new issues, creates an imbalance between pro-union v. at-will states, opens the door for federal intervention, and who knows what else.

 

[NJCuse97]

The reason that we have seen that Syracuse reptilian Greg Sankey talk about the SEC and BT playing a league wide series of OOC games vs only each other is so that they control all OOC money as well.

And that is a reason I have come to see the ACC needing to both expunge dead weight while also getting larger: so that the league will have much better numbers of larger state flagship and land grant schools abler to do better on TV than Wake etc. If necessary, the ACC then could play up top 10 league games.

My advice to everyone is to follow the Bobby Bowden plan that was necessary to the rise of FSU football. Bowden found that most of the top football band names at the time ewer not interested in playing FSU with a straight up Home-Away series. So at times FSU would get a 2 game series, with FSU's 'home' game being played at an off campus site, such as Orlando or Tampa or Miami or Jacksonville.

TV viewers are not going to avoid watching FSU play anybody because the FSU 'home game' is in Jacksonville rather than Tallahassee. TV viewers are not going to drop in number because Syracuse plays PSU or Mich ST at Giants stadium rather than in Syracuse.

I have been making that case on UNC boards for years. UNC needs to be willing to give up a true Home game for playing in say, Charlotte if that gets UNC a series against UGA or Tennessee or some other major name brand.

If I am Dook, for example, I am begging all SEC schools but Vandy and all BT schools but Northwestern and Rutgers to play a series in which the Dook 'home' game is at a neutral site.

Cal should try to get a 4 game series vs SC, with 2 games at the Coliseum, 1 in Berkeley, and the other Cal 'home' game at the Rose Bowl.

I won't get into what team have traveled to play in the Dome (and no sutomcat, you can't say JMA if you are including games from the 90's) in large part because you're right when looking at the last 15-20 years. In the 90's we were a top ten program and commanded some control over that aspect of scheduling. I will say that we are one of the few if not the only program in conference doing what you are suggesting. We have played home games in Yankee Stadium or MetLife/Giants Stadium. My avatar is us against Wisconsin in Giants Stadium. We have played USC, ND, and PSU at MetLife and ND again at Yankee Stadium. In fact the first college football game ever played at Yankee Stadium was Syracuse beating Pitt in 1923 which was replayed on the 100th anniversary in 2023. This year, we are playing Tennessee in Atlanta. I think you're barking up the wrong tree bringing this revolutionary idea here friend. Perhaps if the rest of the conference followed our lead, the conference would be better off.

 

[HtownOrange]

Perhaps if the rest of the conference followed our lead, the conference would be better off.

... excepting a couple of bad hires your comments are on point!

 

[Toga]

If I recall, the NCAA D1 requirement is 16 teams, the individual schools may decide which teams they wish to support. Title IX requires a balance between men/women scholarships base don student population (there are three measures, schools must meet one, I'm not an expert, just passing along info).

However, if student athletes are now employees, does that negate Title IX? I don't believe so unless everyone receives a living wage on top of the scholarship, some "floor" to ensure schools are not merely skirting Title IX. The anticipated addition of football scholarships, from 85 to 105, will also be a factor.

I hope SU is able to fund the teams it has but funds will be limited. Schools like Stanford, Texas, TAMU, tOSU, UM, etc., can afford to keep the broad scope of teams but my guess is that most schools will reduce teams to the minimum or near minimum because it frees up the limited pool of funds for others.

We can only speculate at the moment, until the court makes a final decision and the dust settles.

What if the Department of Education gets blown up? Serious.

 

[HtownOrange]

What if the Department of Education gets blown up? Serious.

Title IX remains on the books, as far as I know. Even if it doesn't, the Congress is likely to reinstate it in some form or another. Most of the country and Congress want women to safely have access to sports without the dangers of men interfering. This comment is non-political, if someone wants to debate the merits of the general scope of the comment, please take it to the proper board.

P.S. It's still O.K. for women to play on men's teams, just not vice versa.

Disclaimer: Two of my daughters almost decided to play college sports, deciding against it as their courses of study were too burdensome to put in the work for a scholarship player. Nevertheless, I was glad that they had the option. If there was no Title IX, they would not have been able to compete on the men's teams.

 

[NJCuse97]

... excepting a couple of bad hires your comments are on point!

one comment not on point is about my avatar. That's us blowing up Clemson in 1996. We did blow up Wisconsin at Giants Stadium in 1997, so that part is still accurate. Fran and I were there (but not together).

 

[kcsu]

What is the thought on adding a team like UNLV to the ACC mix now that we are out west. San Diego State and of course poaching the AZ teams in a few years to build a true West Coast presence.

 

[Orangefizz]

What is the thought on adding a team like UNLV to the ACC mix now that we are out west. San Diego State and of course poaching the AZ teams in a few years to build a true West Coast presence.

Love the idea of a strong West Coast division of the ACC but don’t think it’s likely when the top brands leave for the BIG/SEC conferences. It will be interesting to see if Calford sticks with the ACC when this happens

 

[TexanMark]

What is the thought on adding a team like UNLV to the ACC mix now that we are out west. San Diego State and of course poaching the AZ teams in a few years to build a true West Coast presence.

I'd wait until 2028 or so and reachout to the Arizona twins, Utah and Colorado. Oregon State and San Diego St as alternates.

For east coast alternates: USF, UCF, Yukon, WVU, Cincy and maybe FAU.

If they ACC loses 1 NC team do not replace with a NC team. 2 or more leaving...maybe look at ECU.

 

[Toga]

I'd wait until 2028 or so and reachout to the Arizona twins, Utah and Colorado. Oregon State and San Diego St as alternates.

For east coast alternates: USF, UCF, Yukon, WVU, Cincy and maybe FAU.

If they ACC loses 1 NC team do not replace with a NC team. 2 or more leaving...maybe look at ECU.

Your top four from the West on top of Cal and Stanford would be pretty sweet.