ACC Scheduling

[CousCuse]

On a side note. I noticed that Wake is playing UNC in 20 and 21 that is not their scheduled crossover game. They must have okayed playing teams in conference and not counting them as conference games?

 

[Hoo's That]

On a side note. I noticed that Wake is playing UNC in 20 and 21 that is not their scheduled crossover game. They must have okayed playing teams in conference and not counting them as conference games?

Yes. Those are out-of-conference games that will not count in the standings for either team. They had to get Greensboro's approval to do it.

 

[CousCuse]

Yes. Those are out-of-conference games that will not count in the standings for either team. They had to get Greensboro's approval to do it.

Then the Orange should play the Cav's in a similar fashion. Could those be termed a "friendly"? Maybe play a couple of friendly's at Fedex.

 

[Hoo's That]

Then the Orange should play the Cav's in a similar fashion.

Unfortunately, our dance card is full for a while unless we start dropping those B1G teams we've signed up. What's perticularly galling is that we'd be playing each other every year if the original expansion plan had gone through.

 

[CousCuse]

Unfortunately, our dance card is full for a while unless we start dropping those B1G teams we've signed up. What's perticularly galling is that we'd be playing each other every year if the original expansion plan had gone through.

Don't go to the dark side Hoo.

 

[TerryD]

Notre Dame said they would join in football if a playoff was established and it was required to be a conference champion. If Notre Dame had joined in football, those other teams would not have left and the ACC would have been taken apart not the BE.

There was no playoff when the Big East existed.

ND has recently said this, but this has nothing at all to do with the Big East.

 

[TerryD]

The BE was always waiting on Notre Dame.

Why? ND made it very clear from 1995 onward that football would never be included.

 

[DaCuse]

What it will take is for the B1G and SEC to acknowledge:
A. The ACC is here to stay and won't implode. This is a very bitter pill for them to swallow.
B. They would benefit from adopting the 3-5-5 schedule even more than the ACC would.
C. The Big XII could implode (not likely, but still "could"), in which case Texas will be offered (for the 2nd time per one of our board gurus) "the ND deal" by the ACC and the both of them will have to go to pods to accomodate 16 teams.

are we sure the ACC will not have defections?

 

[CousCuse]

Why? ND made it very clear from 1995 onward that football would never be included.

That is disingenuous Terry as what would have been the point of adding Notre Dame's other sports? Their basketball team was very substandard at that time and who cares about the rest. It was always about the football team and if your honest you would admit that.

 

[SmilinBob]

On a side note. I noticed that Wake is playing UNC in 20 and 21 that is not their scheduled crossover game. They must have okayed playing teams in conference and not counting them as conference games?

If schools do that it means that one will have a loss and one will have a win and that overall would hurt the ACC bowl wise if true. I can see this being beneficial as it saves gas money and gets them playing each other as they have in the past (old ACC schools near each other) but I see no reason why Miami, Virginia, NC or VT would ever want to do that vs SU and travel to the Dome in a home and home.

 

[CousCuse]

If schools do that it means that one will have a loss and one will have a win and that overall would hurt the ACC bowl wise if true. I can see this being beneficial as it saves gas money and gets them playing each other as they have in the past (old ACC schools near each other) but I see no reason why Miami, Virginia, NC or VT would ever want to do that vs SU and travel to the Dome in a home and home.

You have to schedule a P5 no matter what, and that means traveling. At least this way you get to schedule teams and athletic departments that you may be friends with from the other sports.

 

[SmilinBob]

You have to schedule a P5 no matter what, and that means traveling. At least this way you get to schedule teams and athletic departments that you may be friends with from the other sports.

Very true and if 2 ACC schools are forced to make a schedule change due to XY or Z it could happen. I just don't see it being advantagous right out of the box other than what I said above.

 

[Hoo's That]

are we sure the ACC will not have defections?

The Grant of Rights, which gives the schools' TV money to the conference, was extended to 2036(?) from 2025 when the start-up of the ACC Network was announced. For a school to get out of the GOR and get their TV money back, the conference would have to vote to dissolve (same as the Big XII would have to do) and I don't see thast happening.

 

[DaCuse]

The Grant of Rights, which gives the schools' TV money to the conference, was extended to 2036(?) from 2025 when the start-up of the ACC Network was announced. For a school to get out of the GOR and get their TV money back, the conference would have to vote to dissolve (same as the Big XII would have to do) and I don't see thast happening.

but after 2036 teams like UNC or UVA could bolt right?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

but after 2036 teams like UNC or UVA could bolt right?

C-ville will be under water by then. Global warming and melting polar ice caps.

 

[Alsacs]

Hoo's That knows my idea to solve this problem.
First off 9 conference games isn’t happening.
Florida State, Clemson need 7 home games every year. They lose the ability to play 7 home games every year if the conference had 9 conference games and they play their SEC in-state rivalry game and ND every 3 years.

My solution is you rotate the divisions every 2 years.
You have a foundation of 3 schools for each division.
Division 1
UVA
Duke
UNC
Division 2
VPI
NC State
Wake

Then you divide BC/SU, Pitt/UL, FSU/Miami, Clemson/Ga. Tech

You would put 4 in each division and they play h/h within their division and then switch every 2 years.
Each school would play the 3 schools in each division above and their protected rival and the schedule would just balance out the rest of the teams so that over 4 years each team would play every stadium in the conference.

This is the 3+5+5 model.

 

[TerryD]

That is disingenuous Terry as what would have been the point of adding Notre Dame's other sports? Their basketball team was very substandard at that time and who cares about the rest. It was always about the football team and if your honest you would admit that.

If you were honest, you would admit that ND had very definitively told the Big East every time it could (and more recently the ACC) that football was not to be included.

Never once did ND give any indication that football was ever going to be added.

In fact, quite the opposite. Here is a 1994 article from when ND first joined the Big East:

"Despite MacLeod's enthusiasm, Notre Dame Athletic Director Dick Rosenthal said the alliance was not made because the basketball team couldn't compete as an independent.

"I have always maintained that we could continue as an independent. I still do," said Rosenthal, who was vacationing in Colorado. "I think the emergence of our Olympic sports as national competitors . . . . and the fact that those programs would be enhanced was a clear-cut factor.

There never was talk about including Notre Dame football."

Notre Dame Gives Up Its Independence : College: Every sport except football will compete in the Big East starting in 1995.


Both the Big East and the ACC commissioners were on record a number of times admitting that this was the case..


Here are Mike Tranghese's own words in 2003:

Q. Regarding football, I was curious to know Notre Dame's role in this and whether or not you guys would make an effort on getting Notre Dame to be playing football in the BIG EAST Conference?

MICHAEL TRANGHESE: Let me talk about Notre Dame. Father Malloy is here, Kevin White is here. When we went to Notre Dame in the mid '90s and extended an invitation to them to come into this league, there was no discussion about football. In fact, at the time, I told Father when we met for the first time that "this is what our interest was" and "this is what his interest was." I mean, Notre Dame has put a high degree or high value on being a football independent; we accept that. We talked about things. I think that Notre Dame has helped us to cooperate in a variety of ways that are not public. Our membership is thrilled with the fact that Notre Dame is in this league. It's interesting. When we had our Presidents meeting many years ago to discuss Notre Dame, I told our Presidents that these are the things that Notre Dame will contribute to the league. And they have not only done all of that, they've gone far beyond it. You just look at they've won a National Championship of women's basketball, men's basketball, soccer, all other things. More importantly, they're a good partner. They're open with us. They're honest with us. I think not you, but the public, doesn't understand what we're doing at times. They're more annoyed or upset with it. We have a great relationship with Notre Dame, and it's going to continue the way it is."

ASAP Sports Transcripts - Basketball - 2003 - PRESS CONFERENCES - BIG EAST MEDIA CONFERENCE - November 4

Your apology is accepted. I was not being "disingenuous" at all. Quite the contrary.

 

[CousCuse]

If you were honest, you would admit that ND had very definitively told the Big East every time it could (and more recently the ACC) that football was not to be included.

Never once did ND give any indication that football was ever going to be added.

In fact, quite the opposite. Here is a 1994 article from when ND first joined the Big East:

"Despite MacLeod's enthusiasm, Notre Dame Athletic Director Dick Rosenthal said the alliance was not made because the basketball team couldn't compete as an independent.

"I have always maintained that we could continue as an independent. I still do," said Rosenthal, who was vacationing in Colorado. "I think the emergence of our Olympic sports as national competitors . . . . and the fact that those programs would be enhanced was a clear-cut factor.

There never was talk about including Notre Dame football."

Notre Dame Gives Up Its Independence : College: Every sport except football will compete in the Big East starting in 1995.


Both the Big East and the ACC commissioners were on record a number of times admitting that this was the case..


Here are Mike Tranghese's own words in 2003:

Q. Regarding football, I was curious to know Notre Dame's role in this and whether or not you guys would make an effort on getting Notre Dame to be playing football in the BIG EAST Conference?

MICHAEL TRANGHESE: Let me talk about Notre Dame. Father Malloy is here, Kevin White is here. When we went to Notre Dame in the mid '90s and extended an invitation to them to come into this league, there was no discussion about football. In fact, at the time, I told Father when we met for the first time that "this is what our interest was" and "this is what his interest was." I mean, Notre Dame has put a high degree or high value on being a football independent; we accept that. We talked about things. I think that Notre Dame has helped us to cooperate in a variety of ways that are not public. Our membership is thrilled with the fact that Notre Dame is in this league. It's interesting. When we had our Presidents meeting many years ago to discuss Notre Dame, I told our Presidents that these are the things that Notre Dame will contribute to the league. And they have not only done all of that, they've gone far beyond it. You just look at they've won a National Championship of women's basketball, men's basketball, soccer, all other things. More importantly, they're a good partner. They're open with us. They're honest with us. I think not you, but the public, doesn't understand what we're doing at times. They're more annoyed or upset with it. We have a great relationship with Notre Dame, and it's going to continue the way it is."

ASAP Sports Transcripts - Basketball - 2003 - PRESS CONFERENCES - BIG EAST MEDIA CONFERENCE - November 4

Your apology is accepted. I was not being "disingenuous" at all. Quite the contrary.

Then they should not have been invited into the Big East. It made the the Big East look even more desperate and second rate.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Hoo's That knows my idea to solve this problem.
First off 9 conference games isn’t happening.
Florida State, Clemson need 7 home games every year. They lose the ability to play 7 home games every year if the conference had 9 conference games and they play their SEC in-state rivalry game and ND every 3 years.

My solution is you rotate the divisions every 2 years.
You have a foundation of 3 schools for each division.
Division 1
UVA
Duke
UNC
Division 2
VPI
NC State
Wake

Then you divide BC/SU, Pitt/UL, FSU/Miami, Clemson/Ga. Tech

You would put 4 in each division and they play h/h within their division and then switch every 2 years.
Each school would play the 3 schools in each division above and their protected rival and the schedule would just balance out the rest of the teams so that over 4 years each team would play every stadium in the conference.

This is the 3+5+5 model.

The P5 should break away in football and all play 10 conference games, two OOC P5 games, and one G5/FCS game.

A team like FSU gets to play Florida and one open P5 game.

The networks would be happy.

Go back to 100 scholarships too. Why leave any talent for the G5?

Each conference should go to three divisions with the winners in a conference playoff. ACC with ND is at 3 by 5. SEC and B1G would need to add one team each. P12 can be 3 by 4, and B12 can expand by 2 to have 3 by 4.

National Playoffs will be conference champs plus one wild card.

 

[CousCuse]

Then they should not have been invited into the Big East. It made the the Big East look even more desperate and second rate.

Also, it should be noted that Notre Dame got every benefit they could for themselves from the Big East while they gave nothing to help bolster the conference that we loved and instead stood by and watched it die.

 

[Alsacs]

The P5 should break away in football and all play 10 conference games, two OOC P5 games, and one G5/FCS game.

A team like FSU gets to play Florida and one open P5 game.

The networks would be happy.

Go back to 100 scholarships too. Why leave any talent for the G5?

Each conference should go to three divisions with the winners in a conference playoff. ACC with ND is at 3 by 5. SEC and B1G would need to add one team each. P12 can be 3 by 4, and B12 can expand by 2 to have 3 by 4.

National Playoffs will be conference champs plus one wild card.

The P5 will break away when one of the P5 gets devoured by the rest.
Money is on the Big XII but as long as Texas is happy it will remain the way it is now.
The Big Ten wanted to carve up the ACC but that didn’t happen.
Once the one of the P5 gets carved up we will see P4 and each conference champ get in the playoff and they will add 2 more playoff teams.
3 vs. 6
4 vs.5
Lowest team vs. 1
Highest team vs. 2

 

[HtownOrange]

Notre Dame said they would join in football if a playoff was established and it was required to be a conference champion. If Notre Dame had joined in football, those other teams would not have left and the ACC would have been taken apart not the BE.

Syracuse and BC were the only football schools among the original Big East teams (UConn had not yet stepped up to D-1). Any blame on ND is nonsense. In truth, ND began playing other Big East schools towards the end to assist the conference.

Could they have salvaged the Big ast by joining in football? Possibly, but not likely. Not wrth discussing as it is in the past.

 

[CousCuse]

Syracuse and BC were the only football schools among the original Big East teams (UConn had not yet stepped up to D-1). Any blame on ND is nonsense. In truth, ND began playing other Big East schools towards the end to assist the conference.

Could they have salvaged the Big ast by joining in football? Possibly, but not likely. Not wrth discussing as it is in the past.

As it stands now, we are going to be playing Notre Dame way more often then the teams in the Coastal that are in our conference. I think most ACC fans would rather play teams in our conference than the special exception case who gets to have their cake and eat it to. This arrangement started with the Big East and has continued with the ACC and was insulting then and still is now.

 

[TerryD]

"Absent Notre Dame, there might not well be an ACC Network. Its name was a driving force in ESPN exploring the project, a development that quickly led to the conference’s 2013 grant of media rights, which bound members to the league through 2027 – the grant has since been extended through 2036."

"Also understand that since the Irish began ACC competition in 2013-14, the conference’s guaranteed television revenue has increased 48.6 percent, from $146.6 million to $217.9 million. Not all of that is attributable to Notre Dame, but its presence sure helped.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...-post.html

 

[Alsacs]

Syracuse and BC were the only football schools among the original Big East teams (UConn had not yet stepped up to D-1). Any blame on ND is nonsense. In truth, ND began playing other Big East schools towards the end to assist the conference.

Could they have salvaged the Big ast by joining in football? Possibly, but not likely. Not wrth discussing as it is in the past.

Only thing I disagree with is ND didn’t play BE schools like partners. ND were elitist jerks.
They only played Pitt home/home.
They didn’t schedule WVU, UL, Cindy, USF, Rutgers.
They only played UConn at home because UConn wouldn’t play its home games at Foxboro or MetLife.
They played Syracuse 2 for 1 and then only MetLife/home.
They were greedy af while they were using the Big East for the best basketball conference and Olympic sports.
I never expected ND to join the BE football conference ever. However they never even tried to help the football schools at all.
ND is all about ND.
The ACC made them sign an agreement to play 5 teams annually. They only had a verbal agreement to help the BE football schools.
Marinatto was the worst commissioner of alltime.
All he cared about was protecting PC and it’s basketball affiliation.
I would prefer we never play ND ever again in football. The program thinks way too much of itself.