Access to the program - what does this look like?

[FrancoPizza]

Full disclaimer - this post is submitted as an open question. There is no bias or judgment - simply a desire to be somewhat educated on a topic that keeps coming up in some recent discussions.

From what I'm reading here - one of the factors guaranteeing that Red gets a 3rd year is the support of financial backers who have connections to the JB tree. The theory goes that these backers have unique "access" to the program. The insinuation is that if Red goes they will lose this access and they don't want that to happen. Ok so far I'm loosely following.

1. But what type of access are we talking and what makes this such a tantalizing carrot? Being able to watch closed practices? Sitting in the locker room during a halftime pep talk? Being able to ride a private jet to schmooze with recruits? Dinners at Red's house? I'm genuinely curious why this is such a strong factor given the tumultuous times we're in.

2. A new coach and non-alum staff would allegedly remove this access driver from the equation, but why wouldn't a new staff value the goodwill and generosity of donors and trustees and welcome them with open arms? I guess I don't see what the fears are.

 

[CuseFan]

Great questions! Definitely interested in learning theories or facts behind this.

 

[dasher]

Full disclaimer - this post is submitted as an open question. There is no bias or judgment - simply a desire to be somewhat educated on a topic that keeps coming up in some recent discussions.

From what I'm reading here - one of the factors guaranteeing that Red gets a 3rd year is the support of financial backers who have connections to the JB tree. The theory goes that these backers have unique "access" to the program. The insinuation is that if Red goes they will lose this access and they don't want that to happen. Ok so far I'm loosely following.

1. But what type of access are we talking and what makes this such a tantalizing carrot? Being able to watch closed practices? Sitting in the locker room during a halftime pep talk? Being able to ride a private jet to schmooze with recruits? Dinners at Red's house? I'm genuinely curious why this is such a strong factor given the tumultuous times we're in.

2. A new coach and non-alum staff would allegedly remove this access driver from the equation, but why wouldn't a new staff value the goodwill and generosity of donors and trustees and welcome them with open arms? I guess I don't see what the fears are.

I don't think any of that has anything at all to do with Red getting year 3. I mean nothing. There are two factors that I think are in play. Number one is money. I believe Red had a 5 year deal at 3 million a year. That would mean we owe him 9 million bucks. Plus, we would have to pay another coach. Two, I think the athletic dept wants to be fair to Red. He inherited a bunch of nitwits last year. And they didn't have a good system for the portal last year. Now, I worry that we are putting too many eggs in Kleins basket. But that is the way I see it right now.

 

[tptcuse]

I don't think any of that has anything at all to do with Red getting year 3. I mean nothing. There are two factors that I think are in play. Number one is money. I believe Red had a 5 year deal at 3 million a year. That would mean we owe him 9 million bucks. Plus, we would have to pay another coach. Two, I think the athletic dept wants to be fair to Red. He inherited a bunch of nitwits last year. And they didn't have a good system for the portal last year. Now, I worry that we are putting too many eggs in Kleins basket. But that is the way I see it right now.

I still find it hard to believe he got $3 million a year.

 

[RyanCuse44]

I still find it hard to believe he got $3 million a year.

Agreed since he had no prior HC gigs.

 

[dasher]

I still find it hard to believe he got $3 million a year.

That is the word I got from people who would know. The 5 years is actually more troubling. But that is pretty standard as well.

 

[wiCuse]

That is the word I got from people who would know. The 5 years is actually more troubling. But that is pretty standard as well.

If there's no improvement the rest of the season do you think a donor/s will approach JW to buy Red out? This isn't getting any better.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Full disclaimer - this post is submitted as an open question. There is no bias or judgment - simply a desire to be somewhat educated on a topic that keeps coming up in some recent discussions.

From what I'm reading here - one of the factors guaranteeing that Red gets a 3rd year is the support of financial backers who have connections to the JB tree. The theory goes that these backers have unique "access" to the program. The insinuation is that if Red goes they will lose this access and they don't want that to happen. Ok so far I'm loosely following.

1. But what type of access are we talking and what makes this such a tantalizing carrot? Being able to watch closed practices? Sitting in the locker room during a halftime pep talk? Being able to ride a private jet to schmooze with recruits? Dinners at Red's house? I'm genuinely curious why this is such a strong factor given the tumultuous times we're in.

2. A new coach and non-alum staff would allegedly remove this access driver from the equation, but why wouldn't a new staff value the goodwill and generosity of donors and trustees and welcome them with open arms? I guess I don't see what the fears are.

Cool question, but i'm not understanding why a new coach would 'lock out' these financial backers. Why wouldn't there be a simple continuity with their "access?" Unless Red himself brought a particular set of financiers into his camp. But, that seems unlikely. If they were remnants from JB and just carried over, isn't their interest in that access more important than who the HC is? And wouldn't they want access into a program that is actually good, rather than one that is just headed by someone familiar?

I'm with you—i don't understand any of the whole Booster thing.

 

[CuseIn282xx]

I still find it hard to believe he got $3 million a year.

Men's Basketball Head Coach Salaries - USA TODAY

Ever wondered who the highest paid coach in men's basketball is? Find out today with USA TODAY's complete salary data.

sportsdata.usatoday.com

As of almost a year ago, there were at least 41 HC's in college basketball who were making at least $3mm/yr.

So AA getting $3mm/yr or more is very plausible, and likely probable.

 

[kingtidge]

Men's Basketball Head Coach Salaries - USA TODAY

Ever wondered who the highest paid coach in men's basketball is? Find out today with USA TODAY's complete salary data.

sportsdata.usatoday.com

As of almost a year ago, there were at least 41 HC's in college basketball who were making at least $3mm/yr.

So AA getting $3mm/yr or more is very plausible, and likely probable.

Yeah, the 5 year length is the problem.

 

[phil77]

I still find it hard to believe he got $3 million a year.

5 year 3 mil per with no outs or anything for an unproven first-time coach who has never even interviewed for another P4 job is wild.

 

[FloridaCuse]

There's one issue that probably wasn't considered when he was hired and given $3 million for 5 years -- it was assumed he could coach.

 

[OttosShoes]

Full disclaimer - this post is submitted as an open question. There is no bias or judgment - simply a desire to be somewhat educated on a topic that keeps coming up in some recent discussions.

From what I'm reading here - one of the factors guaranteeing that Red gets a 3rd year is the support of financial backers who have connections to the JB tree. The theory goes that these backers have unique "access" to the program. The insinuation is that if Red goes they will lose this access and they don't want that to happen. Ok so far I'm loosely following.

1. But what type of access are we talking and what makes this such a tantalizing carrot? Being able to watch closed practices? Sitting in the locker room during a halftime pep talk? Being able to ride a private jet to schmooze with recruits? Dinners at Red's house? I'm genuinely curious why this is such a strong factor given the tumultuous times we're in.

2. A new coach and non-alum staff would allegedly remove this access driver from the equation, but why wouldn't a new staff value the goodwill and generosity of donors and trustees and welcome them with open arms? I guess I don't see what the fears are.

A lot of stuff people say in these situations is trying to cope with a crappy situation. Human nature is to try and assign blame or reason or whatever, but the reality is...some situations just suck. Without any blame or easy explanations, they just suck.

I don't believe the three years thing is any sort of super secret scandalous donor special, nor that there's any overly specific rationale to blame. Rather I think it's just the reality of managing a big organization and big contracts.

As far as being connected to the program; you don't have to be a donor to have an ear to the ground, and being a donor doesn't automatically get you any sway. Personally I am a small (maybe medium?) donor, and I also hear things. The two things aren't completely separate but are actually pretty loosely related. The former mostly gets me good seats and occasionally invitations. The latter is far more a function of me being personable, curious, and knowing lots of people than it is being a donor.

And I'm sure it'd increase with bigger donations but I have basically zero sway. Although, one time I'm pretty sure I cajole'd Fran into accepting a penalty--and that penalty worked out--so I am quite proud of that lolol.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That is the word I got from people who would know. The 5 years is actually more troubling. But that is pretty standard as well.

Hubert isn’t even getting 3 million and he started out under 2. If that’s the case we blew it. Unbelievably dumb.

 

[CuseIn282xx]

Yeah, the 5 year thing is the problem.

I was just responding to the poster who said, "I still find it hard to believe he got $3 million a year."

 

[CuseIn282xx]

Hubert isn’t even getting 3 million and he started out under 2. If that’s the case we blew it. Unbelievably dumb.

Hubert made almost $17 mill in the NBA, and that was as of 20 years ago. Money may not have been the only motivation for him. I live in NC. College basketball is a religion down here, much bigger than SU basketball is in CNY. Sorry, just a fact.

Also, there are more avenues for him make outside money down here. Plus, if he is successful, his next contract could likely double in AAV. That wouldn't happen in Syracuse.

 

[Sbucketball]

5x3 is utter incompetence by SU. 2x1 easily would have done it. 3x1 if necessary to attract a good staff.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hubert made almost $17 mill in the NBA, and that was as of 20 years ago. Money may not have been the only motivation for him. I live in NC. College basketball is a religion down here, much bigger than SU basketball is in CNY. Sorry, just a fact.

Also, there are more avenues for him make outside money down here. Plus, if he is successful, his next contract could likely double in AAV. That wouldn't happen in Syracuse.

And they still paid him 1.8 million to start. We paid Red 3. It’s lunacy. Everything else you posted is window dressing. In case you haven’t figured out there’s a lot of pissed off people around here because we suck.

 

[HyattsCuse]

I don't think any of that has anything at all to do with Red getting year 3. I mean nothing. There are two factors that I think are in play. Number one is money. I believe Red had a 5 year deal at 3 million a year. That would mean we owe him 9 million bucks. Plus, we would have to pay another coach. Two, I think the athletic dept wants to be fair to Red. He inherited a bunch of nitwits last year. And they didn't have a good system for the portal last year. Now, I worry that we are putting too many eggs in Kleins basket. But that is the way I see it right now.

Makes sense. I hope they add a good offense system and good defensive system to that list for year 3.

 

[kingtidge]

5x3 is utter incompetence by SU. 2x1 easily would have done it. 3x1 if necessary to attract a good staff.

If it really is 5x3 and things continue on this trajectory, it won't be just Red that doesn't survive this.

 

[miamicuse]

Any chance the 3M figure is not Red's wages but the entire budget for all the coaches given to Red as he sees fit? Say 3 ACs at 400K per that's 1.2M leaving Red with 1.8M?

...and any chance the 3M is the total over 5 years at an average of 600k per year?

Anyone know if JB was on a year to year contract when he retired? Any chance SU is paying JB a buyout in exchange for his exit?

 

[Brooky03]

I don't think any of that has anything at all to do with Red getting year 3. I mean nothing. There are two factors that I think are in play. Number one is money. I believe Red had a 5 year deal at 3 million a year. That would mean we owe him 9 million bucks. Plus, we would have to pay another coach. Two, I think the athletic dept wants to be fair to Red. He inherited a bunch of nitwits last year. And they didn't have a good system for the portal last year. Now, I worry that we are putting too many eggs in Kleins basket. But that is the way I see it right now.

The contract was signed with zero performance modifiers? Syracuse had all of the leverage and Red had little/none. How was, “hey, you can’t finish under .300, dude” not part of the deal?

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Hubert isn’t even getting 3 million and he started out under 2. If that’s the case we blew it. Unbelievably dumb.

Yep. Who was JW bidding against?