Adam Silver trying to end the one and done...

[W'boro'Cuse315]

Other than careers that are regulated by the state or federal government through licensing, I struggle to come up with another occupation that requires it's employees to have at least one year of college or be 19.

& other than the NBA & NFL, is there even any other sports leagues in the World? I can't think of any.

 

[texascpa]

& other than the NBA & NFL, is there even any other sports leagues in the World? I can't think of any.

Me neither. MLB and NHL sign right out of high school. Soccer, even younger in many countries. You don't even have to be 18 to play in a pro golf tournament. See Michelle Wie who turned professional at 16.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Other than careers that are regulated by the state or federal government through licensing, I struggle to come up with another occupation that requires it's employees to have at least one year of college or be 19.

Most occupations are stricter. Try to be a teacher without a degree, a doctor, an accountant, an engineer, ever even take a civil service test? There are even tests for recreation aides that required 2 years of college, social service caseworker - years of education and/or experience, - you can’t even take the tests less get a job without fulfilling the education/experience requirements. Life is filled with prerequisites.

That’s why high school graduates options are so limited. Every day people without an education or experience many wanting just low paying jobs are faced with the circular logic - no experience, no education - no job. Yet when you are being denied a job because you have no experience how do you get the experience? NBA like any other profession has the right to set their professional standards whether one likes it or not.

 

[texascpa]

Most occupations are stricter. Try to be a teacher without a degree, a doctor, an accountant, an engineer, ever even take a civil service test? There are even tests for recreation aides that required 2 years of college, social service caseworker - years of education and/or experience, - you can’t even take the tests less get a job without fulfilling the education/experience requirements. Life is filled with prerequisites.

That’s why high school graduates options are so limited. Every day people without an education or experience many wanting just low paying jobs are faced with the circular logic - no experience, no education - no job. Yet when you are being denied a job because you have no experience how do you get the experience? NBA like any other profession has the right to set their professional standards whether one likes it or not.

You're misreading what I posted. Doctors, CPA's (accountants don't fall in this realm), and teachers need certain certification by states. Interestingly, anyone can be an accountant. There is no state certification to be an accountant, and I know several people who are in the accounting/finance field who do not have a degree in such. Social Service worker, Caseworker, teachers are all state/federal jobs. So, yes, they have certain requirements. But, you can be a plumber's apprentice right out of HS without a certification, same goes with a journeyman, and accountants/bookkeepers, managers, etc, etc. There are no age, education or licensing requirements. There may be business requirements, but those aren't directly on age, they're on experience (as you pointed out). NBA's rules are specifically around age (I would even argue, illegally). 18 year old basketball phenoms have plenty of experience.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The NBA should do what puts the best product on the court. All employers have entry level requirements aimed at increasing the probability they get quality personnel and those same companies will set those requirements aside for exceptional rare talent. The NBA should be no different.

But it's based on age mot something like a degree or certification.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Most occupations are stricter. Try to be a teacher without a degree, a doctor, an accountant, an engineer, ever even take a civil service test? There are even tests for recreation aides that required 2 years of college, social service caseworker - years of education and/or experience, - you can’t even take the tests less get a job without fulfilling the education/experience requirements. Life is filled with prerequisites.

That’s why high school graduates options are so limited. Every day people without an education or experience many wanting just low paying jobs are faced with the circular logic - no experience, no education - no job. Yet when you are being denied a job because you have no experience how do you get the experience? NBA like any other profession has the right to set their professional standards whether one likes it or not.

Those aren't based on artificial age restrictions.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I don't like this. I prefer the NFL's rule.
I don't need to see the NBA watered-down with unready kids who also haven't yet established their own 'brands.' What will i care, about an 18-year old kid who i've never seen play in college?
The NBA should be encouraging ALL people to get as much education as possible. That should be the societal goal. And the NBA, if it's going to be genuine in wanting college students to be college students should require they leave college in good academic standing.
If they do enact such a rule, put limits on the number of kids that can enter without college. Like 5. If there really is another Kevin Garnett or Kobe, they sh0uld be in that five.
Have the draft a bit earlier, so that college programs can set their rosters just that bit sooner with commitments from those who aren't drafted.

 

[sufandu]

But it's based on age mot something like a degree or certification.

I think it's actually both, 1 year out of high school and at least 19, maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, it would be easy to fix with language. Everyone knows the reason for the rule was to try to weed out the guys that were horrible but GMs kept taking flyers on. You simply say 1 year, or 2 or 3 or whatever, of post high school experience. Any job with any real qualifications asks for something like that. People have to complete internships, clinicals, etc. It's not out the question to require someone to have some sort of experience, whether it be college, european pros, or some sort of minor league, before they're eligible to sign a guaranteed multimillion dollar contract. The fact that people want to treat these guys differently than any normal person trying to get a decent job, one that probably pays far less, is ludicrous. It really speaks to the way our culture has elevated sports to a religion and athletes to gods.

 

[sufandu]

Those aren't based on artificial age restrictions.

The point of her post is that the employer sets the entry requirements to try to get adequate job candidates. Anyone that watched the NBA pre one and done with all of the straight out of high school jumpers saw how bad the product was. The NBA had to do something. Was it the best rule? No. That's why they want to change it. And if the next one doesn't work, they should change it again.

 

[texascpa]

The point of her post is that the employer sets the entry requirements to try to get adequate job candidates. Anyone that watched the NBA pre one and done with all of the straight out of high school jumpers saw how bad the product was. The NBA had to do something. Was it the best rule? No. That's why they want to change it. And if the next one doesn't work, they should change it again.

But, you can't necessarily set arbitrary age restrictions for qualification. This starts to cross the line of age discrimination. That's why I would argue that it's not legal to do so.

 

[Alsacs]

But, you can't necessarily set arbitrary age restrictions for qualification. This starts to cross the line of age discrimination. That's why I would argue that it's not legal to do so.

The NBA can collectively bargain any age for qualification.
That is why this rule won’t change unless it’s collectively bargained with the Players Asssociation.

 

[sufandu]

But, you can't necessarily set arbitrary age restrictions for qualification. This starts to cross the line of age discrimination. That's why I would argue that it's not legal to do so.

Read my other post right above the one you quoted.

 

[texascpa]

The NBA can collectively bargain any age for qualification.
That is why this rule won’t change unless it’s collectively bargained with the Players Asssociation.

Seems you may be right if it passes what's call the Mackey Rule. Here's an interesting review of age requirements in the NFL and NBA. It was written in 2006 and it partially focuses on the Clarett case when he had to leave OSU early. Initial ruling was the NFL age requirements failed the Mackey test so it was subject to antitrust scrutiny. This decision was overturned by an Appeals Court, but not because of the Mackey test but other reasons. I didn't get into the NBA age argument because my head was spinning after getting done with the Clarett case.

 

[sufandu]

You're misreading what I posted. Doctors, CPA's (accountants don't fall in this realm), and teachers need certain certification by states. Interestingly, anyone can be an accountant. There is no state certification to be an accountant, and I know several people who are in the accounting/finance field who do not have a degree in such. Social Service worker, Caseworker, teachers are all state/federal jobs. So, yes, they have certain requirements. But, you can be a plumber's apprentice right out of HS without a certification, same goes with a journeyman, and accountants/bookkeepers, managers, etc, etc. There are no age, education or licensing requirements. There may be business requirements, but those aren't directly on age, they're on experience (as you pointed out). NBA's rules are specifically around age (I would even argue, illegally). 18 year old basketball phenoms have plenty of experience.

While it's true that some professions have state required certifications or licenses, that doesn't mean individual employers can't require more. In physical therapy, most home health companies try not to hire a brand new graduate. Because of the isolation of working by yourself, in the pt's homes, and the challenges that go along with it, they want people with at least one yearm of experience where they've had the opportunity to be mentored by experienced clinicians. Along the same lines of accountants there is no law requiring a credential or minimum amount of education to call yourself a personal trainer. Individual gyms set there own requirements that applicants must meet to be considered for employment. I heard of one that a former colleague interviewed with requires it's trainers to stay below a certain bodyfat percentage. Others require credentials from specific companies. The employer has the right to set their criteria, especially when they're paying million+ dollar salaries. I agree the arbitrary age thing could be considered age discrimination, but with a high profile employer like the NBA, you would think that would've been addressed legally by now, if it was. Regardless, like I said before, it's easy to get around with different language.

 

[texascpa]

Read my other post right above the one you quoted.

As pointed out in the case review that I linked to in the post right below this one, an employer can not arbitrarily set an age requirement. It violates competitive markets and is subject to antitrust regulation under the Sherman Act. However, it seems if there is a bargained agreement between employer and union, then it may pass what's called the Mackey Test.

 

[texascpa]

While it's true that some professions have state required certifications or licenses, that doesn't mean individual employers can't require more. In physical therapy, most home health companies try not to hire a brand new graduate. Because of the isolation of working by yourself, in the pt's homes, and the challenges that go along with it, they want people with at least one yearm of experience where they've had the opportunity to be mentored by experienced clinicians. Along the same lines of accountants there is no law requiring a credential or minimum amount of education to call yourself a personal trainer. Individual gyms set there own requirements that applicants must meet to be considered for employment. I heard of one that a former colleague interviewed with requires it's trainers to stay below a certain bodyfat percentage. Others require credentials from specific companies. The employer has the right to set their criteria, especially when they're paying million+ dollar salaries. I agree the arbitrary age thing could be considered age discrimination, but with a high profile employer like the NBA, you would think that would've been addressed legally by now, if it was. Regardless, like I said before, it's easy to get around with different language.

Not arguing that. They can certainly require degrees and experience, but they can't unilaterally, directly set an age limit. see post above.

 

[sufandu]

As pointed out in the case review that I linked to in the post right below this one, an employer can not arbitrarily set an age requirement. It violates competitive markets and is subject to antitrust regulation under the Sherman Act. However, it seems if there is a bargained agreement between employer and union, then it may pass what's called the Mackey Test.

You didn't read my post. In it, I said you require experience instead of an age. Employers ask for that all of the time.

 

[sufandu]

Not arguing that. They can certainly require degrees and experience, but they can't unilaterally, directly set an age limit. see post above.

I get that. I said so in the post. Did you read the whole thing?

I saw the post with the link. That answered my question I asked earlier about addressing the legalities of it.

 

[pfister1]

Yes, OAD was invented as a way for the owners to get the reluctant Players Assoc. to agree to "Stop me before I draft Kwame Brown again." Now, the owners want to change the rule and the players don't.

You would think that the Players' Assoc. would support it. It would end up providing some protection to their members that have proven that they actually belong in the league. If you had more kids coming straight out of high school the owners would likely have to treat them more like developmental prospects and use the G league more heavily for players entering through the draft.

The players that go to college would be easier to evaluate and there would ultimately be fewer rosters spots given to guys who are never going to be good enough to help a team. Those spots would stick with older guys that have proven that they can help, but are getting cut now so that teams can chase the potential a younger guy shows.

Count me in the group that doesn't think that the NCAA should allow itself to be used as a developmental league. But, the NCAA and colleges are whores so they'll do anything that they think makes them money, hence we have the NCAA accepting the idea of the one and done. And for those that say that it is an NBA rule and nothing that the NCAA can do about it, you are wrong. The NCAA could develop its own rules that incentivize schools to stay away from prospects that have no interest in pursuing a college degree.

 

[pfister1]

Other than careers that are regulated by the state or federal government through licensing, I struggle to come up with another occupation that requires it's employees to have at least one year of college or be 19.

It's not an occupation that requires it, it is an employer. You can go play basketball elsewhere if you don't meet the eligibility rules, you just can't play in the NBA.

 

[alphaorange]

Could the NBA and NCAA come to an arrangement? Lets say I am a talented athlete and I declare for the draft because I want to strike while the iron's hot and get a commitment to get paid, BUT I'd really like to continue to develop my athletic and educational abilities in college instead of riding the bench in the NBA or playing in the G-League.

So I declare for the draft and get drafted and I exercise a new "continue college" option, where upon signing I can express to the team that drafted me that I wish to continue college. The team still commits to a contract but a small portion of it is paid to me while I complete/continue college. Meanwhile, we reward and make up the difference to the NBA team with a salary cap write-off. As a bonus, the team that drafted me also gets a more educated player to join their roster at a future date.

I don't think that works for the NBA. A team could realistically defer players while continuing to lose and get high draft picks...essentially tanking without tanking. A team could end up with 3 or more players "stashed" in college. The better teams would be additionally penalized.

 

[alphaorange]

You're misreading what I posted. Doctors, CPA's (accountants don't fall in this realm), and teachers need certain certification by states. Interestingly, anyone can be an accountant. There is no state certification to be an accountant, and I know several people who are in the accounting/finance field who do not have a degree in such. Social Service worker, Caseworker, teachers are all state/federal jobs. So, yes, they have certain requirements. But, you can be a plumber's apprentice right out of HS without a certification, same goes with a journeyman, and accountants/bookkeepers, managers, etc, etc. There are no age, education or licensing requirements. There may be business requirements, but those aren't directly on age, they're on experience (as you pointed out). NBA's rules are specifically around age (I would even argue, illegally). 18 year old basketball phenoms have plenty of experience.

Apprentices are essentially participating in their education to earn a journeyman's credentials. Most journeymen are certified. As a Tool and Die maker, I was certified by both my employer and NYS. It was a 4 year program that also required passing school courses.

 

[Sherman20]

Trying to allow kids to come directly out of high school and if they don't at least 2 years in college. Hopefully this happens. The Dooks and Kentucky's are probably going to hate it but oh well.

Sources: Silver meets NCAA to talk 1-and-done

I don’t love this. I wanna see the best kids play college basketball at least for 1 year.

 

[texascpa]

It's not an occupation that requires it, it is an employer. You can go play basketball elsewhere if you don't meet the eligibility rules, you just can't play in the NBA.

Read the case law I posted. Under the Sherman Act, an employer can't unilaterally, directly restrict employment due to age. However, in certain collective bargaining agreements that pass specific legalities such as the the Mackey Test seemingly can.

I think too many people are mixing up age restriction versus education/experience restriction. There is a huge difference.

 

[GardenOrange]

This is why they should make the rule 3 years... hopefully a lot of the funny money would be taken out of college hoops if the sure things were out of the system entirely. The reality is that college should be about learning not sports and way too much money is wasted on college sports when it could go to a lot better causes. Secondarily college hoops is a terrible product because there is no continuity... coaches essentially have 30 days to get a brand new team ready for a season. I disagree that if this rule passes the blue bloods would benefit... I think this would improve parity a ton because just about every projectable kid and sure thing would go pro without going to college so the blue bloods would have to get players and take chances just like everyone else. The game would go back to coaching and systems instead of who is the best briber/recruiter out there.

Agree totally. College system should not be concerned about individual players ability to make money or salary clocks. That's not what college is supposed to be about. The question is - Has this train left the station or can college basketball make a course correction and fix this to return college hoops to what it should be?