After the 1st Game, I made a Post That Cr@pped on Dion

[OttoMets]

Badly misused? You ever think some of that was Paul's issues (like the vast majority of it). We see, what, 5% of everything that happens in the program?

It was both.

He was misused; came to the wrong school, played the wrong position. He also did some goofy things that no teammate ought to do. I'm not going to impugn him for that, though. He should've acted more maturely, but he did take a lot of unjustified heat from Boeheim while some of his teammates didn't. He shouldn't have behaved as he did, but we shouldn't be surprised that he did. And he was a stand-up guy - never did he get caught up in that personal nonsense that Devendorf, Flynn, Jackson, and Scoop did during those years.

 

[OttoMets]

I thought KJo and Scoop were suppose to be THE GUY(s) this year. I'm sure he will average 12ppg.

I hope Scoop isn't the guy. I'm one of the biggest Scoop proponents on the board, but if Scoop is The Guy, I think we'll lose 10 games.

 

[rrlbees]

I hope Scoop isn't the guy. I'm one of the biggest Scoop proponents on the board, but if Scoop is The Guy, I think we'll lose 10 games.

The guy doesn't have to be the scorer. But for better or worse, this is suppose to be Scoops and KJos year to shine and lead.

 

[orange03]

The upperclassmen are all solid basketball players and have been through the BEAST, but the younger guys are more talented. This should be Scoop and KJo's team, but I expect a lot of production from MCW, Waiters and Fair.

 

[BlackSquirrels]

It should be Dion's job to lose. Triche for whatever reason has been handed the starting gig since he's been here. I know it's more important who finishes the game, but I just don't get why Triche automatically earns the job.

I read this and was puzzled because I remembered Triche playing better than Waiters during conference play last year. I thought maybe my memory was off, so I took a look at each player's game log and added up the following numbers, which include conference and postseason games.

Player, FG%, 3FG%, FT%, A/TO
Triche, 41.2%, 34.9%, 88.7%, 1.16
Waiters, 37.5%, 30.8%, 77.3%, 1.33

Looking at those numbers, I have a hard time seeing how someone can conclude that Triche has been "handed" the starting job this year unless you're going to assert that Waiters is a far better defender. That would be highly suspect.

I hope Waiters plays well enough to make this issue more debatable this year. At this point, it's not.

 

[orange03]

I read this and was puzzled because I remembered Triche playing better than Waiters during conference play last year. I thought maybe my memory was off, so I took a look at each player's game log and added up the following numbers, which include conference and postseason games.

Player, FG%, 3FG%, FT%, A/TO
Triche, 41.2%, 34.9%, 88.7%, 1.16
Waiters, 37.5%, 30.8%, 77.3%, 1.33

Looking at those numbers, I have a hard time seeing how someone can conclude that Triche has been "handed" the starting job this year unless you're going to assert that Waiters is a far better defender. That would be highly suspect.

I hope Waiters plays well enough to make this issue more debatable this year. At this point, it's not.

The numbers only tell a part of the story. Triche is a 2 year starter with a ton of game experience--those numbers are disappointing given that. What would Waiters numbers look like with more minutes or experience? I hope the best man wins because ultimately it benefits Syracuse. I really don't have a dog in the fight, just going by what I see. And I see Waiters being the better player.

 

[rrlbees]

The numbers only tell a part of the story. Triche is a 2 year starter with a ton of game experience--those numbers are disappointing given that. What would Waiters numbers look like with more minutes or experience? I hope the best man wins because ultimately it benefits Syracuse. I really don't have a dog in the fight, just going by what I see. And I see Waiters being the better player.

Someone posted a while back the stats of some pretty darn good players at SU after their soph year. You'd be surprised how average some of our best players were their soph season from a stat standpoint.

 

[orange03]

Someone posted a while back the stats of some pretty darn good players at SU after their soph year. You'd be surprised how average some of our best players were their soph season from a stat standpoint.

Absolutely, I just don't think Triche will be one of those guys. He's solid, but for whatever reason it just doesn't click for him when the game starts. He's much more athletic than he shows, he just doesn't know how to utilize it. I have no problem with the better man winning the job, I don't think it comes to that though.

 

[orangefan13]

Syracuse runs a isolation offense. Players can be accused of not playing team ball more in a isolation set because the sets don't favor a expected pass.

But I agree with Bees. Dion will say "I won't let that happen", but that means he won't let us lose not the team. I almost kinda hope that when that one loss does come this year Dion will be responsible for it due to 6-8 lost possesions if he needs 2 learn from that.

As a 6th man last year he didn't lose games for us. Howerver,
If he is one of our top three go to guys and it seems like he is this year he can lose games. And this board is going to be on meltdown on him when the above happens.

So I hope people understand we run more isolation basketball and not to overblame guys for taking shots in isolation or when coach gives them the go. Thets not overcrucify guys who take 10 shots a game because coach gave them the green light for a supposed mismatch. Guys like Triche the last two games or Scoop last year when coach wanted him to shoot more

One solution to see if Dion is the me first guy would be to spread the defense more. Two shooters like MCW or Fair/KJO on the wings in the corner with a screen from Melo and Rak downlow. If Fair/KJO's and MCW shooting is on that night that could be our toughest offensive set.

Really the biggest question every year in the halfcourt offense is who is going to be the shooter to spread the defense? who is going to drive? and who is going to play some low post offense to spread the defense? And when a multidimentional player can fill in and do one of those three when the team really needs it, he is way more then a glue guy.

 

[rrlbees]

Absolutely, I just don't think Triche will be one of those guys. He's solid, but for whatever reason it just doesn't click for him when the game starts. He's much more athletic than he shows, he just doesn't know how to utilize it. I have no problem with the better man winning the job, I don't think it comes to that though.

Put him at PG.

 

[orange03]

Put him at PG.

Maybe. Based on what I've seen, Dion is much better and breaking down his guy and hitting the open man. I know he has his faults, but the kid is just better. Hopefully he corrals his me first attitude and we get to see that. Triche just always seems so stiff.

 

[arbitragegls]

divide time between these two backcourt teams:

Scoop and Waiters
Triche and MCW

...and lets see for once and all which is the best backcourt...who the better players are...we all are go 'Cuse...but let this discussion be ended by playing these two backcourts and evaluating what each has...say the next two games...10 minutes each backcourt...and lets see the team play; assists, scoring, defense and flow of game...And then say...here is the backcourt we should play! or come to conclusion that each of above offers some positives with flaws and just let them play...however JB chooses...which he does at any rate.

 

[orangefan13]

Way to early to tell what the backcourt should be. Atleast 50% of the choice is going to be defensively and what guards pair up well for traps steals and getting out in transition. Yesterday MCW and Dion at the top of the zone. Dion is scrappy in awesome shape and aggressive. MCW is long lengthy and a hustler like Dion.

I think Dion had trouble defensively last year because Triche and Dion didn't make a great backcourt combo offensivley.This forced Dions defense to be on the court with Scoop more. Not a knock on scoops defense last year, but Triche was longer, and read passing lanes pretty good. For the record MCW looks alittle slow in the halfcourt D like Dion did last year at points in the second half. St Rose PG did blow by him some.

There is reason to believe we could be a excellent scrappy, trapping, stealing team after watching yesterdays game. Guys like KJO had some nice steals in the half court in the first half that got overlooked by the press. There was a early stretch in the first half that the steals were texbook athletic fast. I really believe that 19-2 run to start the first half until only putting up 4 points in the last 8 minutes was one of the best runs I have ever seen at syracuse. Our defense didn't just steal the ball it looked like they did it at 65% speed, and we were explosive defense not just average sliding defense.

In my opinion the hardest part most years with the 2-3 is having guards who can get out and pressure the ball in the zone some and force opponents to try transition offense. The 2-3 has 3 guys in the backline and can accomidate offense for defense at the four or the five. With only two guards up top and being led by guards come march guards are so key.

 

[Cusedan25]

I think Triche is a good player, but obviously he disapears at times. I think he goes stretches without being involved because he plays the majority of his minutes with Scoop and Kris. Those two can be major ball stoppers at times. They dribble, dribble, dribble without going anywhere. I think if he played more minutes with MCW and CJ, he would be a monster, because those guys (I think in MCW's case), just make quick decisions with the ball. I think Scoop would be better paired with Dion, and MCW with Triche.

 

[SaintTristan]

Absolutely, I just don't think Triche will be one of those guys. He's solid, but for whatever reason it just doesn't click for him when the game starts. He's much more athletic than he shows, he just doesn't know how to utilize it. I have no problem with the better man winning the job, I don't think it comes to that though.

Triche just doesnt have it. he is not actually athletic - thats a myth - and he makes no one on the court any better. at this level he is a role player. there is nothing wrong with that - playing D1 ball is huge.

Could he play PG? Perhaps in the way that paulus played PG for duke - dribble the ball from point A to point B and then get out of the way the rest of the offensive set. but he doesnt have a creative bone in his body.

 

[orange03]

Triche just doesnt have it. he is not actually athletic - thats a myth - and he makes no one on the court any better. at this level he is a role player. there is nothing wrong with that - playing D1 ball is huge.

Could he play PG? Perhaps in the way that paulus played PG for duke - dribble the ball from point A to point B and then get out of the way the rest of the offensive set. but he doesnt have a creative bone in his body.

Pretty much agree. I've never seen a kid who seems so uncomfortable with the ball in his hand.

 

[Garbs]

Pretty much agree. I've never seen a kid who seems so uncomfortable with the ball in his hand.

it is mind boggling to see that he scored 30-50 points in summer leagues and camps

we see nothing at all when he is in an orange uniform that makes me think he can do that

 

[orange03]

it is mind boggling to see that he scored 30-50 points in summer leagues and camps

we see nothing at all when he is in an orange uniform that makes me think he can do that

His physical dominance over the majority of those kids is the reason for that. Like Tristan said, he isn't all that creative and struggles to create shots for himself.

 

[OttoMets]

His physical dominance over the majority of those kids is the reason for that. Like Tristan said, he isn't all that creative and struggles to create shots for himself.

I'm not as extreme about Tristan on this - he has put up the numbers (pretty much for everyone other than Syracuse) before. So I don't think the trouble is that he can't do it. But it's indisputable that he doesn't do it.

As you said, he looks very uncomfortable with the ball in his hands. In two exhibitions, he didn't look like a very good basketball player. And we don't have too much reason to believe that he's suddenly going to get it.

It is disappointing, though, because one gets the sense that he could be very good. He has occasional bright spots (his drive to the left in the first half was nice; his garbage-time three showed the quickest release I've ever seen from him).