AJ Long to Wagner

[IthacaBarrel]

The university is also protecting themselves by banning the Kiss cam, rebranding to Syracuse Orange, and a host of other stuff. I believe I mentioned the university's tendency to err on the side of caution regardless. The point is we might be taking it too far. BTW, i don't think getting cleared by the Jefferson Concussion Center is AJ looking around long enough. "The Jefferson Comprehensive Concussion Center – the Delaware Valley's premier destination for concussion management – is a unique collaboration of concussion specialists from Jefferson, Rothman Institute and Wills Eye Hospital".

Agree to disagree. Like I said, maybe that wasn't his 2nd stop, maybe it was his 3rd maybe 4th. I agree with Bnoro's post, it's not about 6 months from now but 10 years down the road.

 

[Pyle]

I'd rather be ahead of the curve when it comes to getting sued for concussions than behind it.

You realize the NFL settled a $900-million concussion lawsuit, right? Syracuse is protecting itself for the future. At least we tried to limit long term brain damage.

Syracuse could protect themselves just as much by enforcing outside opinions couldn't they?

SU: "Hey AJ, we're concerned about the number of head injuries you've received, we need you to go to an actual Concussion Center and be evaluated by a team of specialists before we can let you play."

Instead we have some blanket 3 strikes and you're out rule apparently. I can't believe some people think this is the preferred/better method.

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah his reasons are 3 strikes and you're out per university policy. We are letting policy get in the way of good medicine, if he is cleared by a concussion center then SU's policies, while good intentioned, might be missing the mark. It's not like he got cleared by Dr. Nick.

It's not 3 strikes and you're out. That rules out severity, duration of effects, etc. Like all injuries, it's about documentation and monitoring.

Also: if we are saying "this guy isn't qualified, our policy is bad" and we are not a qualified to really discuss either (not a doctor, not employed by Syracuse or on the dept that came up with the policy) than it's hugely hypocritical to judge anything at all. We don't have enough info.

Kudos to the families who tried to get more info. (But if I the stories AJ told the syr.com are true - I'd have tried to get him to quit if he were my kid).

 

[bnoro]

Syracuse could protect themselves just as much by enforcing outside opinions couldn't they?

SU: "Hey AJ, we're concerned about the number of head injuries you've received, we need you to go to an actual Concussion Center and be evaluated by a team of specialists before we can let you play."

Instead we have some blanket 3 strikes and you're out rule apparently. I can't believe some people think this is the preferred/better method.

You mean like the NFL did before it got sued for $900 million? Read League of Denial by Mark Fainaru-Wada.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Syracuse could protect themselves just as much by enforcing outside opinions couldn't they?

SU: "Hey AJ, we're concerned about the number of head injuries you've received, we need you to go to an actual Concussion Center and be evaluated by a team of specialists before we can let you play."

Instead we have some blanket 3 strikes and you're out rule apparently. I can't believe some people think this is the preferred/better method.

This post is my whole point, you don't know why AJ Long was no longer allowed to play here. You just don't, like I said I am sure the Syracuse DOC had plenty of reason for concern, yet you are quick to dismiss that as CYA medicine. I guess

 

[Pyle]

This post is my whole point, you don't know why AJ Long was no longer allowed to play here. You just don't, like I said I am sure the Syracuse DOC had plenty of reason for concern, yet you are quick to dismiss that as CYA medicine. I guess

I lost some faith in general practitioners after my long time family doctor diagnosed my torn meniscus as arthritis even though I told him it was abrupt trauma as the result of sliding into home plate. I took it upon myself to get a specialist opinion who did an actual MRI and revealed the torn meniscus. I realize SU has better docs than the hack I used to go see, however you will never convince me that a general practitioner is as qualified as somebody who devotes their entire career to the diagnosis/treatment of certain conditions. The SU doc has every reason to be concerned, which is when you bring in the experts who deal with it every single day.

 

[jr4750]

I'd rather be ahead of the curve when it comes to getting sued for concussions than behind it.

You realize the NFL settled a $900-million concussion lawsuit, right? Syracuse is protecting itself for the future. At least we tried to limit long term brain damage.

Furthermore, I feel like getting cleared by these people is akin to getting a medicinal marijuana card in CA. If you try hard enough it'll happen. I wouldn't feel safe letting my child play if they've been disqualified already by one school.

No question. Eventually you will find someone to give you the go ahead. Syracuse is being uber conscious here, but I imagine that is coming straight from the top, and wasn't a Shafer thing.

 

[Pyle]

I just did a whole bunch of research on the fellow that DQ'ed AJ. He is a family practitioner from Fayetteville who works at St. Joes. It's also his first year as the team Dr. He has participated in 'concussion study groups' according to a quote from Shafer. So basically we have a family doc, from St. Joes, in his first year as the team's lead physician, who's DQ'ing our athletes who later get cleared by experts at a concussion center? Nobody but a few of us are raising eyebrows at this? We can definitely agree to disagree then. How many concussions do you think he dealth with last season? 4 or 5? 10 maybe? How many concussions do you think the Jefferson Concussion center deals with everyday? Probably more than this doc saw all of last year. At this point, I'm more worried that the doc is cya, moreso than the university.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

No question. Eventually you will find someone to give you the go ahead. Syracuse is being uber conscious here, but I imagine that is coming straight from the top, and wasn't a Shafer thing.

Yep, agree 100%.

 

[TheCusian]

I just did a whole bunch of research on the fellow that DQ'ed AJ. He is a family practitioner from Fayetteville who works at St. Joes. It's also his first year as the team Dr. He has participated in 'concussion study groups' according to a quote from Shafer. So basically we have a family doc, from St. Joes, in his first year as the team's lead physician, who's DQ'ing our athletes who later get cleared by experts at a concussion center? Nobody but a few of us are raising eyebrows at this? We can definitely agree to disagree then. How many concussions do you think he dealth with last season? 4 or 5? 10 maybe? How many concussions do you think the Jefferson Concussion center deals with everyday? Probably more than this doc saw all of last year. At this point, I'm more worried that the doc is cya, moreso than the university.

I'm not sure any of us can judge what you're judging.

 

[Scooch]

By all accounts Eric Dungey is going to play next season. He of the possible 3 concussions, 2 of which we know kept him out of the Dome and it's light and noise.

But we're super sure that our other players ruled ineligible were done so by quacks.

Am I following this?

I know it's an Internet forum but occasionally it's useful to let people do their jobs and have a shred of faith that they're not grossly incompetent.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The problem is, in the end SU is not helping the kids. Both Knapp and Long are still going to play. So SU did not protect them physically. In addition, both kids will now get a worse education, which does nothing for their future careers.

There really should be a uniform NCAA rule or at least a P5 rule. That is the only way to truly protect the kids. Having each school have their own rule, does nothing.

As to SU's supposed 3 strike policy, why not allow for an immediate challenge from a 2nd opinion? If the concussion is reversed, the liability shifts to that doctor and not SU. If a kid is diagnosed by SU as having a concussion they cannot practice. So they have plenty of time to get an immediate 2nd opinion before healing. If that 2nd opinion comes back negative for a concussion, shouldn't that concussion come off the record? Wouldn't that be the fair thing to do?

 

[SWC75]

Keep in mind that one reason for the NCAA's actions against the basketball program were non-uniform adjudication of the school's drug policy. if we have a policy toward concussions, I guess we better treat everyone the same way, regardless of how important he may be in next year's plans.

 

[rrlbees]

Syracuse could protect themselves just as much by enforcing outside opinions couldn't they? SU: "Hey AJ, we're concerned about the number of head injuries you've received, we need you to go to an actual Concussion Center and be evaluated by a team of specialists before we can let you play." Instead we have some blanket 3 strikes and you're out rule apparently. I can't believe some people think this is the preferred/better method.

What is the outside opinion that is clearing him? What are they clearing? That he doesn't currently have a concussion? Can they tell whether he's had 3 or more? Are they able to project 10, 20, 30 years down the road and whether he'll have brain damage?

 

[CuseOnly]

You mean like the NFL did before it got sued for $900 million? Read League of Denial by Mark Fainaru-Wada.

The NFL got sued because they deliberately an intentionally covered up evidence of concussions and CTE so that players could not make informed decisions about their health and playing careers as well we their quality of life after playing.

 

[bnoro]

The NFL got sued because they deliberately an intentionally covered up evidence of concussions and CTE so that players could not make informed decisions about their health and playing careers as well we their quality of life after playing.

Right. And the NFL had "concussion experts" writing studies to disprove that because they were paid to. Just like these "concussion experts" that cleared AJ Long after he had been medically disqualified.

 

[Moontan]

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The fact that AJ landed at Wagner is interesting, not even a really good FCS school. Huge drop

 

[Pyle]

What is the outside opinion that is clearing him? What are they clearing? That he doesn't currently have a concussion? Can they tell whether he's had 3 or more? Are they able to project 10, 20, 30 years down the road and whether he'll have brain damage?

He was cleared by the Jefferson Concussion Center to play football again, they are concussion experts who deal with these injuries everyday. As for the projection question, how do we know that 1 major hit won't cause brain damage later in life, how do we know Dungey won't have brain damage? We don't.

 

[Pyle]

By all accounts Eric Dungey is going to play next season. He of the possible 3 concussions, 2 of which we know kept him out of the Dome and it's light and noise.

But we're super sure that our other players ruled ineligible were done so by quacks.

Am I following this?

I know it's an Internet forum but occasionally it's useful to let people do their jobs and have a shred of faith that they're not grossly incompetent.

Quack? No. Concussion expert? No. Neurologist? Not that either. If we are going to end careers and dreams then we should at least be doing it under the advice of experts in their field, not someone who practiced family medicine treating everyday illnesses for most of his career. Why people are opposed to this I have no idea.

 

[TheCusian]

He was cleared by the Jefferson Concussion Center to play football again, they are concussion experts who deal with these injuries everyday. As for the projection question, how do we know that 1 major hit won't cause brain damage later in life, how do we know Dungey won't have brain damage? We don't.

Did they observe him after every concussion? Or only after he hadn't been playing football for 9 months?

 

[TheCusian]

Quack? No. Concussion expert? No. Neurologist? Not that either. If we are going to end careers and dreams then we should at least be doing it under the advice of experts in their field, not someone who practiced family medicine treating everyday illnesses for most of his career. Why people are opposed to this I have no idea.

Concussions need to be diagnosed as quickly as possible. Is there an expert who can attend every game/practice and then meet with the patient every day?

I mean there are good reasons not to have a concussion expert on hand. Neurologists on retainer? Ready to make a donation?

 

[Pyle]

Did they observe him after every concussion? Or only after he hadn't been playing football for 9 months?

If you feel you need to question the diagnosis of experts in the field then by all means.....My entire point is simply that we shouldn't be DQ'ing athletes without the opinion of experts in the field. Leaving it up to a first year team doc who practices family medicine is what I have a problem with.

 

[maxxyz]

Quack? No. Concussion expert? No. Neurologist? Not that either. If we are going to end careers and dreams then we should at least be doing it under the advice of experts in their field, not someone who practiced family medicine treating everyday illnesses for most of his career. Why people are opposed to this I have no idea.

This has been answered before. The SU concussion policy is to protect the school from future litigation. They have a quantitative procedure which they have been following rigorously. They don't need a specialist to administrate the policy as written.

Ask ten specialists for a diagnosis and you will get many different answers. The current policy limits the schools liability to a much greater extent. Someone at SU is predicting there will be a wave of concussion lawsuits in the NCAA in the future and they are being proactive.

 

[Pyle]

Concussions need to be diagnosed as quickly as possible. Is there an expert who can attend every game/practice and then meet with the patient every day?

I mean there are good reasons not to have a concussion expert on hand. Neurologists on retainer? Ready to make a donation?

Or we could just send them to a concussion center after initial diagnosis for further evaluation.