Akok Akok in the portal

[MikeSU02]

No, it's like seeing people who complained all year about the players we had start complaining about next year's players six months before the season even starts.

I was concerned before last year started. I'm voicing my concern this year because it's more of the same, save for landing Judah.

We are in a very precarious position as a program and I don't think it's being a pessimist to voice those concerns.

We have so many IFs to even make the tourney: IF Judah performs, IF JGIII does well at the 2, IF Benny makes a leap, IF Jesse stays healthy and out of foul trouble.

My new benchmark is no longer a top seed and outside shot at a chip. It's to make the tournament. Based on that benchmark, I'm cautiously optimistic that JB can piece it together. But we are woefully thin behind Jesse and, overall, at forward.

The world doesn't work where all those IFs come to fruition. Some will, some won't.

I'm stoked for Judah. I'm stoked for JGIII at the 2. I'm hoping Jesse can stay on the court and JB features him in the offense and I'm praying that Benny makes a leap. I *want* all those things to come true. But in terms of what is reality? I have to be, at best, cautiously optimistic, and lower my hopes to just making the tournament.

Not vying for a conference title. Definitely not vying for a chip. But a team that can stay healthy, improve its defense, be less reliant on jump shooting and still score.

 

[DCUNITED13]

Last Season was Last Season.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I was concerned before last year started. I'm voicing my concern this year because it's more of the same, save for landing Judah.

We are in a very precarious position as a program and I don't think it's being a pessimist to voice those concerns.

We have so many IFs to even make the tourney: IF Judah performs, IF JGIII does well at the 2, IF Benny makes a leap, IF Jesse stays healthy and out of foul trouble.

My new benchmark is no longer a top seed and outside shot at a chip. It's to make the tournament. Based on that benchmark, I'm cautiously optimistic that JB can piece it together. But we are woefully thin behind Jesse and, overall, at forward.

The world doesn't work where all those IFs come to fruition. Some will, some won't.

I'm stoked for Judah. I'm stoked for JGIII at the 2. I'm hoping Jesse can stay on the court and JB features him in the offense and I'm praying that Benny makes a leap. I *want* all those things to come true. But in terms of what is reality? I have to be, at best, cautiously optimistic, and lower my hopes to just making the tournament.

Not vying for a conference title. Definitely not vying for a chip. But a team that can stay healthy, improve its defense, be less reliant on jump shooting and still score.

All those plus another one or two of the frosh be able to make a seamless transition. Lots of question marks. Is it possible to be cautiously optimistic and cautiously pessimistic at the time?

 

[MikeSU02]

All those plus another one or two of the frosh be able to make a seamless transition. Lots of question marks. Is it possible to be cautiously optimistic and cautiously pessimistic at the time?

Yeah, I think so, no?

I mean, listen, if Bunch or someone outplays his ranking and pops from day one and Benny makes the leap, we could be golden.

I'm not saying it's impossible. In fact, part of me WILL talk myself into a 1 seed being on the table. Just like a do for football, again, because I'm an idiot.

But there have been enough mediocre years, or at least mediocre based on the bar that JB has set for the program to his credit, that I'm very worried it will be one more with the amount of uncertainty we have.

 

[Niastri]

Yup -- agree across the board.

I got evicerated after the exhibition games for condescending to suggest that I was concerned that last year's team might be the worst one in my lifetime, that it was the least athletic lineup in JB's tenure, that I was concerned about the dearth of bench scoring, and that defense / the ability to handle on-the-ball defensive pressure were both massive causes for concern.

To some, I guess that's "complaining."

RF, I don't find your concerned analysis to be the problem.

It's the people who feel the need to post in every single thread things like "JB doesn't want to win anymore" and "we're never going to be good again" whether it's even remotely on topic or not.

 

[HOFCeluck]

As someone who complained a lot this past season I think there’s a substantial difference between playing a bunch of unproven players versus playing the coaches son transfer from Cornell and playing him the second most minutes and giving him the second most shots.

I’m fine with the growing pains. I’m just glad Daddyball is dead.

 

[CusefanATL]

We’re replacing three seniors, including Buddy, with essentially three freshmen. For all intents and purposes, Benny is a freshman. He barely played last year and has to prove he can contribute. A .500 season is probably the ceiling this year.

we tried playing the zone with by far the worst athletic bunch in boeheims history hoping we could shoot out of it. the problem was there was no athleticism on the offensive side either.

the ceiling for this upcoming team is undefeated national champs. the basement is something similar to this year. and that description pretty much fits this past year as well. we lost way more games that we should have won than the other way around.

 

[Bball44]

I was concerned before last year started. I'm voicing my concern this year because it's more of the same, save for landing Judah.

We are in a very precarious position as a program and I don't think it's being a pessimist to voice those concerns.

We have so many IFs to even make the tourney: IF Judah performs, IF JGIII does well at the 2, IF Benny makes a leap, IF Jesse stays healthy and out of foul trouble.

My new benchmark is no longer a top seed and outside shot at a chip. It's to make the tournament. Based on that benchmark, I'm cautiously optimistic that JB can piece it together. But we are woefully thin behind Jesse and, overall, at forward.

The world doesn't work where all those IFs come to fruition. Some will, some won't.

I'm stoked for Judah. I'm stoked for JGIII at the 2. I'm hoping Jesse can stay on the court and JB features him in the offense and I'm praying that Benny makes a leap. I *want* all those things to come true. But in terms of what is reality? I have to be, at best, cautiously optimistic, and lower my hopes to just making the tournament.

Not vying for a conference title. Definitely not vying for a chip. But a team that can stay healthy, improve its defense, be less reliant on jump shooting and still score.

Think Jessie, Joe and Judah performing at a high level is very likely. Also expect Sy to be solid. Hopefully Benny will rise to the occasion.

 

[MikeSU02]

Think Jessie, Joe and Judah performing at a high level is very likely. Also expect Sy to be solid. Hopefully Benny will rise to the occasion.

Not like I'm going to switch to another team to root for. Hope is the best and worst thing we have as sports fans. Fingers crossed. Believe me, nothing would make me happier than JB getting one final, legit run at it before he hangs it up.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

No, it's like seeing people who complained all year about the players we had start complaining about next year's players six months before the season even starts.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We lost to Georgetown and Colgate last year with a better team. No guarantees.

I'm not really sharing my opinion. I'm sharing what I have heard JB thinks.

I think fans would have been more patient had we gone in on building from the ground up in 2016, but after 6 years of mediocre ball there's no more patience.

 

[Fly Rodder]

You're prebitching... Can't you at least wait until something has gone wrong before bitching?

I think there is a chance JB picked his recruits well and they are going to surprise us in a positive way and restore our long earned faith in JB.

Sure, but context matters. If this was coming off a conference championship and a deep tourney run as a top-seed? There would be fewer naysayers and criticism. Unfortunately, the past has happened. The reason why every topic usually devolves into this is because there are people who still think this is JAB coaching at the height of his skills and Rony and Derrick and John Wallace and Melo are walking through the door.

This is what fan forums look like for mediocre programs and teams.

 

[RF2044]

RF, I don't find your concerned analysis to be the problem.

It's the people who feel the need to post in every single thread things like "JB doesn't want to win anymore" and "we're never going to be good again" whether it's even remotely on topic or not.

Niastri, you know that you've long been one of my favorite posters on the board, and I respect the heck out of your contributions here. So thanks for saying that.

And no doubt -- there are some who push an agenda hard, and bombard the board with negativity.

But I don't believe that's what is being brought up here. Over the past year, there has been a tangible shift from many posters that I hold in high regard, who have expressed unilateral support in the past who are now expressing concern.

They're not "complainers." They're not negative, and they're not pessimists -- as MikeSU02 points out above. They aren't "worse" fans than those who want to hide behind a veil of blind optimism. They're just not pretending that everything is fine with the state of the state, and they are discussing what they are seeing unfold with critical objectivity. The reason that it comes up so much is that the decline has been long and steady, and last year's losing record is inducing some to reassess their viewpoint on program health, and the strategic direction we're taking.

They shouldn't be labeled as disloyal dissenters.

 

[Briancuse]

As someone who complained a lot this past season I think there’s a substantial difference between playing a bunch of unproven players versus playing the coaches son transfer from Cornell and playing him the second most minutes and giving him the second most shots.

I’m fine with the growing pains. I’m just glad Daddyball is dead.

Why deal with growing pains when you can go get a veteran in the portal? We are already unproven in 2/5 of our starting 5. Why make it 3/5?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Niastri, you know that you've long been one of my favorite posters on the board, and I respect the heck out of your contributions here. So thanks for saying that.

And no doubt -- there are some who push an agenda hard, and bombard the board with negativity.

But I don't believe that's what is being brought up here. Over the past year, there has been a tangible shift from many posters that I hold in high regard, who have expressed unilateral support in the past who are now expressing concern.

They're not "complainers." They're not negative, and they're not pessimists -- as MikeSU02 points out above. They aren't "worse" fans than those who want to hide behind a veil of blind optimism. They're just not pretending that everything is fine with the state of the state, and they are discussing what they are seeing unfold with critical objectivity. The reason that it comes up so much is that the decline has been long and steady, and last year's losing record is inducing some to reassess their viewpoint on program health, and the strategic direction we're taking.

They shouldn't be labeled as disloyal dissenters.

Yeah. I've stated on here that I think at a certain point JB stopped drive ng for conference championships and title contention, and became content to make the tournament and roll the dice that we'd be a tough matchup for a round or two. That could put me in the "JB doesn't want to win" camp I suppose.

It's just... I'm not sure I'm wrong.

We're not seeing a lot of hustle from JB. And he's up there in years! Should we even expect that? But what we hear is a lot of contentment. He likes the team, likes the roster. There were guys that wanted to come but we liked what we have and turned them down.

Assuming dasher's info is good JB is excited that we'll be good in 2 years.

At what other point in his tenure would JB be satisfied with that?

 

[SWC75]

I was concerned before last year started. I'm voicing my concern this year because it's more of the same, save for landing Judah.

We are in a very precarious position as a program and I don't think it's being a pessimist to voice those concerns.

We have so many IFs to even make the tourney: IF Judah performs, IF JGIII does well at the 2, IF Benny makes a leap, IF Jesse stays healthy and out of foul trouble.

My new benchmark is no longer a top seed and outside shot at a chip. It's to make the tournament. Based on that benchmark, I'm cautiously optimistic that JB can piece it together. But we are woefully thin behind Jesse and, overall, at forward.

The world doesn't work where all those IFs come to fruition. Some will, some won't.

I'm stoked for Judah. I'm stoked for JGIII at the 2. I'm hoping Jesse can stay on the court and JB features him in the offense and I'm praying that Benny makes a leap. I *want* all those things to come true. But in terms of what is reality? I have to be, at best, cautiously optimistic, and lower my hopes to just making the tournament.

Not vying for a conference title. Definitely not vying for a chip. But a team that can stay healthy, improve its defense, be less reliant on jump shooting and still score.

Every season has its ifs. With the transfer portal joining early departures for the pros, there will be no way to avoid them. It doesn't mean that the next season will be a bad season. My problem is with the people who have already decided that it will be because it fits their narrative.

 

[Briancuse]

Honest question why does everyone just assume the defense is going to be much better next year? If we are starting two freshman a sophomore and a center who gets in foul trouble alot. Not to mention Joe isnt exactly a lock down defender.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Why deal with growing pains when you can go get a veteran in the portal? We are already unproven in 2/5 of our starting 5. Why make it 3/5?

Yeah I mean I guess that would be nice but I didn’t think it was germane to the posts I was replying to.

 

[Briancuse]

Yeah. I've stated on here that I think at a certain point JB stopped drive ng for conference championships and title contention, and became content to make the tournament and roll the dice that we'd be a tough matchup for a round or two. That could put me in the "JB doesn't want to win" camp I suppose.

It's just... I'm not sure I'm wrong.

We're not seeing a lot of hustle from JB. And he's up there in years! Should we even expect that? But what we hear is a lot of contentment. He likes the team, likes the roster. There were guys that wanted to come but we liked what we have and turned them down.

Assuming dasher's info is good JB is excited that we'll be good in 2 years.

At what other point in his tenure would JB be satisfied with that?

What is going to happen in two years that we are going be really good? Judah could be a one and done Joe and Jesse leave and we have no current commits in the 23 class.

 

[OptimusOtto]

Honest question why does everyone just assume the defense is going to be much better next year? If we are starting two freshman a sophomore and a center who gets in foul trouble alot. Not to mention Joe isnt exactly a lock down defender.

I think it’s a combo of better athletes coming in and also a belief that last year was so bad that it can’t get worse. Between Mintz and Sy our guards should defend better and hopefully not be the turnstiles we’ve been the last 3 years. The zone is a lot harder to run when the guards can’t consistently deny the entry pass to the free throw line.

 

[Briancuse]

I think it’s a combo of better athletes coming in and also a belief that last year was so bad that it can’t get worse. Between Mintz and Sy our guards should defend better and hopefully not be the turnstiles we’ve been the last 3 years. The zone is a lot harder to run when the guards can’t consistently deny the entry pass to the free throw line.

Better athletes help to sure. But it takes time to learn the zone. The defense is going to have to be great in order to make up for what we are losing on offense.

 

[orangepassion]

If Swider was coming back last year, I'd be (and was) feeling pretty bullish on next year's team. That would have been a well balanced team. I wish we would at least try to replace him. Too many question marks that have to go right next year.

 

[CardiacCuse]

We’re replacing three seniors, including Buddy, with essentially three freshmen. For all intents and purposes, Benny is a freshman. He barely played last year and has to prove he can contribute. A .500 season is probably the ceiling this year.

i totally get the concern...and I'm not fully convinced that next years team will be better than the "triple B's"

BUT

if I had to guess right now ...I would bet that this next season will be a lot better than the last.

reasons -

defense. buddy and jimmy were huge liabilities on D...so even though they put up good stats, it didnt really impact bottomline as much as you might think. the players coming...at least some of them...are bound to be better on D...even if its just Sy and Joe up top..thats an upgrade. benny is an upgrade on jimmy defensively right now. jesse got better on d as the season went on before his injury...all of the freshman are ahtletic and long...I expect them to help on D even if they need time to learn its intricacies.

Offense - on the surface, losing buddy, leading acc scorer would portend bad things. but i think joe is a better shooter at the 2. and he wont ball hog like buddy did. i think the offense will be more balanced without the boeheim bros and therefore better and actually be more efficient than last year. i think it will have zero problems scoring (as long as the iso offense isnt a staple)

so overall I see the offense AND defense being better than last year...and since there will presumably be a deeper rotation...probably not going to turn too many double digit leads into losses like this season had.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Honest question why does everyone just assume the defense is going to be much better next year? If we are starting two freshman a sophomore and a center who gets in foul trouble alot. Not to mention Joe isnt exactly a lock down defender.

joe and sy are a better d than buddy and joe...and judah has got to be better than buddy on D.

cole and jimmy were newbies and jimmy was the slowest defending forward ive ever seen in orange. cole was pretty decent by seasons end but the team still had to deal with his growing pains...but benny was better on D than either all year. he wasnt playing because of his offense.

Jesse needs to be on the floor. but he will be.

all the other freshman...some of them are bound to be good. even jba was pretty good defensively imo.

so on sheer athleticism, its going to be better, no questions.

zero doubts the defense will be a lot better...because it literally couldnt have been worse.

 

[longtimefan]

So you were at the diary bar

I always go to that bar when it's time to write down my thoughts about the events of the day.