Alec Lemon

[Hoov50]

Are you kidding me? Do you really think our players get slower and weaker while at Syracuse?

Your first problem is that you apparently believe the 40 times being reported by kids coming out of high school. Alex was probably a 4.7 kid coming out of high school. Your second assumption is that HS kid use reps of 225 on the bech during HS combines. It's not 225, it's 185. Alex is coming off shoulder surgery and has only been repping with higer weights as of late.

Also what skill in football as a WR requires you to be strong in the bench pressing motion?

 

[repos]

Also what skill in football as a WR requires you to be strong in the bench pressing motion?

lol @ everyone ripping my post.

-What play?...how about blocking, and getting off press coverage.

-You can develop speed, silly to think you can't. Shamarko ran a 4.19 @junior day. He didn't come in running that did he?

-Yes Alec is a way better receiver. Obviously he broke 1000 yards. But is he more athletic aka faster--jump higher?--That's debatable we've all seen him get caught from behind on tv.

 

[qdawgg]

lol @ everyone ripping my post.

-What play?...how about blocking, and getting off press coverage.

-You can develop speed, silly to think you can't. Shamarko ran a 4.19 @junior day. He didn't come in running that did he?

-Yes Alec is a way better receiver. Obviously he broke 1000 yards. But is he more athletic aka faster--jump higher?--That's debatable we've all seen him get caught from behind on tv.

LOL @ ripping great SU players. Get lost.

 

[CIL]

lol @ everyone ripping my post.

-What play?...how about blocking, and getting off press coverage.

-You can develop speed, silly to think you can't. Shamarko ran a 4.19 @junior day. He didn't come in running that did he?

-Yes Alec is a way better receiver. Obviously he broke 1000 yards. But is he more athletic aka faster--jump higher?--That's debatable we've all seen him get caught from behind on tv.

Do you really believe Shamarko ran a 4.19 at junior day? Honestly? Laser timed? That would be the fastest official time the combine has seen, a full .05 faster than Chris Johnson and Deon Sanders.

So when Shamarko runs somewhere in the 4.4's tomorrow are you going to claim that he got slower too?

 

[TX Citrus]

There's a huge difference between running a 40 on a track and running one on field turf. That's why you always hear about all these guys who run 4.4 40s and only a few can do that at the combine. The surface itself might be worth close to a tenth of a second. Half the wideouts and DBs on the recruiting sites claim to run 4.4 but only six WRs and RBs have hit that mark at the combine, and one of those guys competed in the Olympic Trials. 4.4 is crazy fast speed.

Alec was always going to have to earn his spot in the NFL. Hopefully he does.

 

[TX Citrus]

Last week Shamarko ran a 4.6...



Forgot to mention he was running through sand and towing a semi-truck.

 

[Hoov50]

lol @ everyone ripping my post.

-What play?...how about blocking, and getting off press coverage.

-You can develop speed, silly to think you can't. Shamarko ran a 4.19 @junior day. He didn't come in running that did he?

-Yes Alec is a way better receiver. Obviously he broke 1000 yards. But is he more athletic aka faster--jump higher?--That's debatable we've all seen him get caught from behind on tv.

So a player getting off press coverage is going to need to shove with a bench press action more than seven times? The best receivers barely get touched on press coverage they are too quick. They definitely don't spend time bench pressing the DB!

And when you are stalk blocking the only type of blocking WR do on a consistent basis you aren't trying to push the defender away! If anything you are trying to keep them from pushing away from you (aka holding).

You cannot develop speed. Just because someone runs a faster time doesn't mean they got faster. .5-.75 of a forty time is the start and technique.

 

[CuseOnly]

So a player getting off press coverage is going to need to shove with a bench press action more than seven times? The best receivers barely get touched on press coverage they are too quick. They definitely don't spend time bench pressing the DB!

And when you are stalk blocking the only type of blocking WR do on a consistent basis you aren't trying to push the defender away! If anything you are trying to keep them from pushing away from you (aka holding).

You cannot develop speed. Just because someone runs a faster time doesn't mean they got faster. .5-.75 of a forty time is the start and technique.

SO Olympians shouldn't train to get stronger and faster. Use your head, any athlete or trainer knows speed is all about power to weight ratio and technique means something as well. The stronger you get and maintain the same weight, the faster you will run. Gain some weight and you will have to get stronger to maintain the same speed. It's called Physics.

That is why there are such things as speed schools, maybe you have heard of them.

The bench press is a basic compound movement used to gauge overall upper body strength. Any athlete will tell you this as well.

Did you ever play sports at all? If you did, you would know these things.

 

[Moontan]

Did you ever play sports at all? If you did, you would know these things.

That's actually pretty funny.
You clearly have no idea who you're replying to.

 

[Hoov50]

SO Olympians shouldn't train to get stronger and faster. Use your head, any athlete or trainer knows speed is all about power to weight ratio and technique means something as well. The stronger you get and maintain the same weight, the faster you will run. Gain some weight and you will have to get stronger to maintain the same speed. It's called Physics.

That is why there are such things as speed schools, maybe you have heard of them.

The bench press is a basic compound movement used to gauge overall upper body strength. Any athlete will tell you this as well.

Did you ever play sports at all? If you did, you would know these things.

There's a reason why certain athletes are great distance runners and a reason why some are great sprinters and a reason why very few, if any, are great at both. Different people, whether you want to call it genetics or whatever, are naturally better at certain things, speed is one of those things.

Of course training can improve speed (or more accurately your time), but you aren't going to magically turn a guy who runs a 5.2 into a guy who runs a 4.4, because speed is something that cannot be taught or magically instilled into a person. You can train to get the most out of your speed, but you are either born with it or not.

The bench press is one of the most overrated ways to measure strength. Most players spend more time benching to prep for the combine than they have in any of their training throughout their college careers. At NO point are you going to be laying on your back pushing weight up in any sport that I am aware of. Bench pressing uses limited muscles unless you are doing it wrong and squirming all over the place.

Not only have I played sports I have coached both track and football at various levels including the college level. While working with some very excellent coaches I have learned these things. So I have been "using my head."

 

[CuseOnly]

There's a reason why certain athletes are great distance runners and a reason why some are great sprinters and a reason why very few, if any, are great at both. Different people, whether you want to call it genetics or whatever, are naturally better at certain things, speed is one of those things.

Of course training can improve speed (or more accurately your time), but you aren't going to magically turn a guy who runs a 5.2 into a guy who runs a 4.4, because speed is something that cannot be taught or magically instilled into a person. You can train to get the most out of your speed, but you are either born with it or not.

The bench press is one of the most overrated ways to measure strength. Most players spend more time benching to prep for the combine than they have in any of their training throughout their college careers. At NO point are you going to be laying on your back pushing weight up in any sport that I am aware of. Bench pressing uses limited muscles unless you are doing it wrong and squirming all over the place.

Not only have I played sports I have coached both track and football at various levels including the college level. While working with some very excellent coaches I have learned these things. So I have been "using my head."

So...by your logic, you can improve your time but not your speed? Not sure how this is possible with the current laws of physics but maybe that has changed since I took physics. Magically turn a 5.2 guy into a 4.4 guy most likely not as 4.4 is elite speed. But I am absolutely sure a 5.2 guy can turn into a 4.7 or a 4.6 for sure.

To go from point A to point B faster or in less time is clearly an increase in speed by definition. Lower time = faster unless we are in an alternate Bizarro universe.

No you cannot turn an average athlete into a world class sprinter, that is obvious but anyone's speed can be improved. And not using just technique to do so.

As far as the bench press being over-rated as a measurement of upper-body strength, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you that it is over-rated. Point being, that it is the measurement being used regardless of what you or I think. Therefore it is relevant as a test as the NFL thinks it is relevant.

As far as the bench press using limited muscle groups, not sure what bench press you are doing but the bench involves multiple muscle groups as any kinesiologist will tell you. Like I said it's a compound movement by definition using multiple muscle groups.

I suppose a multibillion dollar industry founded on increasing athletic performance should just give up and lock the doors.

 

[CuseOnly]

That's actually pretty funny.
You clearly have no idea who you're replying to.

Sorry Moontan, wasn't paying attention.

 

[GoSU96]

lol @ everyone ripping my post.

-What play?...how about blocking, and getting off press coverage.

-You can develop speed, silly to think you can't. Shamarko ran a 4.19 @junior day. He didn't come in running that did he?

-Yes Alec is a way better receiver. Obviously he broke 1000 yards. But is he more athletic aka faster--jump higher?--That's debatable we've all seen him get caught from behind on tv.

53 posts? Know, Your, Place.

 

[albanycuse]

7 reps on the bench press
4.56 unofficial 40yd

Hope hes injured or something because i can do more than 7 reps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cheriehoop]

Hope hes injured or something because i can do more than 7 reps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the P-S it said Alec was worried about his reps. He said he had been working on it but had been limited practicing because of his shoulder surgery.

 

[Moontan]

In the P-S it said Alec was worried about his reps. He said he had been working on it but had been limited practicing because of his shoulder surgery.

I spoke to Alec's father yesterday and he mentioned that the shoulder injury & surgery likely impacted the results.

 

[CIL]

So...by your logic, you can improve your time but not your speed? Not sure how this is possible with the current laws of physics but maybe that has changed since I took physics. Magically turn a 5.2 guy into a 4.4 guy most likely not as 4.4 is elite speed. But I am absolutely sure a 5.2 guy can turn into a 4.7 or a 4.6 for sure.

To go from point A to point B faster or in less time is clearly an increase in speed by definition. Lower time = faster unless we are in an alternate Bizarro universe.

No you cannot turn an average athlete into a world class sprinter, that is obvious but anyone's speed can be improved. And not using just technique to do so.

As far as the bench press being over-rated as a measurement of upper-body strength, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you that it is over-rated. Point being, that it is the measurement being used regardless of what you or I think. Therefore it is relevant as a test as the NFL thinks it is relevant.

As far as the bench press using limited muscle groups, not sure what bench press you are doing but the bench involves multiple muscle groups as any kinesiologist will tell you. Like I said it's a compound movement by definition using multiple muscle groups.

I suppose a multibillion dollar industry founded on increasing athletic performance should just give up and lock the doors.

If anyone can find the magic to make a 5.2 guy run a 4.6 that person would be rich as all hell, and would most likely be a wizard rivaled only by Gandalf.

That's taking an NFL guard and giving him WR speed. You do realize the average 40 time for WR's over the last 5 years at the combine is 4.56?

I don't think Hoov is saying guys don't need to train. Most NFL lifts are built upon building explosive strength, things like power cleans, deadlifts, etc. And yes, speed schools do exist. And can probably help a guy shave any where from .05 to a tenth of a second off. But at that level, it's teaching straight up 40 time technique such as a very long first step (see Defranco's training) that would get you blasted on the field.

 

[bnoro]

So...by your logic, you can improve your time but not your speed? Not sure how this is possible with the current laws of physics but maybe that has changed since I took physics. Magically turn a 5.2 guy into a 4.4 guy most likely not as 4.4 is elite speed. But I am absolutely sure a 5.2 guy can turn into a 4.7 or a 4.6 for sure.

To go from point A to point B faster or in less time is clearly an increase in speed by definition. Lower time = faster unless we are in an alternate Bizarro universe.

No you cannot turn an average athlete into a world class sprinter, that is obvious but anyone's speed can be improved. And not using just technique to do so.

As far as the bench press being over-rated as a measurement of upper-body strength, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you that it is over-rated. Point being, that it is the measurement being used regardless of what you or I think. Therefore it is relevant as a test as the NFL thinks it is relevant.

As far as the bench press using limited muscle groups, not sure what bench press you are doing but the bench involves multiple muscle groups as any kinesiologist will tell you. Like I said it's a compound movement by definition using multiple muscle groups.

I suppose a multibillion dollar industry founded on increasing athletic performance should just give up and lock the doors.

Do you think boxers and mma fighters have a weak upper body? because I guarantee you none of the elite guys have bench pressed since high school. There are much better ways to build upper body strength than using a bench. Even dumbell presses are more effective than benching a bar.

 

[kcsu]

If Alec can beat press coverage he will make the league and have a good run. He has great hands is tough blocks well is smart and runs tight routes. Benching a horse a hundred times doesnt mean jack . The kid can play has good size and decent speed. I think he makes a team i do not think he gets drafted

 

[bnoro]

If Alec can beat press coverage he will make the league and have a good run. He has great hands is tough blocks well is smart and runs tight routes. Benching a horse a hundred times doesnt mean jack . The kid can play has good size and decent speed. I think he makes a team i do not think he gets drafted

I think someone would take a flyer in the 7th at the worst because what team wouldn't want to give a kid with the production he had in college a shot. 7th round picks are essentially UFA's that a team wants to put dibs on.

 

[kcsu]

bnoro i agree but im actually hoping that he doesnt get drafted if he goes beyond the 5th round. His best chance is for him to pick the team that will provide him with the best shot. I truly believe that most players who are drafted in late rounds are better off as FAgents.

 

[CuseOnly]

If anyone can find the magic to make a 5.2 guy run a 4.6 that person would be rich as all hell, and would most likely be a wizard rivaled only by Gandalf.

That's taking an NFL guard and giving him WR speed. You do realize the average 40 time for WR's over the last 5 years at the combine is 4.56?

I don't think Hoov is saying guys don't need to train. Most NFL lifts are built upon building explosive strength, things like power cleans, deadlifts, etc. And yes, speed schools do exist. And can probably help a guy shave any where from .05 to a tenth of a second off. But at that level, it's teaching straight up 40 time technique such as a very long first step (see Defranco's training) that would get you blasted on the field.

Prime example is Adam Archuleta that it can be done. Out of HS and before college he ran a 4.82 and 4 years later at the combine he ran a 4.37. Almost a .5 second increase in over 4 years, is that magical? No. He also went from a 265 bench to a 530 bench using Russian training techniques, mostly explosive lifts. Going back to exactly what I said about power to weight ratio.

Taking a slow guy who has not been conditioned or trained can definitely go from bad scores to very good. I myself went from a 4.85 my Junior year in HS to a 4.6 my senior year and in the mid 4.5's my freshman year in college while I went from a weight of 150 to nearly 180.

 

[CuseOnly]

Do you think boxers and mma fighters have a weak upper body? because I guarantee you none of the elite guys have bench pressed since high school. There are much better ways to build upper body strength than using a bench. Even dumbell presses are more effective than benching a bar.

Bnoro - I don't care much about MMA fighters or whether or not they are strong, and MMA fighters probably don't care about a test that is used in the NFL for measuring upper body strength at the underwear Olympics.

A dumbell bench press as opposed to a straight bench press is basically the same motion. But you are using many more muscles to control the weight making it a more dangerous lift for most and not a very good test. I am not disagreeing with you necessarily that there aren't better ways to BUILD upper body strength, I am disagreeing with you that there are better ways to test for it.

Point being, the NFL uses it to judge upper body strength so guys use it to train and get better at it before the combine to test well. If I am going in to take a sociology exam, I don't study up hard on chemistry. They test using the bench press, so I bench press, pretty simple.

 

[Hoov50]

Let's say I have a car that I run in the quarter mile that has can only reach 65. There are plenty of things I can do to this car, better tires, tune up the engine, better gasoline, make it more aerodynamic and even work on my own reaction time. All of these things can make my time in the quarter mile better/lower without changing my speed of 65.

That's what these "speed" camps do they help the athletes reach their top speed quicker and maintain their top speed longer. They aren't going to increase their top speed. I stand by my statement; you may learn to fully utilize your speed and training and technique work can help you do this but you aren't going to become fast if it isn't in your DNA.

Cuseonly, you said you went from a 4.8 to 4.5. You were always capable of a 4.5 and that's where training comes in. Not everyone, regardless of the training, could go from a 4.8 to a 4.5.

On a side note you can't base whether something is true or not simply because it is a multi-million dollar industry. If you truly believe that I have some refrigerator magnets I will sell you that you can put in your shoes that will solve any and all your health issues!

 

[CuseOnly]

Let's say I have a car that I run in the quarter mile that has can only reach 65. There are plenty of things I can do to this car, better tires, tune up the engine, better gasoline, make it more aerodynamic and even work on my own reaction time. All of these things can make my time in the quarter mile better/lower without changing my speed of 65.

That's what these "speed" camps do they help the athletes reach their top speed quicker and maintain their top speed longer. They aren't going to increase their top speed. I stand by my statement; you may learn to fully utilize your speed and training and technique work can help you do this but you aren't going to become fast if it isn't in your DNA.

Cuseonly, you said you went from a 4.8 to 4.5. You were always capable of a 4.5 and that's where training comes in. Not everyone, regardless of the training, could go from a 4.8 to a 4.5.

On a side note you can't base whether something is true or not simply because it is a multi-million dollar industry. If you truly believe that I have some refrigerator magnets I will sell you that you can put in your shoes that will solve any and all your health issues!

I am not saying that everyone doesn't have a top speed, this discussion was about improvement on the 40 time. I never said there weren't limits because of genetics, if I did please quote me.

My point also was that nobody really knows what their top speed is until they are trained properly. I can't look at Alec Lemon at this point in his career and say he isn't capable of a 4.4 because you, me, him and his trainer don't really know. Injuries anywhere on your body will hold you back and he has been injured a few years in a row now.

Kind of like judging a book by it's cover. Short for a DL, 6'1" 270 lbs runs a 4.39 and scouts are scratching their heads. Dwight Freeney.

Back in the day, people including trainers said that taller guys couldn't be effective short distance sprinters, 40, 60, 100. Low and behold the world record holder is 6'5" and probably will still get faster as he can put muscle still on that frame. His "best event" was the 200, 400, 800 before he begged to run the 100 and got his shot.

I still think I was capable of times in the 4.4's but I will just never know as I am 41 now and gave up on training that hard years ago. Getting old sucks.