All 2010’s SU starting 5 - let’s hear yours

[SUfanNC]

Silent g
Waiters
Dirty
Lydon
Fab

4 can drive and shoot.

 

[cuse10]

Don't understand the love for Southerland.

 

[721Comstock]

Don't understand the love for Southerland.

Agreed.

He was a fine complimentary player, but we’ve had STUDS at forward, many of whom were much better all-around players.

I mean, for example: Wes Johnson was actually better at the one thing - 3pt shooting - that DirtySouth did really well.
In addition to being a much better defender, rebounder, and shot-blocker.
There’s a reason one was a lottery pick, and the other... not.

I like James a lot, but he’s not in the Top 5 Forwards of the 2010’s, much less the Top 2.
He could never beat out CJ Fair for PT, and CJ was a year younger.

 

[OrangeDW]

Don't understand the love for Southerland.

Surprised to see how many he’s gotten and how few Joseph has gotten.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Southerland did have one of the best single season shooting ever at Syracuse his senior year.

 

[Yeti]

Gbinije/Battle

Waiters/Richardson/Triche

Fair/Brisette

Grant/Jackson/Lydon

Rak/Keita

 

[SoBeCuse]

Surprised to see how many he’s gotten and how few Joseph has gotten.

Never was a big KJo guy. Maybe the overdribbling/dribbling off his leg/foot all the time, especially in that E8 game VS OSU, soiled it for me.

I’d definitely pair White or Southerland with a more ‘athlete’ forward like Wes or Grant. But, Kris Joseph or Fair wouldn’t be in my starting lineup.

 

[OrangeDW]

Never was a big KJo guy. Maybe the overdribbling/dribbling off his leg/foot all the time, especially in that E8 game VS OSU, soiled it for me.

I’d definitely pair White or Southerland with a more ‘athlete’ forward like Wes or Grant. But, Kris Joseph or Fair wouldn’t be in my starting lineup.

I hear you. That said he was probably our 3rd best player in 2010, and was our leading scorer in 2012. One of the main guys on our two best teams this decade.

 

[Jake]

its A good thread concept. The only position I would strongly defend is ARautins at 2G.

His SR season in 09-10 was off the charts efficient for his position.

 

[SoBeCuse]

its A good thread concept. The only position I would strongly defend is ARautins at 2G.

His SR season in 09-10 was off the charts efficient for his position.

Rautins with either MCW or Silent G...money. Yep.

 

[sufandu]

I'll go with the 2009-10 starting five with Waiters coming off the bench. The chemistry, player movement away from the ball, and ball movement on that team may be the best I've seen at SU. We had two physical inside players, two guys that were great at the top of the zone and two really good shooters in that starting five. The only thing we were missing was a guy that could break someone down off the dribble and that would be Waiters coming off the bench. He would be one of my starters if I didn't give so much credit to the chemistry that team had and didn't want to mess it up.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Two guards, two forward, and a Center.

I’m curious to see, but I think this decade would have the most varied responses and the least consensus of any other decade for several reasons: the nature of college basketball where far more players are coming in and out, the volume and depth of good players we’ve had - we’ve been a bit down recently, but we’ve had two of our best teams ever this decade as well as two other teams that made final fours, and the lack of any true all time great studs: there’s no Carmelo or Coleman that everyone will put on their team.

I’m thinking we’ll have people with entirely different starting 5’s than others, and it will still be completely reasonable and arguable.

C: Arinze Onuaku
PF: Rick Jackson
SF: C.J. Fair
SG: Tyus Battle
PG: Tyler Ennis

 

[721Comstock]

AO - another guy who (while I'm a big fan) gets far too much love on these "all time" lists.

He was a serviceable college center, and while a key cog on an AWESOME team (for my $, one of the best TEAMs we've ever had), he himself was just... ok.
Not really a rim-protector, just OK at rebounding, and barely averaged 10 a game his last 2 years.
Plus absolutely abysmal at the FT line, so he was unplayable late in a close game.

He wasn't even the best C on the '10 team - that was RickJack.
Our best lineup that year was C - Rick, - Wes, - KrisJo, G - Rautins, G- Scoop

Here are best year season stats for 5 SU bigs of recent (2010 and later) vintage:
(points, rebounds, blocked shots)

Player A - 7.8, 5.8, 2.9
Player B - 17.5, 9.1, 2.5
Player C - 10.3, 7.3, 1.4
Player D - 13.2, 8.6, 1.4
Player E - 13.1, 10.3, 2.5

2 of these players were voted Conference Defensive POY.
1 player was All Conference 1st team, another 2nd team.
(AO was none of those things - and spoiler alert! - was one of the 1 players here with the worst stats)

There are 2 guys here that are pretty clearly head & shoulders better across the board than the other contenders - Player B and Player E.
Scoring, rebounding, and rim protection - exactly what you need from a C.

Players A & C were also black holes, averaging a paltry 0.3 & 0.6 assists/game.
The other 3 averaged 1.5, 2.1, and 2.2 respectively.

 

[OrangeDW]

AO - another guy who (while I'm a big fan) gets far too much love on these "all time" lists.

He was a serviceable college center, and while a key cog on an AWESOME team (for my $, one of the best TEAMs we've ever had), he himself was just... ok.
Not really a rim-protector, just OK at rebounding, and barely averaged 10 a game his last 2 years.
Plus absolutely abysmal at the FT line, so he was unplayable late in a close game.

He wasn't even the best C on the '10 team - that was RickJack.
Our best lineup that year was C - Rick, - Wes, - KrisJo, G - Rautins, G- Scoop

Here are best year season stats for 5 SU bigs of recent (2010 and later) vintage:
(points, rebounds, blocked shots)

Player A - 7.8, 5.8, 2.9
Player B - 17.5, 9.1, 2.5
Player C - 10.3, 7.3, 1.4
Player D - 13.2, 8.6, 1.4
Player E - 13.1, 10.3, 2.5

2 of these players were voted Conference Defensive POY.
1 player was All Conference 1st team, another 2nd team.
(AO was none of those things - and spoiler alert! - was one of the 1 players here with the worst stats)

There are 2 guys here that are pretty clearly head & shoulders better across the board than the other contenders - Player B and Player E.
Scoring, rebounding, and rim protection - exactly what you need from a C.

Part of those stats is the role they played due to the team they were on though. AO was splitting his stats with a Junior Jackson. Senior Jackson was splitting them with nobody.

Same thing with Senior Christmas. That was a weaker team and he got all the minutes and touches.

Senior AO got 10 ppg, but it was a super efficient 10 ppg in 22 minutes, on great FG percentage.

Soph. Fab Melo was on our deepest team(maybe ever?) with incredibly balanced scoring so 8 ppg was all they really needed out of him.

 

[OrangeDW]

And to explain mine, I ultimately went with Christmas as he was at least a solid contributor as a soph and junior and had the great senior year. Even as a freshman he had a very nice NCAA tourney game when he got the chance.

I think ultimately he was the best overall center as he was very good on both ends with no real weakness. Fab was probably the best defender and a talented offensive player but left before he could fully blossom offensively. AO had the Achilles heel of FT shooting and while a solid defender he wasn’t as much of an impact player there as Fab and Rak.

Rick can get a bit overlooked. He became a really solid player on both ends. Think Christmas was just slightly better.

It’s why I posted this...I think there’s lots of arguments to be made and tough calls at all positions. I think you could put 3 pretty even teams of 5 together.

Edit: and even though most never considered him a “true” center, Tyler Lydon played there a lot and often did a heck of a job on both ends.

 

[721Comstock]

Part of those stats is the role they played due to the team they were on though. AO was splitting his stats with a Junior Jackson. Senior Jackson was splitting them with nobody.

Same thing with Senior Christmas. That was a weaker team and he got all the minutes and touches.

Senior AO got 10 ppg, but it was a super efficient 10 ppg in 22 minutes, on great FG percentage.

Soph. Fab Melo was on our deepest team(maybe ever?) with incredibly balanced scoring so 8 ppg was all they really needed out of him.

This is ALL TRUE. So stipulated.

But - these "All Time" players wouldn't be splitting minutes in these hypothetical lineups -
(and clearly, Rak, RickJack and SURPRISE! - Lydon) showed what they could do being The Man in terms of minutes played.

Also - OOOPS on AO - I used his Jr year stats, when in fact he had a better Soph year. My bad.
12.7 8.1, 1.3.
Sorry BIG FELLA!!!!

AO was very solid, literally and figuratively - but this isn't the All-Solid Team, it's the All-Time Team.
He's, frankly, the 4th or 5th best guy on that list. He's no better than 3rd, period.

Rak & RickJack are the guys who earned All-Conference honors - and with good reason.
And Rick and Fab were the Defensive POY's.

I love Baye Keita, and think "the Matrix" was awesome anchoring some of our best D's of recent vintage.
But he - like AO - is just a role player, not an All-Timer.

 

[Jake]

He wasn't even the best C on the '10 team - that was RickJack.
Our best lineup that year was C - Rick, - Wes, - KrisJo, G - Rautins, G- Scoop
.

Revisionist memory.

Then where’s our banner? We lost our shot at the NC because AO got hurt.

RJ Scored 4 points vs Butler when we really needed him.

I’m not saying your overall point isn’t valid, (that you would take SR RJ over SR AO), but to suggest that the 2010 team played better with AO on the bench is just flat out wrong.

 

[721Comstock]

Revisionist memory.

Then where’s our banner? We lost our shot at the NC because AO got hurt.

RJ Scored 4 points vs Butler when we really needed him.

I’m not saying your overall point isn’t valid, (that you would take SR RJ over SR AO), but to suggest that the 2010 team played better with AO on the bench is just flat out wrong.

Where’s the banner?

It’s in the same alternative universe as the 2012 banner -
where we self-reported nada, played Fab the whole way, and won it all.
Guess that means by your “logic” that Fab is at least as good as AO then?

AO played the 2nd least minutes of any starter that year - only Frosh Triche & Scoop played fewer, but they basically split the PG minutes.

Wes & Andy played All The Minutes.
Next were KrisJo & Rick.

JB apparently thought we were better with those guys getting those minutes.
Who am I to disagree?

That team played best when they ran.
And they ran best with Rick at the 5, Wes & KJo at , Andy & Scoop at G.

Butler beat us because:
A - we didn’t have AO’s 5 fouls, & Shonte was a huge step down as our 2nd big, and
B - they made it a half court rock fight, which played to their strengths and eliminated ours

But we’re getring into the weeds here.

AO was a very good college C.
Nobody is saying otherwise.
But he’s not the best of this past decade.
That’s my point.

 

[Jake]

Where’s the banner?

It’s in the same alternative universe as the 2012 banner -
where we self-reported nada, played Fab the whole way, and won it all.
Guess that means by your “logic” that Fab is at least as good as AO then?

AO played the 2nd least minutes of any starter that year - only Frosh Triche & Scoop played fewer, but they basically split the PG minutes.

Wes & Andy played All The Minutes.
Next were KrisJo & Rick.

JB apparently thought we were better with those guys getting those minutes.
Who am I to disagree?

That team played best when they ran.
And they ran best with Rick at the 5, Wes & KJo at , Andy & Scoop at G.

Butler beat us because:
A - we didn’t have AO’s 5 fouls, & Shonte was a huge step down as our 2nd big, and
B - they made it a half court rock fight, which played to their strengths and eliminated ours

But we’re getring into the weeds here.

AO was a very good college C.
Nobody is saying otherwise.
But he’s not the best of this past decade.
That’s my point.

I get your point...and I think that It’s very close among four Centers for the best of the past decade RJ, AO, Rak and Fab. I don’t think there’s really a wrong answer, I just think your argument that RJ was better than AO in 2010 is a case of “misremembering”

FTR..In 2009-10. Arinze shot 43% from the FT line. Rick shot 50%. There are no winners here...

 

[syrBossHogg]

Gbinije
Rautins
Fair
Johnson
Christmas

Most balanced team that can play to JB's philosophy IMO. Can get out in transition, shoot the ball well, run pick and rolls in the half court, run post plays, and play the zone well. My toughest choices were Gbinije over MCW and Christmas over AO.

 

[tbonezone]

silent g sharing a backcourt with battle would have been truly nasty.
wes was a truly gifted player but he disappeared at crunch time. so i'll take c.j.fair.
for defense underneath give me rick and raxmas. scoop and mooseman off the bench.

 

[Forloveoforange]

Michael Carter Williams
Dion Waiters
Wes Johnson
Rick Jackson
Fab Melo

 

[jgeorge322]

No way... You serious Bees?

Lol, does the pope crap in the woods?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

An MCW and Andy Rautins combo would be nice. Andy was great at the top of the zone and this would put our best shooter during this timeframe alongside, arguably, our best distributor.

Any team w/o Andy is flawed

 

[NateW]

Scoop
Andy
Malachi
Wes
AO