All inclusive Marvel thread, MCU, D+ shows, comics and whatever else is nerds desire.

[4evaOrange]

 

[cuseattle]

I saw the new Captain America and Thuderbolts*.
So hoping FF First Steps is good.
I was watching the Yankees game and they had "4" patches on their uniforms. Turns out it's Lou Gherig Day, but my first thought was FF advertising with how hard they're promoting it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I saw the new Captain America and Thuderbolts*.
So hoping FF First Steps is good.
I was watching the Yankees game and they had "4" patches on their uniforms. Turns out it's Lou Gherig Day, but my first thought was FF advertising with how hard they're promoting it.

I'm really optimistic that FF is going to be good.

Superman too.

Cautiously optimistic that they'll both be "true north" types of stories.

 

[cuseattle]

I'm really optimistic that FF is going to be good.

Superman too.

Cautiously optimistic that they'll both be "true north" types of stories.

Fingers crossed!

 

[BlazeOrange]

I'm behind the times since I can't justify seeing these in the theater anymore and wait them out on Disney+. So Brave New World is current for me.

Better than many recent movies, but no wow factor. Gotta suspend alot of disbelief that a regular guy can take on a hulk.

 

[cuseattle]

Last one

 

[BlazeOrange]

Ironheart has no dropped. So far, our hero has:
- Gotten kicked out of MIT for running a plagiarism racket
- Joined a criminal gang and stayed in it despite learning that they killed the guy she replaced
- Participated in two heists (I think that some guards were likely killed, but not sure)
- Murdered one of her crew by locking him on a no oxygen room

Did I miss anything?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Ironheart has no dropped. So far, our hero has:
- Gotten kicked out of MIT for running a plagiarism racket
- Joined a criminal gang and stayed in it despite learning that they killed the guy she replaced
- Participated in two heists (I think that some guards were likely killed, but not sure)
- Murdered one of her crew by locking him on a no oxygen room

Did I miss anything?

No that's a pretty good summary.

I've been entertained so far.

 

[4evaOrange]

So it’s worth a watch or forget about it ?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So it’s worth a watch or forget about it ?

Worth a watch. Here's my assessment of the Marvel Disney+ shows fwiw.

WandaVision - fantastic
Falcon and Winter Soldier - great action, highly watchable
Loki - season 1 slow, season 2 better
Hawkeye - forgettable but watchable
Moon Knight - dumpster fire, absolutely fumbled the execution. This show should have been great but it suuuuuuucked
Ms. Marvel - the best translation from comics to live TV we've seen yet, this show gets overlooked and was really good
She Hulk - misunderstood and took way too much crap because people didn't get the take on the character (her comics run was Deadpool before Deadpool and less crude), fun watch
Secret Invasion - sucked out loud, could have been great but they got it all wrong focusing on Skrull characters directly instead of ramping the paranoia of who is a Skrull and who's real
Echo - thought this was an interesting watch, really short though
Agatha All Along - was skeptical when this was announced but it was a fun watch
Ironheart - halfway through the season and
I'm entertained

 

[RF2044]

Ironheart has no dropped. So far, our hero has:
- Gotten kicked out of MIT for running a plagiarism racket
- Joined a criminal gang and stayed in it despite learning that they killed the guy she replaced
- Participated in two heists (I think that some guards were likely killed, but not sure)
- Murdered one of her crew by locking him on a no oxygen room

Did I miss anything?

No that's a pretty good summary.

I've been entertained so far.

So it’s worth a watch or forget about it ?

So far, it has been borderline unwatchable. I'm usually aligned with OiG on these show, but this sucks so far.

Characters and plot are both hot garbage. Putting it mildly.

The quality of MCU shows / movies has slipped several notches. Also putting that mildly.

 

[RF2044]

Worth a watch. Here's my assessment of the Marvel Disney+ shows fwiw.

WandaVision - fantastic
Falcon and Winter Soldier - great action, highly watchable
Loki - season 1 slow, season 2 better
Hawkeye - forgettable but watchable
Moon Knight - dumpster fire, absolutely fumbled the execution. This show should have been great but it suuuuuuucked
Ms. Marvel - the best translation from comics to live TV we've seen yet, this show gets overlooked and was really good
She Hulk - misunderstood and took way too much crap because people didn't get the take on the character (her comics run was Deadpool before Deadpool and less crude), fun watch
Secret Invasion - sucked out loud, could have been great but they got it all wrong focusing on Skrull characters directly instead of ramping the paranoia of who is a Skrull and who's real
Echo - thought this was an interesting watch, really short though
Agatha All Along - was skeptical when this was announced but it was a fun watch
Ironheart - halfway through the season and
I'm entertained

Decent summary, but thought Ms. Marvel was incredibly lame, too -- with a lousy ending.

Just don't see what you saw in it.

 

[cuseattle]

Worth a watch. Here's my assessment of the Marvel Disney+ shows fwiw.

WandaVision - fantastic
Falcon and Winter Soldier - great action, highly watchable
Loki - season 1 slow, season 2 better
Hawkeye - forgettable but watchable
Moon Knight - dumpster fire, absolutely fumbled the execution. This show should have been great but it suuuuuuucked
Ms. Marvel - the best translation from comics to live TV we've seen yet, this show gets overlooked and was really good
She Hulk - misunderstood and took way too much crap because people didn't get the take on the character (her comics run was Deadpool before Deadpool and less crude), fun watch
Secret Invasion - sucked out loud, could have been great but they got it all wrong focusing on Skrull characters directly instead of ramping the paranoia of who is a Skrull and who's real
Echo - thought this was an interesting watch, really short though
Agatha All Along - was skeptical when this was announced but it was a fun watch
Ironheart - halfway through the season and
I'm entertained

Hawkeye has been on my Christmas watch list for 3 years. Warm and fuzzy with great, likeable characters.
Edit - ...and Tony Dalton was Brilliant!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So far, it has been borderline unwatchable. I'm usually aligned with OiG on these show, but this sucks so far.

Characters and plot are both hot garbage. Putting it mildly.

The quality of MCU shows / movies has slipped several notches. Also putting that mildly.

My expectations were pretty low, so I'm sure that's a factor. I do really like the AI subplot. In fact I'd say Natalie is the real protagonist because for the reasons mentioned elsewhere Riri's not really all that likable.

Decent summary, but thought Ms. Marvel was incredibly lame, too -- with a lousy ending.

Just don't see what you saw in it.

Ms. Marvel really clicked for me because I felt like it carried over the fun and brightness you can get from comics and really adapted that feeling well to TV. Plus I really dug the family history angle and it sent me down a rabbit hole learning about the history of partition. I do agree that the season kind of just ended.

 

[RF2044]

My expectations were pretty low, so I'm sure that's a factor. I do really like the AI subplot. In fact I'd say Natalie is the real protagonist because for the reasons mentioned elsewhere Riri's not really all that likable.


Ms. Marvel really clicked for me because I felt like it carried over the fun and brightness you can get from comics and really adapted that feeling well to TV. Plus I really dug the family history angle and it sent me down a rabbit hole learning about the history of partition. I do agree that the season kind of just ended.

Ms. Marvel -- found it really boring at the beginning, then the stuff that happened mid-series [no spoilers, it's what you mention] was pretty interesting and got my attention, then it ended poorly.

Agree about Riri -- very difficult to view her as a sympathetic character, given how the series is unfolding. Just seems like Marvel / Disney miscalculate most of what they've put out there since Endgame.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Ms. Marvel -- found it really boring at the beginning, then the stuff that happened mid-series [no spoilers, it's what you mention] was pretty interesting and got my attention, then it ended poorly.

Agree about Riri -- very difficult to view her as a sympathetic character, given how the series is unfolding. Just seems like Marvel / Disney miscalculate most of what they've put out there since Endgame.

Expanding the universe was always going to be tricky. It's kind of amazing things were as cohesive as they were through End Game.

I think instead of going the multiverse route they should have considered subuniverses. A cosmic space one would have been great. A street crime one like the original Netflix run of shows. A mystic/magic one. Maybe an espionage centered one. Have those build up to their own big story. Still a single universe, but room for continuities.

 

[PoppyHart]

Expanding the universe was always going to be tricky. It's kind of amazing things were as cohesive as they were through End Game.

I think instead of going the multiverse route they should have considered subuniverses. A cosmic space one would have been great. A street crime one like the original Netflix run of shows. A mystic/magic one. Maybe an espionage centered one. Have those build up to their own big story. Still a single universe, but room for continuities.

It was about money and streaming content. They killed the golden goose thru saturation. Reminds me of the baseball card market in the late 80s.

https://www.wsj.com/business/media/marvel-avengers-mcu-robert-downey-jr-dr-doom-311f9ffc?st=Ne6TGh&reflink=article_copyURL_share

 

[4evaOrange]

I gotta be honest I never watched Loki season 2 or echo and I don’t really have any intention on watching ironheart

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Update on the coming Marvel shows All 12 MCU Shows Releasing After Ironheart - ComicBook.com All 12 MCU Shows Releasing After Ironheart

I hadn't seen that Nova is still sitting. I was looking forward to that one.

 

[RF2044]

So, I finally watched this last night with one of my daughters. I was surprised by how much I liked / enjoyed it.

I'm not suggesting that it was academy award material. And I could do without some of the slapstick humor with Red Guardian [he's essentially being written as the Thunderbolts version of Drax, all comic relief basically]. But otherwise, not bad.

I think that this should be the pattern for Marvel to follow, and there's an object lesson here [IMO] about how to craft content for peripheral characters. Marvel really seemed to lose their way in Phase 5 with both movies and shows, with all of the focus on minor characters, and then not understand why the reception to that set of content was tepid.

I get that there are fans out there for some of these specific characters, but in the big scheme of things most fans either aren't familiar with those minor characters or don't care about them as much as the ones they ARE fans of. And IMO, that is especially true of "replacement" characters. Simply marching them out isn't enough.

Most Marvel fans aren't as interested in Sam Wilson's Captain America as they were with Steve Rogers.

People aren't into Ironheart like they were into Iron Man.

They aren't into Kate Bishop as much as they were into Hawkeye [who wasn't one of the top tier Avengers, but still part of that original crew].

And it isn't because of gender or race, or any of the excuses that the directors of those movies / shows complained about when those movies / shows weren't well received. It's because they aren't as well known, understood, or interesting as the higher profile counterparts.

So if you're going to put out content focused on those characters, the story better be solid. And it needs to be character driven and relateable, so that people gain interest. People don't "know" nor care as much about Yelena as they do Natasha, so having her go through the guilt-ridden existential crisis in Thunderbolts makes her relateable, and far more compelling as a character. Same with John Walker -- he was a dick in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but showing his family struggles and seeing his attitude shift in this movie humanized him, and made him way more interesting.

Again, my opinion only -- but that's why a series like Ironheart flopped, but a series like Agatha All Along [introducing minor character Wiccan] succeeded, because the story was way better.

It's why a movie like CA: Brave New World [dud plot] was a disappointment, and why both The Marvels and Quantumania bombed, but Thunderbolts* was a pleasant surprise. The characters are the draw, but the plot is what makes or breaks the experience.

And I'm not saying that each of those "bad" Phase 5 efforts didn't have their moments. Sasha Baron Cohen as Mephisto was awesome at the end of Ironheart, but having to sit through six awful episodes where the main character wasn't sympathetic [given her criminal actions] to get to that payoff was a grind. I thought that the cut scene in The Marvels, where Monica Rambeau ends up in the X-Men universe, and that universe's version of her mom was Binary, was really cool. But the rest of the movie leading up to that, including a villain almost nobody had ever heard of before that barely made any sense, was unsatisfying. Seeing Red Hulk was really cool in Brave New World, but again a weird plot with a weird villain [The Leader] lessened the impact of the payoff.

Again, not saying that Thunderbolts* was perfect. I was surprised that Taskmaster had such a small role, that Ghost didn't have much of a part, and that Red Guardian was little more than comic relief. But I thought that the Yelana / John Walker / Bob stories showed some depth, as did De Fontaine.

It was more entertaining than most of the Phase 5 stuff, by a longshot.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So, I finally watched this last night with one of my daughters. I was surprised by how much I liked / enjoyed it.

I'm not suggesting that it was academy award material. And I could do without some of the slapstick humor with Red Guardian [he's essentially being written as the Thunderbolts version of Drax, all comic relief basically]. But otherwise, not bad.

I think that this should be the pattern for Marvel to follow, and there's an object lesson here [IMO] about how to craft content for peripheral characters. Marvel really seemed to lose their way in Phase 5 with both movies and shows, with all of the focus on minor characters.

I get that there are fans out there for some of these specific characters, but in the big scheme of things most fans either aren't familiar with those minor characters or don't care about them as much as the ones they ARE fans of. And IMO, that is especially true of "replacement" characters. Simply marching them out isn't enough.

Most Marvel fans aren't as interested in Sam Wilson's Captain America as they were with Steve Rogers.

People aren't into Ironheart like they were into Iron Man.

They aren't into Kate Bishop as much as they were into Hawkeye [who wasn't one of the top tier Avengers, but still part of that original crew].

And it isn't because of gender or race, or any of the excuses that the directors of those movies / shows complained about when those movies / shows weren't well received. It's because they aren't as well known, understood, or interesting as the higher profile counterparts.

So if you're going to put out content focused on those characters, the story better be solid. And it needs to be character driven and relateable, so that people gain interest. People don't "know" nor care as much about Yelena as they do Natasha, so having her go through the guilt-ridden existential crisis in Thunderbolts makes her relateable, and far more compelling as a character. Same with John Walker -- he was a dick in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but showing his family struggles and seeing his attitude shift in this movie humanized him, and made him way more interesting.

Again, my opinion only -- but that's why a series like Ironheart flopped, but a series like Agatha All Along [introducing minor character Wiccan] succeeded, because the story was way better.

It's why a movie like CA: Brave New World [dud plot] was a disappointment, and why both The Marvels and Quantumania bombed, but Thunderbolts* was a pleasant surprise. The characters are the draw, but the plot is what makes or breaks the experience.

And I'm not saying that each of those "bad" Phase 5 efforts didn't have their moments. Sasha Baron Cohen as Mephisto was awesome at the end of Ironheart, but having to sit through six awful episodes where the main character wasn't sympathetic [given her criminal actions] to get to that payoff was a grind. I thought that the cut scene in The Marvels, where Monica Rambeau ends up in the X-Men universe, and that universe's version of her mom was Binary, was really cool. But the rest of the movie leading up to that, including a villain almost nobody had ever heard of before that barely made any sense, was unsatisfying. Seeing Red Hulk was really cool in Brave New World, but again a weird plot with a weird villain [The Leader] lessened the impact of the payoff.

Again, not saying that Thunderbolts* was perfect. I was surprised that Taskmaster had such a small role, that Ghost didn't have much of a part, and that Red Guardian was little more than comic relief. But I thought that the Yelana / John Walker / Bob stories showed some depth, as did De Fontaine.

It was more entertaining than most of the Phase 5 stuff, by a longshot.

Well said, but you forgot the other thing that made Yelena relatable - she's really bored with her job.