Allen vs Hunt

[Legendof44]

People need to step back off the ledge. haha Teams make the biggest adjustment offensively from week 1 to week 2 typically. Give Allen a chance..kid has only been on campus for 4 weeks total..he clearly needs time to gel with the offense, and Coach McDonald is new. If we lost to PSU by 21 points there might be reason to panic a bit..but we didnt.

 

[TBCuse11]

So you think Pitt is better than PSU after that 41-13 drubbing by FSU? Yeah ok, i'd buy that for a dollar.

yes, i think they are much better than Penn State. 41-13? We will wish that was the score when we play them.

 

[TBCuse11]

Yes, but some believe if your opinion does not agree with theirs, then your eyes must be closed.

that isnt me. i could be wrongg about all of this, but some of the replies to this simple post stating that Allen was not what i had hoped are comical. People act as if they know everything. I reality, no one knows anything.

 

[Pyle]

... they are much better than Penn State...

Wow...just wow......

 

[OrangeDW]

I've been one of the biggest Allen backers around, but this was tough to watch. That being said, we have putrid WR's. Its a joke. Thank goodness Penn State's stud didnt play the first half or we lose that game by 20.

The play calling was atrocious. If we arent going to take shots deep, mine as well put Hunt in and run an Army/Navy type offense. Allen missed some throws for sure, but no one was open. Our O-line got crushed, and we were also very predictable on offense. Estime needs more PT. Our returning guys are just plain not cutting it.

McDonald showed us nothing when it comes to being an OC on saturday. i hope it improves, and it should. And the scary thing is that Penn State is not good. We have at least 6-7 more opponents who are better than they were. Could be a long year if we dont get this fixed. Fingers crossed.

So you say our OLine got crushed, and our WR's couldn't get open, yet are stumped on why we didn't take more deep shots?

 

[TBCuse11]

So you say our OLine got crushed, and our WR's couldn't get open, yet are stumped on why we didn't take more deep shots?

yeah. put a couple friggin TE's in to help block, or a RB, and let our WR get downfield so Allen can unleash the cannon. There was virtually no attempt to do this. Every pass play was a dump off.

 

[TBCuse11]

Wow...just wow......

well, "much" better was an exaggeration. I think they would beat them more than they wouldn't on a neutral field this season though..

 

[dollarbill44]

I am well aware that if you dont close your eyes to reality on these boards, you will be in the minority. I am fine with that. I guess we watched a different game on Saturday. I will happily be wrong if we come out and beat NW or Clemson. The truth is though we are more likely to lose to Tulane than we are likely to beat one of them.

I don't think any of us were happy with Saturday's performance, so I don't think it's an issue of watching a different game. The difference is that a lot of us recognize that game 1 is game 1 and is often not indicative of the way teams play the rest of the season, so we should step back, take a deep breath and see what transpires over the next few weeks before drawing any conclusions. Heck, I picked us to lose to PSU and NW and still go 7-5 and I still believe that is what is going to happen. Truth be told, I will be happy as long as we get a bowl game, even if it is at 6-6.

 

[dollarbill44]

yeah. put a couple friggin TE's in to help block, or a RB, and let our WR get downfield so Allen can unleash the cannon. There was virtually no attempt to do this. Every pass play was a dump off.

Maybe you did watch a different game after all.

 

[OrangeDW]

yeah. put a couple friggin TE's in to help block, or a RB, and let our WR get downfield so Allen can unleash the cannon. There was virtually no attempt to do this. Every pass play was a dump off.

But the WR's are putrid and can't get open, aren't they?

A couple TE's in to block, yet throw deep? Should be real tough for a defense to cover someone deep when there's only 2 guys running routes.

 

[Chip]

Oy.

It's the same WR's - Sales, that started against NW last year, with the addition of Flemming and Estime. That group had 360 out of 480 receiving yds.

They aren't putrid.

There aren't 6 or 7 better defenses on the schedule this year.

I don't really get these comparisons to the 2012 Northwestern game.

A. The game was basically an outlier of our passing game. Not just for 2012, but like basically, forever in SU football.
B We played a team who had a 22 point lead halfway thru the 3rd quarter, so I don't think they were throwing their most aggressive schemes at us for a good stretch, and it nearly burned them.
C. The QB who was throwing to these guys was going into his 3rd year starting and is now in the NFL
D. One WR, who's not here, had 12 catches for 130 yards, so maybe the other guys were able to make more plays because the defense had to focus more on him.

I know what you're trying to say to the original poster in this thread (whose post I think is completely ridiculous) but I just think any comparisons of last year's opener to this year's opener make little to no sense.

If we go into Northwestern and dwarf last year's terrible Minnesota game (won't take much), will that mean the offense has improved that much from last year? They are similar, they're both against B1G teams on the road on a September evening.

 

[CU44SE]

I dont agree with everything the OP said, but there was a lot not to like about Allen. As much as I would like to say I see him improving im not so sure its worth it. I know people will disagree, but he locks on to one receiver, he threw a lot of uncatchable balls, and if you ask me he looked like the true freshman quarterback on Saturday. He looked shell shocked and unfamiliar with things. Obviously its to be expected because he hasnt started before, but its not like he hasnt been in college or thrown a pass in a college game before. Obvioulsy their was other issues on offense but whats to gain out of playing him this whole year opposed to Hunt? Maybe Hunt is not the starter next year (maybe he is passed up by someone else) but you allow him to improve and gain experience this whole year to improve and you have him for the next two years. It may take Allen 5-6 games to improve and at that point how is that helping SU in the future. You basically waste a year and then next year are starting another inexperienced quarterback who may need a few games to get settled in the position.

 

[TBCuse11]

But the WR's are putrid and can't get open, aren't they?

A couple TE's in to block, yet throw deep? Should be real tough for a defense to cover someone deep when there's only 2 guys running routes.

anyone can get open if they have enough time to run. even Deion Sanders couldnt cover someone for an infinite amount of time.

 

[xc84]

that isnt me. i could be wrongg about all of this, but some of the replies to this simple post stating that Allen was not what i had hoped are comical. People act as if they know everything. I reality, no one knows anything.

Really, it wasn't you who wrote this general statement "I am well aware that if you dont close your eyes to reality on these boards, you will be in the minority." Obviously you are accusing most (the non-"minority) on this board of having their eyes closed and coming to a conclusion simply based on their fan bias and not anything they may have actually seen. I think my initial take remains valid.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I don't really get these comparisons to the 2012 Northwestern game.

A. The game was basically an outlier of our passing game. Not just for 2012, but like basically, forever in SU football.
B We played a team who had a 22 point lead halfway thru the 3rd quarter, so I don't think they were throwing their most aggressive schemes at us for a good stretch, and it nearly burned them.
C. The QB who was throwing to these guys was going into his 3rd year starting and is now in the NFL
D. One WR, who's not here, had 12 catches for 130 yards, so maybe the other guys were able to make more plays because the defense had to focus more on him.

I know what you're trying to say to the original poster in this thread (whose post I think is completely ridiculous) but I just think any comparisons of last year's opener to this year's opener make little to no sense.

If we go into Northwestern and dwarf last year's terrible Minnesota game (won't take much), will that mean the offense has improved that much from last year? They are similar, they're both against B1G teams on the road on a September evening.

Good post Chip, I couldn't agree more with trying to compare this game to last years opener or even this years offense versus what last years offense was able to become in the second half of the season. I do think this weeks game will give us a good insight into whether or not this offense can make adjustments and can be counted on to compete against high level teams. Laying another stinker against NW on Saturday would be a pretty devestating outcome.

 

[GoSU96]

I am well aware that if you dont close your eyes to reality on these boards, you will be in the minority. I am fine with that. I guess we watched a different game on Saturday. I will happily be wrong if we come out and beat NW or Clemson. The truth is though we are more likely to lose to Tulane than we are likely to beat one of them.

Gotta figure out the O-line fast for this season to end up in a bowl game.

There is a whole lot of distance between Clemson and FSU and the rest of schedule. By a lot, I mean over the horizon. Those two are better than any team SU played last year, but after that last years schedule was harder top to bottom.

This is a program coming off of a 21-17 three year record, has restablished itself as competitive with its peer programs and capable of winning at home, on the road, and neutral site games. The defense has to replace one impact player has 1o upperclassmen starters and has a couple of freshmen that have pushed into potential positions in the rotation.

The OL has 4 guys who started games last year and one who played specials and in limited packages. Last year it featured 3 guys who had never taken a game snap when the season started. All the RB's are back, the top TE, a bunch of WR's who saw playing timing, all made big plays, and scored. Overall it's an experienced group, and there is better raw talent behind many of those guys.

The program has not fallen off the table because some guys got drafted, any program that is any good deals with that every season.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't really get these comparisons to the 2012 Northwestern game.

A. The game was basically an outlier of our passing game. Not just for 2012, but like basically, forever in SU football.
B We played a team who had a 22 point lead halfway thru the 3rd quarter, so I don't think they were throwing their most aggressive schemes at us for a good stretch, and it nearly burned them.
C. The QB who was throwing to these guys was going into his 3rd year starting and is now in the NFL
D. One WR, who's not here, had 12 catches for 130 yards, so maybe the other guys were able to make more plays because the defense had to focus more on him.

I know what you're trying to say to the original poster in this thread (whose post I think is completely ridiculous) but I just think any comparisons of last year's opener to this year's opener make little to no sense.

If we go into Northwestern and dwarf last year's terrible Minnesota game (won't take much), will that mean the offense has improved that much from last year? They are similar, they're both against B1G teams on the road on a September evening.

It's in response to these are all new guys and the suck nonsense. The majority skill position players played quite a bit last year and they all made plays. They have all proven in spots they can get it done.

That's the point.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I can't wait for Saturday, either going to get a lot worse around here or people can breathe a bit. I must be mellowing in my old age!!

Like I said, we definitely sucked on offense Saturday, lets hope it gets better and Allen should get 3.5 games to show what he can do. Hopefully, we can get Hunt in for Wagner regardless. If are still struggling come Tulane time for a change, we don't owe Allen an entire season

 

[JeremyCuse]

I can't wait for Saturday, either going to get a lot worse around here or people can breathe a bit. I must be mellowing in my old age!!

Like I said, we definitely sucked on offense Saturday, lets hope it gets better and Allen should get 3.5 games to show what he can do. Hopefully, we can get Hunt in for Wagner regardless. If are still struggling come Tulane time for a change, we don't owe Allen an entire season

Pretty much my feelings as well, between Allen, the Wr's and the playcalling there was plenty of blame to go around last week. I am looking forward to seeing a much better offense on Saturday from everyone including Allen, the play calling, and the WR's. All that being said, if as you noted by Tulane things are still a mess I think wholesale changes should be made. Giving Hunt a look, moving Thompson back to TE, force feeding Estime and Funderburk playing time amongst other things. One thing that should happen Saturday is Smith should receive 20+ carries and go back to being the main guy as he was for most of the second half last year, the fact he only played 10 snaps or whatever it was in the second half last saturday is criminal.

 

[TBCuse11]

Pretty much my feelings as well, between Allen, the Wr's and the playcalling there was plenty of blame to go around last week. I am looking forward to seeing a much better offense on Saturday from everyone including Allen, the play calling, and the WR's. All that being said, if as you noted by Tulane things are still a mess I think wholesale changes should be made. Giving Hunt a look, moving Thompson back to TE, force feeding Estime and Funderburk playing time amongst other things. One thing that should happen Saturday is Smith should receive 20+ carries and go back to being the main guy as he was for most of the second half last year, the fact he only played 10 snaps or whatever it was in the second half last saturday is criminal.

Smith needs 25+ carries. he is much better than PTG. He is a workhorse. Problem is, we could be down 21-0 in the blink of an eye this weekend. people who are in some way trying to claim Penn State is anything other than mediocre will be in for a crazy rude awakening when they watch NW. NW is a real team with a VERY dangerous offense.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Smith needs 25+ carries. he is much better than PTG. He is a workhorse. Problem is, we could be down 21-0 in the blink of an eye this weekend. people who are in some way trying to claim Penn State is anything other than mediocre will be in for a crazy rude awakening when they watch NW. NW is a real team with a VERY dangerous offense.

I think NW and PSU are on about the same level, just very different teams. I think their offense will present bigger challenges but their defense less challenges, which is good for Syracuse. We should be able to move the ball but I think they will move it as well. If we can pass well enough to run the ball with the 3 running backs we have a shot at winning for sure. I feel like we can win the game but if we aren't effective on offense it will be a very long day, the running game will go a long ways on taking some heat off GMC and Allen.

Just my opinion but the only game I don't see us ever losing is Wagner, only game I can't ever see us winning is FSU and probably Clemson but in the dome anything can happen. OK to be critical just be reasonable, god knows I have crossed that line 10,000 times in the 12-13 years I have been around here, ( As most will acknowledge)

 

[Pyle]

Smith needs 25+ carries. he is much better than PTG. He is a workhorse. Problem is, we could be down 21-0 in the blink of an eye this weekend. people who are in some way trying to claim Penn State is anything other than mediocre will be in for a crazy rude awakening when they watch NW. NW is a real team with a VERY dangerous offense.

And a lousy defense. PSU defense is much bigger and designed to stop the run against other B1G schools. NW offense is lights out better than PSU. Both tough teams, very different challenges as IthacaBarrel alluded to.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And a lousy defense. PSU defense is much bigger and designed to stop the run against other B1G schools. NW offense is lights out better than PSU. Both tough teams, very different challenges as IthacaBarrel alluded to.

We have always matched up OK with NW, even in GROB's venture out there, we hung on there for the most part, I expect us to have a shot at winning. Don't know if we will obviously but I don't expect to be blown out

 

[GoSU96]

Smith needs 25+ carries. he is much better than PTG. He is a workhorse. Problem is, we could be down 21-0 in the blink of an eye this weekend. people who are in some way trying to claim Penn State is anything other than mediocre will be in for a crazy rude awakening when they watch NW. NW is a real team with a VERY dangerous offense.

25 carries? Only three of the top 100 RB's averaged 25 or more carries a game last year.

I agree that the running game has to be better, it doesn't mean you have to force feed any one guy. I'd rather see Morris get Gulley's carries.

And you seem to not even bother looking at defenses when you assess who is "mediocre".

Northwestern was a run heavy team last year, 62% of their plays, 57% of their yards, 69% of their offensive TD's. They are going to be hampered there with the injuries. And before you go but, but, but, what about the Cal game, they were awful last year.

 

[wfschrec]

Ok so let me get this straight ... PSU isn't good ... hmmmm

8-4 (should be 9-3 if Fickel made 1 of 5 FGs against UVA ... of course he hits them all against us) with a win over Wisky
PSU beat the same NW team we lost to by two scores while holding them to 247 total yards last season, and guess what PSU will be better defensively this year book it.
Robinson had two impact plays and was relatively a non-factor after 1 drive, more than half his yardage was on those 2 catches ... the other 5 were mostly non-impactful.
Hackenburg will be much better than McGloin and by seasons end will be as effective if not more than McGloin was at the start of his senior campaign.
McGloin in game 1 vs Ohio last season (a team that was just manhandled by U of L) threw for only 260 yards and 2 scores .. less than Hackenburg against a D not even nearly as good as SU's ...
PSU's biggest problem last season was mobile QBs ... just look at their results vs who did the damage to them when they lost ... if Allen were more mobile or made more mobile by our coaches he would have been more effective

NW allowed nearly 450 yards to a frosh QB (not one nearly as highly ranked as Hack) and would have lost had he not also lumped in three picks with two returned for scores ... our wideouts will not be the issue in the NW game I can assure you of that.

Cal is not a very good football team ... and I like our odds against NW and not sure how anyone else couldn't either.

I do agree that Smith needs more touches and seeing him get to the edge on Saturday against that aggressive PSU D leads me to believe that he is due for a heck of a season ... I also know PTG is going to get his fair share but I would rather see him getting swing passes and screens to supplement a robust 25 carries by Smith ... my suspicion is you would see about 5.0 ypc out of him if he gets into a rhythm.