Am I the only one here that thinks

[ImperialOrange]

IO - I agree with you in that I see BJ's ultimate spot as a shooting 3. Kind of like a JS role. I also think in his frosh year his role will be limited and he will grow into it.

But I think part of his frosh role could be as a shooter. I think SU has an unsettled shooter role for next season. And as such, BJ may be in competition with Cooney for minutes for that role. As we come up against basic zones designed to hinder the CJ, DC2, Grant domination, the unattended outside will need to be exploited. If Cooney sends up an air ball in Maui how long can you keep him in. Who's next?

Gbinjie, if not him then Patterson? Honestly, noone really knows especially myself. We have a great problem to have being a wealth of versatile talent. Where they land and how much PT they get will be fun to see but until well after Maui we really won't know. Cooney will get his shoot through Maui and likely quite a bit after. If we're 10+ games in and he's shown little/no improvement then we'll see others get more minutes in his place. Guys won't play because they "have to", they'll play because they earn it and we can't keep them off the court. Hopefully Cooney makes the jump and we won't have to deal with 2 new players on top of the zone next season for a majority of games. If he doesn't, hopefully we get other guys well acclimated to the zone before ACC play.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Terrible reasoning. Was MG available? BJ, Buss?
Secondly, how did that work out for us? Who wouldn't want to repeat that...oh, wait.

Third, unrelated rant. But when a shooter hits and is on, shouldn't they shoot? The 6th man Spike or Hancock - did they go 1 for 1? Stop after their first one? We needed a hot shooter and it wasn't JS' day. We now will never know if it was Cooneys. I contend he was our Spike but didn't have the stones to let it rip. And if he had hit for just a few more he would have extended his stay on the floor and we probably wouldn't have had both our starters foul out.

37 years of watching Jim Boeheim coached teams and i have terrible reasoning.

but because you saw some HS kid knock down open jumpers in an empty gym, Cooney gets skipped over in the rotation, that is your premis.

yeah ok sport...

:rolling:

Oh Lord

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not sure why anyone thinks TC and BJ will be fighting for the same minutes? BJ is our next CJ/Southerland aka a wing not a 2 guard.

Because on paper, he looks like the 4th choice at forward, whereas he has a skill that is in short supply - 3 point shooting. His perceived deficiency will be his ability to rebound on the back line, weighing only about 170 or so. Just for comparison, that's only about 5 pounds m0re than MCW weighs, and he is an inch taller, so we are talking stringbean territory here. I think BJ sees court time earlier at our unsettled guard situation, where his height and length could make him a better defender, i.e. have more positive impact, than he could on the back line.

I don't see Boeheim trusting BJ to be able rebound and defend at a higher level than Fair, Grant and Roberson, and don't forget, Christmas and/or Coleman could be rotated at , too, like we did early in the year, placing further demands on the time available in the back corners of the zone.

 

[jordoo]

For those who feel that Cooney will start over G next year do you also think that if G had been an option this year JB wouldn't have gone to him? We had no other option, Cooney hustled played hard and knew the defense pretty well. But you must be careful to over estimate the successes he did have when as a fan you were desperate for a viable third guard. We tenf d to overlook the mistakes and highlight the few successes in that type of situation. Connery struggled mightily on the offensive end and what success he did have was because teams really didn't worry about him. I like the kid he plays hard his upper body shooting mechanics are very good and he has a knack for getting his hands on the ball playing the 2-3 but I think most are delusional if they think that G wouldn't have taken all those minutes and a few more getting MCW and Brandon more rest or sitting them when they struggled. We needed shooters and scorers that's what G is and I fully expect him to start alongside Ennis.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Because on paper, he looks like the 4th choice at forward, whereas he has a skill that is in short supply - 3 point shooting. His perceived deficiency will be his ability to rebound on the back line, weighing only about 170 or so. Just for comparison, that's only about 5 pounds m0re than MCW weighs, and he is an inch taller, so we are talking stringbean territory here. I think BJ sees court time earlier at our unsettled guard situation, where his height and length could make him a better defender, i.e. have more positive impact, than he could on the back line.

I don't see Boeheim trusting BJ to be able rebound and defend at a higher level than Fair, Grant and Roberson, and don't forget, Christmas and/or Coleman could be rotated at , too, like we did early in the year, placing further demands on the time available in the back corners of the zone.

Is Rak officially coming back? I was under the impression that he was gone which would lock DC2 and Baye @ the 5 rotation. Not sure DC2 is best suited at the 4 anyway but Rak could play there some if he comes back. CJ won't be sitting the bench more than 5-10 mpg though, and I'm in the camp that expects big things from Grant next year at the 4.

We'll have to see what the new guys actually look like when they hit campus. Grant went from 6'6 to 6'10 before hitting campus. I'm expecting BJ is 6'7+ and adds 15+ lbs between now and next season. That may or may not be the case of course.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We needed shooters and scorers that's what G is and I fully expect him to start alongside Ennis.

I don't think anyone in this thread expects Cooney to start next season. It's mostly an argument about whether or not Patterson (or, to a much lesser extent, BJ) could take the third guard position.

Some people think Cooney is the second coming of senior Rautins and just needs to get his head straight. Some don't.

but because you saw some HS kid knock down open jumpers in an empty gym, Cooney gets skipped over in the rotation, that is your premis.

Well, that's all we have to go on with Cooney because he sure isn't knocking 'em down in games despite having a redshirt season. And unlike this season, there's competition for him. Boeheim gives minutes to the best players. And until we're deep into next season's non-conference slate, it's impossible to say that Cooney is without a doubt the 3rd best guard on the team.

 

[EastCoast2]

Yes. you are the only one. Patterson will play, but I see Gbinije as likely to be more ready to play at the level we need. He had a year at Duke, plus a year already in the program. I see Patterson as battling Cooney for the third guard spot. And Patterson's forte is defense, which Cooney did pretty well at, by most people's accounts.

Again, I never said Patterson will start. Ennis and G start. Cooney is 4th guard

 

[jordoo]

I think Ennis and G start and the 3rd guard minutes will be very competitive between Ron, Cooney and BJ. I could see a 4 guard rotation because we need a back up PG and if G doesn't work out in that roll I suspect Ron will get the call.

 

[Gabjon]

Nothing to disagree with here at all. BJ could be used at both 2 & 3 next year but after this years class there appears to a log jam at the guard spots (if we land Jospeh) and no heir apperent to CJ's spot. I think BJ could play the 2 if needed but will be much better groomed to take over for CJ after next year which makes his outside shooting even more exciting. He won't be a KrisJo type that will have to learn to shoot the 3, he already has it.

Per OGB (BJ's father) BJ is 6'7 and still growing. BJ's not coming in to sit the bench but aware PT his first year could be sparse and will have to be earned. Luckily, he has the mental make up to accept that but also the work ethic to go after it and make it hard for the coaches to keep him off the court (Thank you for that OGB!).

If Buss isn't going to redshirt then we have a 4 guard rotation and BJ could back up CJ and potentially at times play w/ CJ on the other wing if we're looking for a lineup with better handling. Not sure Grant or Roberson have the necessary handle or not at this point for when we play pressing teams.

Four things:
First BJ was a guard until he sprouted a few inches over the last couple of years.

Second he is the same height and a few pounds lighter than Mike G is now.

Third we still have McCullough coming in 2014 so I don't see room for JB at the forward spot.

Lastly we have been playing big since the 2010 team with great success so I think that trend will continue.


I thing the only way BJ plays meaningful minutes at the 3 is if we don't have enough shooting the floor. I.E. Ennis, Mike G and CJ struggle from 3pt land. I don't see CJ struggling next year nor do I see Ennis struggling but anything is possible.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Third we still have McCullough coming in 2014 so I don't see room for JB at the forward spot.

Is McCullough projecting as a 3 or a 4? I was under the impression he was a 4.

 

[jordoo]

Is McCullough projecting as a 3 or a 4? I was under the impression he was a 4.

Big enough to be a 4 skilled enough to be a 3. He'll be great next to Grant, Roberson or BJ. We will create all sorts of problems for other teams trying to guard them.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Is McCullough projecting as a 3 or a 4? I was under the impression he was a 4.

McCullough is purely a 4. Grant could conceivably blow up next year and leave with CJ. I think Coleman could as well, but I don't think that it's very likely. Leaving 2014 with sophomores Roberson/BJ at the 3 and frosh McCullough at the 4. Having Grant/Roberson and McCullough is fine, too. BJ would then be able to rotate between the 2 & 3 depending on what happens with Mike G after next season.

Syracuse is awfully talented on paper for the next few seasons. How things shake out and who steps up their game will be interesting to watch.

 

[ImperialOrange]

McCullough is purely a 4. Grant could conceivably blow up next year and leave with CJ. I think Coleman could as well, but I don't think that it's very likely. Leaving 2014 with sophomores Roberson/BJ at the 3 and frosh McCullough at the 4. Having Grant/Roberson and McCullough is fine, too. BJ would then be able to rotate between the 2 & 3 depending on what happens with Mike G after next season.

Syracuse is awfully talented on paper for the next few seasons. How things shake out and who steps up their game will be interesting to watch.

Thought Roberson was a 4 as well?

 

[Widget24]

Syracuse is awfully talented on paper for the next few seasons. How things shake out and who steps up their game will be interesting to watch.

That right there is the key.

 

[Gabjon]

Is McCullough projecting as a 3 or a 4? I was under the impression he was a 4.

He is a 4 but he will push Grant or/and Roberson to the 3. McCullough plays like James but 2 inches taller. A stretch 4 but Idon't believe he is as good of a shooter as Jame is right now.

 

[jordoo]

McCullough can shoot but unlike James he attacks the basket very hard off the bounce. He will be able to play at the 3 offensively for us even if he is the bigger forward.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Gbinjie, if not him then Patterson? Honestly, noone really knows especially myself. We have a great problem to have being a wealth of versatile talent. Where they land and how much PT they get will be fun to see but until well after Maui we really won't know. Cooney will get his shoot through Maui and likely quite a bit after. If we're 10+ games in and he's shown little/no improvement then we'll see others get more minutes in his place. Guys won't play because they "have to", they'll play because they earn it and we can't keep them off the court. Hopefully Cooney makes the jump and we won't have to deal with 2 new players on top of the zone next season for a majority of games. If he doesn't, hopefully we get other guys well acclimated to the zone before ACC play.

Despite Cooney's experience this year, we essentially have 4 unproven guys competing for the guard spots. There isn't any one solid guy that we have coming back to rely on to steady the backcourt. I don't recall a situation like this in a long time, if ever.

 

[jordoo]

Despite Cooney's experience this year, we essentially have 4 unproven guys competing for the guard spots. There isn't any one solid guy that we have coming back to rely on to steady the backcourt. I don't recall a situation like this in a long time, if ever.

Closest comparison would be the year Devo and Andy went down. At least we had Devo for the pre conference protion of the the schedule. Didn't Josh Wright bail about 4 games in as well when it became apparent that he was competing with Scoop for minutes as the 3rd guard?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Is Rak officially coming back? I was under the impression that he was gone which would lock DC2 and Baye @ the 5 rotation. Not sure DC2 is best suited at the 4 anyway but Rak could play there some if he comes back. CJ won't be sitting the bench more than 5-10 mpg though, and I'm in the camp that expects big things from Grant next year at the 4.

We'll have to see what the new guys actually look like when they hit campus. Grant went from 6'6 to 6'10 before hitting campus. I'm expecting BJ is 6'7+ and adds 15+ lbs between now and next season. That may or may not be the case of course.

Well, I don't see Rak going pro, unless his financial situation is desperate, because he will only play in Europe at this point, and not even in their top leagues, like Spain. I have been hearing rumors that he will be transferring for about 3 months now, and wouldn't be surprised, because he hasn't made any offensive improvements in 2 years in the program, and he's probably getting tired of getting pulled from games all the time.

So I could see him transferring as a kind of "reboot" to another school where he could be a contributor. No matter where he goes or what he chooses, though, he has to play with higher energy, and he has to be smarter about his defensive positioning. He still reaches too much and commits too many fouls, and that's hiding him a bit in the zone.

But until we hear something official, I'm assuming he's coming back.

 

[Orangezoo]

Closest comparison would be the year Devo and Andy went down. At least we had Devo for the pre conference protion of the the schedule. Didn't Josh Wright bail about 4 games in as well when it became apparent that he was competing with Scoop for minutes as the 3rd guard?

I would say the closest is 03. GMAC/Billy and then Kueth who despite being a sr still wasn't a bigtime contributor before then. That back court definitely learned on the fly.

One thing that would really help Cooney would be for him to work on getting his own shot off the dribble. If I recall he did that a lot in HS and now against faster and bigger defenders he needs to work on being able to do that here. I am not saying he needs to be Dion but the ability to have the ball, get a pick and step into a jumper would really help. James at 6'8 didn't need to do that to get his shot off. Because Cooney isn't 6'8 he will need to be able to set himself up for a shot occassionally of the dribble. Doing that would help him a lot and not force him to hurry, spot up and beat the closeout every time. Heck even Andy had the ability to dribble a bit to get himself a better shot from deep.

 

[IthacaMatt]

McCullough is purely a 4. Grant could conceivably blow up next year and leave with CJ. I think Coleman could as well, but I don't think that it's very likely. Leaving 2014 with sophomores Roberson/BJ at the 3 and frosh McCullough at the 4. Having Grant/Roberson and McCullough is fine, too. BJ would then be able to rotate between the 2 & 3 depending on what happens with Mike G after next season.

Syracuse is awfully talented on paper for the next few seasons. How things shake out and who steps up their game will be interesting to watch.

If Grant doesn't blow up and go pro next year, we will have an elite front line in 2014-15, with DC (JR) and Rak (SR) at center (I'd be damned surprised if either one of them blow up next year), McCullough, Grant, Roberson and BJ at the forwards. That is a sick group of talent up front.

Then add in Silent G as a SR at 2G, Soph Ennis at the point, JR Cooney as backup shooting guard and Soph Patterson as the defensive guard who can slash and score a bit from outside. Plus we will probably add another elite level guard to that freshman class.

The year after next really looks like another Final Four caliber team.

 

[jordoo]

I would say the closest is 03. GMAC/Billy and then Kueth who despite being a sr still wasn't a bigtime contributor before then. That back court definitely learned on the fly.

One thing that would really help Cooney would be for him to work on getting his own shot off the dribble. If I recall he did that a lot in HS and now against faster and bigger defenders he needs to work on being able to do that here. I am not saying he needs to be Dion but the ability to have the ball, get a pick and step into a jumper would really help. James at 6'8 didn't need to do that to get his shot off. Because Cooney isn't 6'8 he will need to be able to set himself up for a shot occassionally of the dribble. Doing that would help him a lot and not force him to hurry, spot up and beat the closeout every time. Heck even Andy had the ability to dribble a bit to get himself a better shot from deep.

Yah, Probably a better comparison. The advantage we have though is we do at least have 2 guys who have been in our system for a while even if the court experience is very limited. (Cooney and G)

 

[IthacaMatt]

He is a 4 but he will push Grant or/and Roberson to the 3. McCullough plays like James but 2 inches taller. A stretch 4 but Idon't believe he is as good of a shooter as Jame is right now.

No, McCullough doesn't play like Southerland, IMO. He's not a stand-still jump shooter from 3. McCullough has a much more well-rounded game, but not quite as a good an outside shot.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Despite Cooney's experience this year, we essentially have 4 unproven guys competing for the guard spots. There isn't any one solid guy that we have coming back to rely on to steady the backcourt. I don't recall a situation like this in a long time, if ever.

We keep recruiting elite talent at guards and therefore don't have many stay 4 (or 5) years. Fair amount are 2 and done. In the last decade we've had only 4 gaurds use up their eligability; those being Triche this year ('09 recruit), Scoop ('07), Rautins ('05), McNamara ('02). Cooney is our next shot at a 4 or 5 year player as a 2011 recruit. In the meantime we've lost MCW ('11), Waiters ('10), Flynn ('07), and Devo ('05) early. The rest of our guard recruits either flamed out or never made it to campus (Wright, Mayben).

Seems this will be a continued issue for the forseeable future but one SU and the other big boys will have to learn to deal with and account for. Perhaps Cooney was more of a BMK type recruit as far as expecting 4 years while filling in the pieces around him?

 

[IthacaMatt]

We keep recruiting elite talent at guards and therefore don't have many stay 4 (or 5) years. Fair amount are 2 and done. In the last decade we've had only 4 gaurds use up their eligability; those being Triche this year ('09 recruit), Scoop ('07), Rautins ('05), McNamara ('02). Cooney is our next shot at a 4 or 5 year player as a 2011 recruit. In the meantime we've lost MCW ('11), Waiters ('10), Flynn ('07), and Devo ('05) early. The rest of our guard recruits either flamed out or never made it to campus (Wright, Mayben).

Seems this will be a continued issue for the forseeable future but one SU and the other big boys will have to learn to deal with and account for. Perhaps Cooney was more of a BMK type recruit as far as expecting 4 years while filling in the pieces around him?

Good analysis. The small number of 4 year players over the last 10 years at guard is really eye-opening.