An Analysis of Cooney's stats...

[Brooky03]

In conference 33.8% for a SG is still poor. It is better than what he does in Feb-March but not where it should be. Even his Nov-Dec-Jan numbers wouldn't quantify him as a good shooter either. Being a 37.6% shooter isn't even close nationally. Minimum 100 attempts the 60th best 3 point shooter is at 42.6% on the year. Minimum 2.5 threes made per game would put a 37.6% shooter at 84th nationally. So even Cooney at his best can't be considered a good shooter. That doesn't cut it especially for a 5th year SR.

37.6% would be a good shooter in anybody's book lol.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

37.6% would be a good shooter in anybody's book lol.

If that is what you think. The FACT is there are a lot of guys shooting over 40%. So how can 37.5% be good when there are many who do better? That is just silly. In today's game 37.5% is average for a SG.

 

[br801]

If that is what you think. The FACT is there are a lot of guys shooting over 40%. So how can 37.5% be good when there are many who do better? That is just silly. In today's game 37.5% is average for a SG.

The guys shooting over 40% generally aren't the extreme high volume 3-point shooters like Cooney. His role on this team is to put up a lot of shots from deep, and many of them wind up being high degree of difficulty shots taken late in the shot clock.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The guys shooting over 40% generally aren't the extreme high volume 3-point shooters like Cooney. His role on this team is to put up a lot of shots from deep, and many of them wind up being high degree of difficulty shots taken late in the shot clock.

Again, I think the blame for that is our lack of a true offense. He's a bail out option when he should be the second or third option in a flowing offense.

EDIT - Let me clarify. I guess I mean an offense that works with the players you have, without forcing the players to follow one specific system not ideally suited for them.

 

[kcsu]

Again, I think the blame for that is our lack of a true offense. He's a bail out option when he should be the second or third option in a flowing offense.

EDIT - Let me clarify. I guess I mean an offense that works with the players you have, without forcing the players to follow one specific system not ideally suited for them.

Dont mind the coon dog. He is tough kid plays good d and hustles like charlie but he simply is not a good shooter. It is that simple he cant shoot worth a darn yes he might get hot and have a streak but game in game out spring or fall tough team or occ he simply is not a good shooter. I have posted this before but i believe that he lost his shot when he started to build his upper body. Lost his touch

 

[br801]

Again, I think the blame for that is our lack of a true offense. He's a bail out option when he should be the second or third option in a flowing offense.

EDIT - Let me clarify. I guess I mean an offense that works with the players you have, without forcing the players to follow one specific system not ideally suited for them.

Oh, I agree with that.

And I wasn't so much making a case that he is a great shooter but rather suggesting that a player's 3-point percentage should be evaluated within the context of his role on the team.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The guys shooting over 40% generally aren't the extreme high volume 3-point shooters like Cooney. His role on this team is to put up a lot of shots from deep, and many of them wind up being high degree of difficulty shots taken late in the shot clock.

Why is that his role? His role is to just be a gunner launching off balance threes off curls? That's a lame way to "justify" it.

We have three other shooters on the floor.

 

[br801]

Why is that his role? His role is to just be a gunner launching off balance threes off curls? That's a lame way to "justify" it.

We have three other shooters on the floor.

JB early on determined that this team would rely heavily on the 3-ball to score. He has three high volume 3-point shooters on this team and another more selective 3-point shooter, all of whom have shot decently from deep on the season. But the nature of the shot is that players (and teams) will run hot and cold from game to game, or even within a game, and the problem becomes exacerbated when you have no consistent low post scorers to fall back on.

 

[NineOneSeven]

JB early on determined that this team would rely heavily on the 3-ball to score. He has three high volume 3-point shooters on this team and another more selective 3-point shooter, all of whom have shot decently from deep on the season. But the nature of the shot is that players (and teams) will run cold and ice cold from game to game, or even within a game, and the problem becomes exacerbated when you have no consistent low post scorers to fall back on.

The premise of your point makes sense on paper. If I didn't know who you were talking about or watch the games I could get behind it. But I've watched this for three years. And shot selection still matters.

I also fixed it for you

 

[br801]

The premise of your point makes sense on paper. If I didn't know who you were talking about or watch the games I could get behind it. But I've watched this for three years. And shot selection still matters.

I also fixed it for you

Hey, I'm only talking about the current team now, which is really quite unique offensively for a JB team in terms of its reliance on the three. Next year's team will look and play nothing like this one, but may very well struggle to score at times for different reasons.

 

[Brooky03]

If that is what you think. The FACT is there are a lot of guys shooting over 40%. So how can 37.5% be good when there are many who do better? That is just silly. In today's game 37.5% is average for a SG.

That's not just what I think. That's what practically everybody thinks.

 

[CaptainJ]

Can't we put the bitter Cooney debate aside for a few more hours and rally around the Cuse, similar to the kid at the end of American History X quoting Abe Lincoln about our better angels?

 

[OttoMets]

If that is what you think. The FACT is there are a lot of guys shooting over 40%. So how can 37.5% be good when there are many who do better? That is just silly. In today's game 37.5% is average for a SG.

That'd be historically excellent for SU. Top-ten, I think (not going to look it up now).

 

[OttoMets]

That'd be historically excellent for SU. Top-ten, I think (not going to look it up now).

I lied, had to look it up. (By the way, terrific job as always by SU - apparently they don't want to publish SU's career leaders and record-holders on their website anymore. Super. Thanks, guys.)

It's true, within the context of Syracuse's history, 37.5% from three is excellent. In 30 years of the shot, with however many players we've had, only 15 guys have even topped 35% for their career (minimum 100 attempts; sorry, Tyler Ennis). From orangehoops.org, those who had strong careers but missed the 37.5% cut-off:

15. http://www.orangehoops.org/GMcNamara.htm 35.4% (maximum of 36.3 minutes per game)
14. http://www.orangehoops.org/DNichols.htm 35.8% (maximum of 34.8 minutes per game)
13. http://www.orangehoops.org/TBurgan.htm 35.9% (maximum of 36.7 minutes per game)
12. http://www.orangehoops.org/AJardine.htm 36.4% (maximum of 32 minutes per game)
11. http://www.orangehoops.org/SMcCorkle.htm 36.5% (career sub; never more than 16.7 minutes per)
9. http://www.orangehoops.org/MHopkins.htm 37.0% ( maximum of 28.2 minutes per game)
9. http://www.orangehoops.org/JSoutherland.htm 37.0% (infrequent starter, never more than 29.5 minutes per)
8. http://www.orangehoops.org/ARautins.htm 37.4% (maximum of 32.5 minutes per)

And the super seven who topped 37.5% for their careers (better than those "average" guys like Rautins):
6. http://www.orangehoops.org/EDevendorf.htm 37.8% (maximum of 33.9 minutes per)
6. http://www.orangehoops.org/PShumpert.htm 37.8% (maximum of 36.9 minutes per)
5. http://www.orangehoops.org/MookieJones.htm 39.7% (career bench-warmer)
4. http://www.orangehoops.org/MJanulis.htm 39.9% (maximum of 32.5 minutes per)
3. http://www.orangehoops.org/WJohnson.htm 41.5% (35 minutes per)
2. http://www.orangehoops.org/MRoe.htm 43.3% (maximum of 25.8 minutes per)
1. http://www.orangehoops.org/GMonroe.htm 43.9% (31 minutes per)


To take this in a different direction, I've also added players' minutes. That Cooney plays the minutes he does is especially strange when considered in the context of the above list: here we've got guys who are actually productive three-point shooters, some of whom played on great teams but many of whom played with talent comparable to what Cooney's working with, most of whom were serviceably well-rounded on offense (even Marius Janulis managed to shoot better than 40% from the field), and all of whom were deemed less important to keep on the court than Cooney has been in recent seasons (perhaps college kids did get tired in those days?).

I don't know why he's moved in this direction, but Boeheim has gotten more extreme in his treatment of starters' minutes in the twilight of his career. No one can prove this, but the numbers suggest that this has had a detrimental effect on the productivity of the team.

 

[TinyManInside]

These trends have been pointed out before. When he was around 38% from 3 earlier in the year I mentioned "well, he hasn't hit Feb/March when he traditionally tanks" and of course was shot down for daring to suggest that this year would be similar to past years. This is not rocket science: there is a clear, obvious, observable trend. Anyone who thought he was going to shoot 40% through Feb and March hasn't been paying attention. As to the cause, it's probably a variety of factors, including better competition later in the year, too many minutes resulting in dead legs, and well, he's just not a great shooter because he has mechanical flaws in terms of balance and shot setup. I applaud his effort, dedication, and loyalty to the school, but it would be really nice to have a more consistent shooting guard in the future.

 

[EnnisEnvy]

My take on Cooney is this:
-The very first thing you need to be is athletic and be able to combine that with your skill in basketball. Cooney looks to be ripped and has a solid build but not once in his career has he used his strength or upper body to his advantage offensively. He never has driven to the hoop, and used his body to finish or create an open look. He doesn't know how to. For instance, Triche had the upper body strength and excelled at absorbing contact and finishing. Cooney just isn't good enough to do that.

-Secondly, Cooney has zero pull-up game. Negative. He's not good nor athletic enough to shoot off the dribble and go straight up and down. He's always fading or leaning off balance which is the reason why he makes 1 out of 10 when he shoots a mid-range shot

-Thirdly, his shot is not fluent nor natural. You watch great shooters like Steph and Damian Lillard, or even Buddy Hield. They shoot and it looks effortless. Cooney shot is a struggle and his rotation is inconsistent with his shot. JJ Redick had a podcast with Kyle Korver and they were talking about how fascinating it is that Damian Lillard, who they both think they are stronger than, can effortlessly shoot 30 footers and not change his shot. Some shooters are just natural, Cooney isn't. His shot is way too mechanical.

-Fourth, he can't dribble with a purpose. He has no feel on how to break a man down and create his own shot. You have to have moves or counters if you are going to be guarded so tightly. He possesses none. JJ Redick built up a lethal stepback and floater in college. TC hasn't made a step back all year it seems like. He virtually has nothing other than a spot up 3 shot- yet he really is a sub 30% shooter at that. It's the reason why his shooting throughout his career has been so poor. He just simply doesn't have enough skill or athleticism to produce at an effective rate at this level of play. Which is fine, 99% of people don't.

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This is pretty much what I've said for a long time. He doesn't appear to have improved his game since he's been here. I don't think it is due to lack of trying but maybe he concentrated too much on his 3 ball instead of developing those other parts of his game such as the stop and pop, finishing at the rim, ball handling, etc.

He isn't quite quick enough or skilled enough to create his own shot. I mentioned this awhile ago about how everything he does looks so exhausting, not easy like an athlete should.

He's one of the hardest working players ever for SU. I wish his career would have been better for him.

 

[tbonezone]

the issue at the shooting guard position should have been addressed by the coaching staff at some point two years ago . i'm not blaming trevor cooney. he plays his best and gives 100 % and bleeds orange but the simple fact is he plays too many minutes. more than most players or humans could withstand. i pray we still make th tourney and i pray trevor rains down 9/ 15 deep. cuz that's our best chance of winning. but we've simply asked too much from #10. this loss ain't on him.