An old bird told me

[Ottoble]

 

[RF2044]

You can be a genius in the booth but choke when you're wearing the headset on the sideline. FHCSS seems like a good football coach, but not cut out for game management.

He's not the only one. There are countless examples of coaches at both the collegiate and NFL level who are outstanding position coaches and / or coordinators who just don't have the chops to be head coaches. Doesn't make them "bad" coaches overall, just "bad" head coaches.

 

[RF2044]

What success did Gerg have at the college level?

He won in the pros not in college and quite frankly that doesn't always translate either way. Does that mean that Saban is a "shitty coach" because he doesn't have the super bowl rings that Gerg does?

What bnoro said was that they are both "shitty coaches" which is a pretty broad statement an frankly not true.

No, because Saban has a tremendous track record of success at Michigan State, LSU, and now Alabama. He's won multiple national championships AS A HEAD COACH. That transcends a two year stint where he flopped as an NFL coach.

I think it could be legitimately suggested that he wasn't that good of an NFL head coach. Not much of a track record to evaluate, since he only lasted two years, but he didn't do anything noteworthy at that level.

But as a college head coach? He's been dominant.

I doubt anybody would launch into a discussion of Saban's coaching acumen by making the argument that his accomplishments / head coaching acumen are lessened because of his NFL stint.

 

[CuseOnly]

No, because Saban has a tremendous track record of success at Michigan State, LSU, and now Alabama. He's won multiple national championships AS A HEAD COACH. That transcends a two year stint where he flopped as an NFL coach.

I think it could be legitimately suggested that he wasn't that good of an NFL head coach. Not much of a track record to evaluate, since he only lasted two years, but he didn't do anything noteworthy at that level.

But as a college head coach? He's been dominant.

I doubt anybody would launch into a discussion of Saban's coaching acumen by making the argument that his accomplishments / head coaching acumen are lessened because of his NFL stint.

You must have missed the part about Success at different levels not translating.

Totally missed the point.

Gerg - NFL Success + No College Success as a HC = Shitty coach
Shafer - No college sucees as a HC + Success as a coordinator and Position coach = Shitty coach

By the logic above, nobody that has had success in either the NFL as a coach or in College as a HC = Shitty coach.

Using that Logic, Saban must be a shitty coach which pretty much = everybody is a shitty coach.

Failed logic.

 

[bnoro]

Whatever, you said shitty coach, not shitty head coach. Two entirely different statements and meanings.

Calling a guy a shitty coacha after a 20+ years of coaching based on 3 as a first time head coach is plainly wrong.

I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't want your entire career at whatever you do defined by your worst 3 years. Especially when those 3 years are at a particular position you have never held before. You shouldn't do the same to others.

you apparently lack the ability to take context from my original post, which I have referenced multiple times. Your whole argument here is a straw man and there's no reason to keep it going. You're arguing context at this point, which is preposterous.

 

[RF2044]

You must have missed the part about Success at different levels not translating.

Totally missed the point.

Gerg - NFL Success + No College Success as a HC = Shitty coach
Shafer - No college sucees as a HC + Success as a coordinator and Position coach = Shitty coach

By the logic above, nobody that has had success in either the NFL as a coach or in College as a HC = Shitty coach.

Using that Logic, Saban must be a shitty coach which pretty much = everybody is a shitty coach.

Failed logic.

My only comment is that there is a difference between being a coach [in the general sense of the word], a coordinator, a position coach, or a head coach.

I don't think it can be disputed that GRob was a lousy head coach, by every metric / evaluative criteria imaginable. That doesn't mean that he can't coach or that he isn't a good coordinator. But as with every profession, people tend to get promoted to their level of incompetence [i.e., the peter principle]. That's where Robinson found himself.

No different than literally hundreds of other coaches who are good at their jobs, but fail when they get promoted and are suddenly over their heads. A guy like Romeo Cronnel is a perfect example. Tremendous defensive coordinator. Well liked. Obviously, a great coach [in the general sense]--which is why he continues to get jobs even after a couple of failed stints as an NFL head coach.

Him flopping as a HC doesn't mean he's a "bad" coach, it just means that he isn't a HEAD coach, and a guy who's better suited for a DC role.

The logic you list above doesn't apply to Saban, because even though he was mediocre at the NFL level, he's had an incredible track record as a head coach at numerous other stops, before and since he made the jump the pros. The same can't be said about either Shafer or GRob. Sure, they had solid accomplishments AS DEFENSIVE COORDINATORS, but certainly not as head coaches. When they got those opportunities, they failed to deliver--hence, why they are viewed as poor head coaches.

Doesn't mean that they can't thrive as coordinators, or as position coaches, nor is it a reflection on their overall general coaching acumen. Being a head coach brings a lot of additional diversified responsibilities that are beyond many in the profession, who lack the chops for it.

 

[CousCuse]

Where were Shafers' terrible game management decisions in 2013 when we won many close games and a BOWL game. No where . You guys wanted him fired and sided with Bud and his hitmen and got him fired . Bravo.

 

[Cusester]

Oh my. This thread just keeps getting worse and worse. I appreciate the original post KC, but it's time to lock it up.

 

[money3189]

yeah Im not sure where we are going with this thread

 

[FAL]

 

[dollarbill44]

Holy hijack Batman.

 

[FAL]

Holy hijack Batman.

This thread was abut to self-destruct anyway, so What?:noidea:

 

[SUfaninAZ]

Delete the hijacked posts... that simple.

 

[TheCusian]

Where were Shafers' terrible game management decisions in 2013 when we won many close games and a BOWL game. No where . You guys wanted him fired and sided with Bud and his hitmen and got him fired . Bravo.

Not really. He didn't get enough wins. There was a case to be made mid-way through last season, but there was enough (clock management, bad O for the third year, not enough marquee wins, etc) AND a new AD - that it was time to move on. I rallied for him for a long time and was proud of the man he was - just not the performance on the field.

EDIT: did not mean to keep this going... Go ahead and shut er down

 

[RMH44]

Not really. He didn't get enough wins. There was a case to be made mid-way through last season, but there was enough (clock management, bad O for the third year, not enough marquee wins, etc) AND a new AD - that it was time to move on. I rallied for him for a long time and was proud of the man he was - just not the performance on the field.

EDIT: did not mean to keep this going... Go ahead and shut er down

Couldn't agree more. Lock this mess.