Class of 2022 Analysis/Videos of Recruiting Targets

[IthacaMatt]

I think it will be either Taylor or Bunch, as JB will be looking for a shooter. No way after playing four three point guys last year he wants only two out there.

I see the lineup as:

Mintz
Girard
Williams
Taylor/Bunch
Edwards

Torrence
Hima
1.5 of Taylor/Bunch/Brown/JBA/Carey

I think Copeland, JBA and Carey are out of the rotation by ACC play, asking with whomever loses out among Brown, Taylor and Bunch.

So many wild cards, though.

I see your point about the extra shooter, but remember when we had all that offense in 2017, with Andrew White, John Gillon, Tyler Lydon, freshman Tyus Battle and Taurean Thompson off the bench?

That team could score like crazy, but the defense didn't come together until they had already ruined the season with awful out of conference losses, something like 8-5, if memory serves. Sounds familiar, right?

Then in 2018, he goes with size and defense, and literally only has 3 guys on the entire team who can score more than 5 points a game.

I think that when the chips are down, he's going to stick with the 2-3 zone, maybe some 1-3-1 like he did last year, to take away the offensive entry pass to the foul line to collapse the zone.

We aren't going to see any man-to-man, 3 guard offense, unless one of those guards is Taylor at the , and frankly, he seems too soft on defense to see any real time this year.

He says these things about playing man for the benefit of the players, to get some buy-in. Remember when he said the same thing to Jonny Flynn and Paul Harris? How much man did those teams play, again?

That's why I'm leaning Maliq Brown; because he's the Roberson for this team, he's got some nasty, he's physical. Remember, Jesse is not. He's an athletic freak, but he needs an enforcer next to him, to take some of the fouls for him. He needs his own Terrence Roberts, or his version of Rick Jackson alongside him.

Just like Maurice Lucas at PF allowed Bill Walton to be transcendant for a season and half in Portland, before he ruined his feet.

 

[Niastri]

I see your point about the extra shooter, but remember when we had all that offense in 2017, with Andrew White, John Gillon, Tyler Lydon, freshman Tyus Battle and Taurean Thompson off the bench?

That team could score like crazy, but the defense didn't come together until they had already ruined the season with awful out of conference losses, something like 8-5, if memory serves. Sounds familiar, right?

Then in 2018, he goes with size and defense, and literally only has 3 guys on the entire team who can score more than 5 points a game.

I think that when the chips are down, he's going to stick with the 2-3 zone, maybe some 1-3-1 like he did last year, to take away the offensive entry pass to the foul line to collapse the zone.

We aren't going to see any man-to-man, 3 guard offense, unless one of those guards is Taylor at the , and frankly, he seems too soft on defense to see any real time this year.

He says these things about playing man for the benefit of the players, to get some buy-in. Remember when he said the same thing to Jonny Flynn and Paul Harris? How much man did those teams play, again?

That's why I'm leaning Maliq Brown; because he's the Roberson for this team, he's got some nasty, he's physical. Remember, Jesse is not. He's an athletic freak, but he needs an enforcer next to him, to take some of the fouls for him. He needs his own Terrence Roberts, or his version of Rick Jackson alongside him.

Just like Maurice Lucas at PF allowed Bill Walton to be transcendant for a season and half in Portland, before he ruined his feet.

Great points. You may have convinced me... I think in the end type of player is going to matter less than overall effectiveness, whichever player is most ready to contribute.

 

[baggerbob]

I see your point about the extra shooter, but remember when we had all that offense in 2017, with Andrew White, John Gillon, Tyler Lydon, freshman Tyus Battle and Taurean Thompson off the bench?

That team could score like crazy, but the defense didn't come together until they had already ruined the season with awful out of conference losses, something like 8-5, if memory serves. Sounds familiar, right?

Then in 2018, he goes with size and defense, and literally only has 3 guys on the entire team who can score more than 5 points a game.

I think that when the chips are down, he's going to stick with the 2-3 zone, maybe some 1-3-1 like he did last year, to take away the offensive entry pass to the foul line to collapse the zone.

We aren't going to see any man-to-man, 3 guard offense, unless one of those guards is Taylor at the , and frankly, he seems too soft on defense to see any real time this year.

He says these things about playing man for the benefit of the players, to get some buy-in. Remember when he said the same thing to Jonny Flynn and Paul Harris? How much man did those teams play, again?

That's why I'm leaning Maliq Brown; because he's the Roberson for this team, he's got some nasty, he's physical. Remember, Jesse is not. He's an athletic freak, but he needs an enforcer next to him, to take some of the fouls for him. He needs his own Terrence Roberts, or his version of Rick Jackson alongside him.

Just like Maurice Lucas at PF allowed Bill Walton to be transcendant for a season and half in Portland, before he ruined his feet.

And the 1986-87 had 1 shooter Monroe, but a good defense, speed, and ran the floor creating easy baskets. And they played man to man, pressed, trapped. They were athletic, but not great shooters.

 

[Cuse009]

I see your point about the extra shooter, but remember when we had all that offense in 2017, with Andrew White, John Gillon, Tyler Lydon, freshman Tyus Battle and Taurean Thompson off the bench?

That team could score like crazy, but the defense didn't come together until they had already ruined the season with awful out of conference losses, something like 8-5, if memory serves. Sounds familiar, right?

Then in 2018, he goes with size and defense, and literally only has 3 guys on the entire team who can score more than 5 points a game.

I think that when the chips are down, he's going to stick with the 2-3 zone, maybe some 1-3-1 like he did last year, to take away the offensive entry pass to the foul line to collapse the zone.

We aren't going to see any man-to-man, 3 guard offense, unless one of those guards is Taylor at the , and frankly, he seems too soft on defense to see any real time this year.

He says these things about playing man for the benefit of the players, to get some buy-in. Remember when he said the same thing to Jonny Flynn and Paul Harris? How much man did those teams play, again?

That's why I'm leaning Maliq Brown; because he's the Roberson for this team, he's got some nasty, he's physical. Remember, Jesse is not. He's an athletic freak, but he needs an enforcer next to him, to take some of the fouls for him. He needs his own Terrence Roberts, or his version of Rick Jackson alongside him.

Just like Maurice Lucas at PF allowed Bill Walton to be transcendant for a season and half in Portland, before he ruined his feet.

Agree with all that, but 1 of the main reasons 2017 was bad was bc JB played .Howard over Gillon and piled on the losses before he figured it out. Similar to how he dealt with Kadary. And similar to last season with Sy. The issue will be that JB will still play Bunch over M.Brown even if he's good. JB will stick to Mintz/Sy, JG, Bunch, Benny, Jesse with JT subbing in for Bunch. Curious if JB gives Ajak min subbing at the 4 in the first few games eating M.Brown's min?
Would luv to see Sy, JG3, Mintz on the court at the same time and all play 30min.

 

[20plus]

I think it will be either Taylor or Bunch, as JB will be looking for a shooter. No way after playing four three point guys last year he wants only two out there.

I see the lineup as:

Mintz
Girard
Williams
Taylor/Bunch
Edwards

Torrence
Hima
1.5 of Taylor/Bunch/Brown/JBA/Carey

I think Copeland, JBA and Carey are out of the rotation by ACC play, asking with whomever loses out among Brown, Taylor and Bunch.

So many wild cards, though.

This is god stuff

 

[Orangezoo]

This is god stuff

The comments around Brown defending any position, I believe from the recent Symir interview shouldn’t be dismissed too quickly. If our forwards aren't going to be scoring a lot we have to get solid defending.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The comments around Brown defending any position, I believe from the recent Symir interview shouldn’t be dismissed too quickly. If our forwards aren't going to be scoring a lot we have to get solid defending.

If he doesn't make the rotation, I just don't see where the rebounds are going to come from. I don't think Boeheim is going to have any choice.

 

[Orangezoo]

If he doesn't make the rotation, I just don't see where the rebounds are going to come from. I don't think Boeheim is going to have any choice.

We need a lot of " how did the recruiting services miss on these great prospects" kind of luck this year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We need a lot of " how did the recruiting services miss on these great prospects" kind of luck this year.

I think Maliq Brown and Peter Carey are those kids in this class. It might take a year, but I think they are both going to be good players.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think Maliq Brown and Peter Carey are those kids in this class. It might take a year, but I think they are both going to be good players.

In normal circumstances "it will take a year is no big deal". We don't have those luxuries anymore unless we manage to secure keeping a talent like Mintz to return and Jesse to use the extra year...

 

[IthacaMatt]

In normal circumstances "it will take a year is no big deal". We don't have those luxuries anymore unless we manage to secure keeping a talent like Mintz to return and Jesse to use the extra year...

Well, there's only so many balls to go around. Judah, Joe and Jesse will get most of the offensive touches.

Then you see if Benny breaks out, or anybody else.

Maybe the VA kid, Justin Taylor, who's the shooter, if he can defend at the bottom of the zone. Maybe it's Copeland, who plays like Josh Pace. Or maybe Brown is another Tyler Roberson, or Chris Bunch is another Kris Joseph or a Mookie Jones. I could see Symir being kind of like Gene Waldron at guard, getting us down the floor and into the offense.

This team so obviously would be better off playing man-to-man, but I just don't see him being serious about it, after not really playing much man since 1995-96 when the Zone took a limited team with one true star to the Final.

Peter Carey could be a poor man's version of that kid we lost to Duke. Who can't use an athletic guy who can score inside, and is fluid and can handle the ball very well for a big man? I think Munir is pretty clearly going to be our rim-protector / enforcer back-up center. There might be 5 minutes or so for Carey to show us what he can do.

I think that's the most important thing with this team. We are unproven in so many places, that you may as well play them all for a month or two, and let them sort it out on the court - but in GAMES, not in practices. You don't really learn squat about a player without seeing them in a pressure situation in a live game, where the other people REALLY want to beat you.

 

[Orangezoo]

Well, there's only so many balls to go around. Judah, Joe and Jesse will get most of the offensive touches.

Then you see if Benny breaks out, or anybody else.

Maybe the VA kid, Justin Taylor, who's the shooter, if he can defend at the bottom of the zone. Maybe it's Copeland, who plays like Josh Pace. Or maybe Brown is another Tyler Roberson, or Chris Bunch is another Kris Joseph or a Mookie Jones. I could see Symir being kind of like Gene Waldron at guard, getting us down the floor and into the offense.

This team so obviously would be better off playing man-to-man, but I just don't see him being serious about it, after not really playing much man since 1995-96 when the Zone took a limited team with one true star to the Final.

Peter Carey could be a poor man's version of that kid we lost to Duke. Who can't use an athletic guy who can score inside, and is fluid and can handle the ball very well for a big man? I think Munir is pretty clearly going to be our rim-protector / enforcer back-up center. There might be 5 minutes or so for Carey to show us what he can do.

I think that's the most important thing with this team. We are unproven in so many places, that you may as well play them all for a month or two, and let them sort it out on the court - but in GAMES, not in practices. You don't really learn squat about a player without seeing them in a pressure situation in a live game, where the other people REALLY want to beat you.

Yeah I mean I'm not saying limit the minutes and opportunities at all. All I'm saying is if we have a top defender hounding Joe, two forwards shading Jesse and Judah gets the Freshman "prove it" - we have to get guys who do more than play a role- they will have to step up and score some games. They also will have to be the guys that form a foundation like Joe Jesse and Judah because we are striking out in 2023. Role players with developmental guys paired with two more developmental guys is where you start looking like GT and BC in the ACC in a hurry. So we need some real juice and momentum this year to pull a late stud or bigtime portal guy or find some way to talk guys likw Jesse and Judah into coming back and you run a Quadir Judah backcourt for instance...

 

[Niastri]

Yeah I mean I'm not saying limit the minutes and opportunities at all. All I'm saying is if we have a top defender hounding Joe, two forwards shading Jesse and Judah gets the Freshman "prove it" - we have to get guys who do more than play a role- they will have to step up and score some games. They also will have to be the guys that form a foundation like Joe Jesse and Judah because we are striking out in 2023. Role players with developmental guys paired with two more developmental guys is where you start looking like GT and BC in the ACC in a hurry. So we need some real juice and momentum this year to pull a late stud or bigtime portal guy or find some way to talk guys likw Jesse and Judah into coming back and you run a Quadir Judah backcourt for instance...

If teams face guard Girard, triple team Edwards and let Mintz "prove it," the other guys' role will be to hit wide open shots. The whole season will hinge upon these role players performing their roles.

This fact is why everyone believes Taylor and Bunch are in competition to win the other forward spot, and why some people believe Williams may not be secure as the other starter. JB likes shooting and defense more than rebounding. If the other two guys can shoot better than Williams and defend/rebound enough... Williams may become the third forward or only a token starter after the first third of the season.

The fact that nobody in the know is whispering this may already be coming true is, to me, a good sign of Williams overall progress.

Rothstein prediction about the forward rotation may be informed by actual sources besides this board.

 

[Orangezoo]

If teams face guard Girard, triple team Edwards and let Mintz "prove it," the other guys' role will be to hit wide open shots. The whole season will hinge upon these role players performing their roles.

This fact is why everyone believes Taylor and Bunch are in competition to win the other forward spot, and why some people believe Williams may not be secure as the other starter. JB likes shooting and defense more than rebounding. If the other two guys can shoot better than Williams and defend/rebound enough... Williams may become the third forward or only a token starter after the first third of the season.

The fact that nobody in the know is whispering this may already be coming true is, to me, a good sign of Williams overall progress.

Rothstein prediction about the forward rotation may be informed by actual sources besides this board.

About as idealist as you can get for sure. This is a long list of things that must happen and that tends to be a thread the needle scenario. We need to thread that needle though. And filling their roles is nice and all but we will need more than that as we look to the future and the ceiling this year. They could fill their role, as non heralded freshmen and we win 19 games. That isn't going to cut it.

 

[Sherman20]

Well, there's only so many balls to go around. Judah, Joe and Jesse will get most of the offensive touches.

Then you see if Benny breaks out, or anybody else.

Maybe the VA kid, Justin Taylor, who's the shooter, if he can defend at the bottom of the zone. Maybe it's Copeland, who plays like Josh Pace. Or maybe Brown is another Tyler Roberson, or Chris Bunch is another Kris Joseph or a Mookie Jones. I could see Symir being kind of like Gene Waldron at guard, getting us down the floor and into the offense.

This team so obviously would be better off playing man-to-man, but I just don't see him being serious about it, after not really playing much man since 1995-96 when the Zone took a limited team with one true star to the Final.

Peter Carey could be a poor man's version of that kid we lost to Duke. Who can't use an athletic guy who can score inside, and is fluid and can handle the ball very well for a big man? I think Munir is pretty clearly going to be our rim-protector / enforcer back-up center. There might be 5 minutes or so for Carey to show us what he can do.

I think that's the most important thing with this team. We are unproven in so many places, that you may as well play them all for a month or two, and let them sort it out on the court - but in GAMES, not in practices. You don't really learn squat about a player without seeing them in a pressure situation in a live game, where the other people REALLY want to beat you.

I think we’ll have Benny at PF with Maliq Brown as his backup. And Bunch and Taylor splitting time at SF. It’s still insane to me that we never went after an experienced, starter-level transfer forward.

 

[Niastri]

About as idealist as you can get for sure. This is a long list of things that must happen and that tends to be a thread the needle scenario. We need to thread that needle though. And filling their roles is nice and all but we will need more than that as we look to the future and the ceiling this year. They could fill their role, as non heralded freshmen and we win 19 games. That isn't going to cut it.

I think threading the needle would be:

Girard averaging 20 on 15 shots, not 25

Mintz going for 15 and 6 penetrating effortlessly

Edwards having an efficient 18 and 11 season

Williams looking like the guy we recruited

Bunch/Taylor combining for 15 and 10 out of the other forward spot, including good rebounding/defense when Williams is resting

Torrence gets 20mpg and averages 8 and 6 because his reworked shot works this time.

The 7.5 player (Hima gets spot minutes) rotation stays healthy and success creates great chemistry.

We average 95 and allow 70 on our way to the ACC regular season and tournament championships and then roll through two blowout wins in the Final Four.

Everybody has so much fun they decide to stay for another year to try to repeat.

After the season, 5 top 10 recruits decide to commit, because they want some of the fun too.

/End ridiculous fantasy

Actually, I think my earlier thoughts are far from "threading the needle" but rather an optimistic end of realistic scenario.

It seems likely that Girard, Edwards and Mintz are going to get a lot of attention because of their pedigree and experience... We agree on that. The other guys in the rotation only need to be effective in their roles, defense, rebounding, hitting open shots, for us to have a good season.

If Girard, Edwards and/or Mintz are terrible or overwhelmed by the extra responsibility, this season could be terrible. But I think that unlikely.

I think the other guys taking on some load early is more likely, and that we will have a decent team, one that could win some games late in the season. Maybe they'll even be able to go on a run.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think threading the needle would be:

Girard averaging 20 on 15 shots, not 25

Mintz going for 15 and 6 penetrating effortlessly

Edwards having an efficient 18 and 11 season

Williams looking like the guy we recruited

Bunch/Taylor combining for 15 and 10 out of the other forward spot, including good rebounding/defense when Williams is resting

Torrence gets 20mpg and averages 8 and 6 because his reworked shot works this time.

The 7.5 player (Hima gets spot minutes) rotation stays healthy and success creates great chemistry.

We average 95 and allow 70 on our way to the ACC regular season and tournament championships and then roll through two blowout wins in the Final Four.

Everybody has so much fun they decide to stay for another year to try to repeat.

After the season, 5 top 10 recruits decide to commit, because they want some of the fun too.

/End ridiculous fantasy

Actually, I think my earlier thoughts are far from "threading the needle" but rather an optimistic end of realistic scenario.

It seems likely that Girard, Edwards and Mintz are going to get a lot of attention because of their pedigree and experience... We are on that. The other guys in the rotation only need to be effective in their roles, defense, rebounding, hitting open shots, for us to have a good season.

If Girard, Edwards and/or Mintz are terrible or overwhelmed by the extra responsibility, this season could be terrible. But I think that unlikely.

I think the other guys taking on some load early is more likely, and that we will have a decent team, one that could win some games late in the season. Maybe they'll even be able to go on a run.

I'm not one to turn down a hopeful scenario. I will split the difference with you on what is a possible scenario vs what is threading the needle