Anyone else having a hard time getting into this?

[DoctorBombay]

No matter the sport, I just find it very difficult to watch a team that's defensively challenged. Given a choice between a good offense vs a good defense, I identify w/ the defense all the time. Even JB's brick-laying squads still won 20 games, and made Sweet 16's. They weren't always pleasant to watch, but an ugly win is always better than some pretty loss...and we've had plenty of those lately.
I prefer not to "outscore" teams 95-94...in 2OTs, or fight back into a game and lose because we can't get a key stop, or make a free throw. That gets old, very quickly- and unfortunately has become the norm starting w/ the turnstile defenses of "Daddy Ball".
I'll always support the Orange and wear my colors on game day, I'm just not as obsessed as I used to be.

 

[JonB]

First of all, I’ll say that I appreciate this board. We have the best fans in the nation, and we all know it! I think this team is going to get better, they have some good pieces, don’t get too down yourselves, I think this team is going to win some games. I like the fact that they can rebound the ball, I can’t remember a freshman that got 13 rebounds, maybe Quincy G, or O’Shea Brissett? Brighter times are coming. Be patient. This too, shall pass.

 

[JonB]

Can't root against Dry Rub, Mr Energy.

Feed the big Lamp.

 

[phillydad]

I'll admit that winning cures a lot of this, but as of now, I am kind of forcing myself to pay attention to these games. Having access on my phone makes it easier to multitask, thank goodness, because otherwise I'd probably just check the scores later. I don't have any connection to any of these players. JJ is the only one I find "relatable" and he is so up and down. Bell with his baggage feels like he should have moved on with last year's group. Everyone else is a "who?"

And, the kicker, my son last night asks me, "Dad was Syracuse ever any good?" He's 10 years old. He wasn't even born when the cuse had their last pretty good team.

I am always eagerly looking forward to the next SU men's basketball and football games. They are the only two teams that I can say that at this stage of my life.
LGO!!

 

[CuseCPT]

Kadary played plenty. At Seton Hall, he barely played more as a Soohomore. And Seton Hall wasn’t a very good team either. To say Boeheim stubbornly refused to play him is a retelling of history.

Even former players that were normally Boeheim loyalists were calling it out. To say JB didn't stubbornly refuse to play him is gaslighting.

 

[two3zone]

Even former players that were normally Boeheim loyalists were calling it out. To say JB didn't stubbornly refuse to play him is gaslighting.

His mpg us horribly skewed. Someone had to play Buddy's 40 minutes when he had covid, same with Joe.

We were BEGGING Kadary to play even more than he did down the stretch and tournaments. At least anyone with a brain was.

 

[tptcuse]

And I don’t think people know how far this program is behind in the smallest of things in this day and age. It all matters with tickets and donations and everything and it’s tough that people don’t realize how much money SU actually needs to be in the top echelon of programs with necessities. You need a fortune to compete now. But it always seems like we are always behind compared to everyone else

Isn't this why you believe the Kiyan announcement is so big?

 

[Brooky03]

Even former players that were normally Boeheim loyalists were calling it out. To say JB didn't stubbornly refuse to play him is gaslighting.

Oh well if a couple former players said it it must be true. Because we know they must be basketball experts since they played basketball real good.

Good point.

 

[MikeSU02]

Kadary played plenty. At Seton Hall, he barely played more as a Soohomore. And Seton Hall wasn’t a very good team either. To say Boeheim stubbornly refused to play him is a retelling of history.

Played plenty?

This is from March 2021:
Let's just get this over with:

Category: Kadary / Joe
PER: 18.4 / 13.6
TS%: .527 / .484
eFG%: .478 / .453
WS/40: .128 / .078
OBPM: 1.7 / 0.8
DBPM: 4.6 / 1.5
BPM: 6.2 / 2.3

More traditional shooting percentage stats:
FG%: .453 / .357
2PT%: .475 / .389
3PT%: .333 / .333

SHOOTING? OVERALL? DEFENSE? COOKING PANCAKES?

What is the question, here. Honestly, the only thing that Joe is better at him than is being from Glens Falls as far as I can tell.

Kadary Richmond in the transfer portal

What was Kadary shooting from November-January? 49.3% from the field. 37-75. Pretty pretty good

syracusefan.com

Again, not going to let people retcon this story. Especially when I had to deal with it this summer for the current roster.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Just numb after this past decade.

 

[Brooky03]

Played plenty?

This is from March 2021:
Let's just get this over with:

Category: Kadary / Joe
PER: 18.4 / 13.6
TS%: .527 / .484
eFG%: .478 / .453
WS/40: .128 / .078
OBPM: 1.7 / 0.8
DBPM: 4.6 / 1.5
BPM: 6.2 / 2.3

More traditional shooting percentage stats:
FG%: .453 / .357
2PT%: .475 / .389
3PT%: .333 / .333

SHOOTING? OVERALL? DEFENSE? COOKING PANCAKES?

What is the question, here. Honestly, the only thing that Joe is better at him than is being from Glens Falls as far as I can tell.

Kadary Richmond in the transfer portal

What was Kadary shooting from November-January? 49.3% from the field. 37-75. Pretty pretty good

syracusefan.com

Again, not going to let people retcon this story. Especially when I had to deal with it this summer for the current roster.

The stats argument happened that season. I was up to my neck in the stats.

Assist rate: Virtually no difference (5 percentage points in KR’s favor; a fraction of an assist)
Turnover rate: Virtually no difference (6 percentage points in Joe’s favor; a fraction of a turnover)
Shooting: KR 1.3 points per shot. Joe 1.1 Miniscule difference (about a point per game if the minutes were switched, at the rate they shot)
Steals: No difference.

Joe was clearly the better positional defender in the zone for anybody who watched the games (not that he was good). Kadary was the better ‘highlight play’ defender who would see guards blow by him routinely, more often than ‘fat and slow’ Joe.

Kadary was a Freshman playing 20 minutes per game (17 or 18 when you take out the early season games he had to play). Joe was a Sophomore playing 27. That’s a pretty standard minutes split for the difference in seniority, especially when the Freshman wasn’t separating himself by any significant measure in productivity.

Joe’s shooting slumped that year, no doubt, but the offensive spacing was drastically better with Joe on the court. Joe’s 3pt% was affected by the way teams extended their defense on him. Kadary’s 3pt% was in spite of teams leaving him open.

Kadary dribbled better but didn’t use it to create for others at that point in his career.

Joe played 30% more than Kadary. That’s far from unfair.

The quiet part we can’t say out loud because people will cry foul despite it very much being the reality: Joe was a short chubby white kid and Kadary was a tall athletic black kid. Basketball fans are going to prefer the tall athletic black guy by default, so when their production is close, he’s going to seem like the clear and obvious better option in the face of other factors.

 

[DoctorBombay]

The stats argument happened that season. I was up to my neck in the stats.

Assist rate: Virtually no difference (5 percentage points in KR’s favor; a fraction of an assist)
Turnover rate: Virtually no difference (6 percentage points in Joe’s favor; a fraction of a turnover)
Shooting: KR 1.3 points per shot. Joe 1.1 Miniscule difference (about a point per game if the minutes were switched, at the rate they shot)
Steals: No difference.

Joe was clearly the better positional defender in the zone for anybody who watched the games (not that he was good). Kadary was the better ‘highlight play’ defender who would see guards blow by him routinely, more often than ‘fat and slow’ Joe.

Kadary was a Freshman playing 20 minutes per game (17 or 18 when you take out the early season games he had to play). Joe was a Sophomore playing 27. That’s a pretty standard minutes split for the difference in seniority, especially when the Freshman wasn’t separating himself by any significant measure in productivity.

Joe’s shooting slumped that year, no doubt, but the offensive spacing was drastically better with Joe on the court. Joe’s 3pt% was affected by the way teams extended their defense on him. Kadary’s 3pt% was in spite of teams leaving him open.

Kadary dribbled better but didn’t use it to create for others at that point in his career.

Joe played 30% more than Kadary. That’s far from unfair.

The quiet part we can’t say out loud because people will cry foul despite it very much being the reality: Joe was a short chubby white kid and Kadary was a tall athletic black kid. Basketball fans are going to prefer the tall athletic black guy by default, so when their production is close, he’s going to seem like the clear and obvious better option in the face of other factors.

Can't believe you're willing to die on this hill...but have at it.
Even as a freshman, Kadary was worthy of more PT, and given time he would've been the better player, especially on defense, than Joe. They had differing skill sets & we needed a PG and JG3 wasn't it, despite JB trying to force it down the teams throat.
JB DID stubbornly refuse to play the kid who gave us a better shot on defense alone, because Buddy HAD to play his 37 minutes, and JG3 provided "spacing" on offense. It was belligerent and unnecessary- we were often a better team w/ Kadary at the point, and JG3 could've easily been moved to SG, like he was at Clemson, for stretches at a time. But unfortunately that would've meant Buddy had to sit...and we couldn't have that, could we?
This wasn't just a case of "the kid wasn't ready", he showed out at almost every opportunity and was easily the best defensive player on the floor...when he played
And it's also not racial or about Joe being a bad player- he just wasn't a PG. Period. JMHO

 

[two3zone]

Played plenty?

This is from March 2021:
Let's just get this over with:

Category: Kadary / Joe
PER: 18.4 / 13.6
TS%: .527 / .484
eFG%: .478 / .453
WS/40: .128 / .078
OBPM: 1.7 / 0.8
DBPM: 4.6 / 1.5
BPM: 6.2 / 2.3

More traditional shooting percentage stats:
FG%: .453 / .357
2PT%: .475 / .389
3PT%: .333 / .333

SHOOTING? OVERALL? DEFENSE? COOKING PANCAKES?

What is the question, here. Honestly, the only thing that Joe is better at him than is being from Glens Falls as far as I can tell.

Kadary Richmond in the transfer portal

What was Kadary shooting from November-January? 49.3% from the field. 37-75. Pretty pretty good

syracusefan.com

Again, not going to let people retcon this story. Especially when I had to deal with it this summer for the current roster.

 

[two3zone]

Can't believe you're willing to die on this hill...but have at it.
Even as a freshman, Kadary was worthy of more PT, and given time he would've been the better player, by far especially on defense, than Joe. They had differing skill sets & we needed a PG and JG wasn't it, despite JB trying to force it down the teams throat.
JB DID stubbornly refuse to play the kid who gave us a better shot on defense alone, because Buddy had to play his 37 minutes, and JG3 provided "spacing" on offense. It was belligerent and unnecessary- we were often a better team w/ Kadary at the point, and JG3 could've easily been moved to PG, like he did at Clemson, for stretches at a time. But unfortunately that would've meant Buddy had to sit...and we couldn't have that, could we?
This wasn't just a case of "the kid wasn't ready", he showed out at almost every opportunity and was easily the best defensive player on the floor...when he played
And it's also not racial or about Joe being a bad player- he just wasn't a PG, period. JMHO

Any game we were down with 5 minutes to go ill bet anything we are screaming for Kadary.

Who would then come in to simply walk the ball past the center line when not one other player on the floor was capable when a press was slapped on us.

Coaches didn't learn how to play us until the end of the game when they knew they just had to pressure Joe, we're lucky they didn't learn earlier.

 

[Brooky03]

Can't believe you're willing to die on this hill...but have at it.
Even as a freshman, Kadary was worthy of more PT, and given time he would've been the better player, especially on defense, than Joe. They had differing skill sets & we needed a PG and JG3 wasn't it, despite JB trying to force it down the teams throat.
JB DID stubbornly refuse to play the kid who gave us a better shot on defense alone, because Buddy HAD to play his 37 minutes, and JG3 provided "spacing" on offense. It was belligerent and unnecessary- we were often a better team w/ Kadary at the point, and JG3 could've easily been moved to SG, like he was at Clemson, for stretches at a time. But unfortunately that would've meant Buddy had to sit...and we couldn't have that, could we?
This wasn't just a case of "the kid wasn't ready", he showed out at almost every opportunity and was easily the best defensive player on the floor...when he played
And it's also not racial or about Joe being a bad player- he just wasn't a PG. Period. JMHO

If the team was better with Kadary at the point it would have shown, yet rarely did.

You are overrating his defense drastically and you know it.

 

[DoctorBombay]

If the team was better with Kadary at the point it would have shown, yet rarely did.

You are overrating his defense drastically and you know it.

And you are diminishing his PG abilities drastically...and you know it.

 

[Delmar]

It isn’t just that SU basketball isn’t what it used to be, all of men’s college basketball isn’t what it used to be. There is no more development of talent, watching a player grow over four years, or a team developing chemistry. The best players are gone after a year. And it doesn’t help that UConn has won the tourney that last two years. I didn’t watch the Final Four last year for the first time since the 1960’s.
Now get off my lawn.

 

[im4cuse]

Well, there are ways to be sure.

Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson says not sure.

 

[Red Holzman]

"Having a hard time" thread circles back to the heated Joe vs Kadary debate-
Those were Good Times on the board LOL.
Does provides perspective: compared to the despair watching those My Three Sons teams, the program has better talent and more coming in next year's class.
Guarded optimism that better talent and Red developing his HC chops has the program on right trajectory.

 

[Sbucketball]

No matter the sport, I just find it very difficult to watch a team that's defensively challenged. Given a choice between a good offense vs a good defense, I identify w/ the defense all the time. Even JB's brick-laying squads still won 20 games, and made Sweet 16's. They weren't always pleasant to watch, but an ugly win is always better than some pretty loss...and we've had plenty of those lately.
I prefer not to "outscore" teams 95-94...in 2OTs, or fight back into a game and lose because we can't get a key stop, or make a free throw. That gets old, very quickly- and unfortunately has become the norm starting w/ the turnstile defenses of "Daddy Ball".
I'll always support the Orange and wear my colors on game day, I'm just not as obsessed as I used to be.

I also prefer a good defensive team. I was hoping the vision would be athletic lock down defenders holding teams to 50-55. It's tough to watch teams get easy buckets.