APR - One More Time | Syracusefan.com

APR - One More Time

HoustonCuse

2020-21 Iggy Winner Lead Scorer & Post Season Rcd
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Can someone help me figure this out. Assuming the following is all true:

1. Mookie is gone from school
2. Melo is gone from school
3. Dion will leave early and not finish the semester

What year or years will we be banned from the NCAA tournament? Next year or 2014? Or both?
 
Can someone help me figure this out. Assuming the following is all true:

1. Mookie is gone from school
2. Melo is gone from school
3. Dion will leave early and not finish the semester

What year or years will we be banned from the NCAA tournament? Next year or 2014? Or both?

I have looked at this before. Assuming they are using the same timelines, can't be for next year's, because this year's score wouldn't come out until after next season.
 
Well how does the scoring work? How many players need to be in bad academic standing for you to get kicked out of the NCAA? And Mookie left school, but I never heard he was in bad academic standing?
 
Didnt JB already say were fine and was then backed up by factual evidence in the paper?

He meant fine right now. That doesn't include any of the defections I mentioned. In that same rant, he said just two players leaving early bans you from the tourney. We have at least 3 this year to absorb into our APR. We are definitely getting a ban. It is just a matter of what year.
 
Jimmy said were fine, ill roll with him...

I think you guys are misunderstand what he said. He said we are fine THIS YEAR because the article he was ranting about implied we would have been banned this year if the rule was in effect. He went on to say that we are definitely not fine if more than one player defects early. We have 3.
 
He meant fine right now. That doesn't include any of the defections I mentioned. In that same rant, he said just two players leaving early bans you from the tourney. We have at least 3 this year to absorb into our APR. We are definitely getting a ban. It is just a matter of what year.
it all depends on if Dion was going to class, because we know Fab wasn't

also Mookie left at the beginning of the semester so that shouldn't hurt the APR
 
He meant fine right now. That doesn't include any of the defections I mentioned. In that same rant, he said just two players leaving early bans you from the tourney. We have at least 3 this year to absorb into our APR. We are definitely getting a ban. It is just a matter of what year.
So then UK is banned every year from here on out?
 
So then UK is banned every year from here on out?

Guys - pay attention. If you leave early and do not finish the semester, you count 2 points off the APR. According to Jimmy, if you lose 4 points off a perfect APR, you get a ban.How Kentucky gets players to "finish" the Spring semester in good standing is beyond my knowledge and in any event, with all the scrutiny on SU right now - there is no way they can cut corners on this like UK probably does.

The university backed Jimmy up on THIS YEAR's number which does not include any of the FUTURE defections (Fab, Dion, Mook).

If Mook left at the breakpoint between semesters then we are OK with him. Dion is going to need to take one for the team and somehow finish out his work while doing all the camps, etc. Many that is going to be a longshot (even if he wanted to, it seems impossible).
 
I thought I heard somewhere that Mookie was going to be back on campus to finish his degree? Anyone else hear anything?
 
I thought I heard somewhere that Mookie was going to be back on campus to finish his degree? Anyone else hear anything?

It doesn't even matter if he was in good standing when he left. This may be just a Fab and Dion problem. Need one of them to finish this semester in good standing (again if JB's claims in the presser were valid).
 
Can someone help me figure this out. Assuming the following is all true:

1. Mookie is gone from school
2. Melo is gone from school
3. Dion will leave early and not finish the semester

What year or years will we be banned from the NCAA tournament? Next year or 2014? Or both?

from what i understand APR measures progress towards degree. there are certain benchmarks/milestones that have to be met based on your year of school.
 
It doesn't even matter if he was in good standing when he left. This may be just a Fab and Dion problem. Need one of them to finish this semester in good standing (again if JB's claims in the presser were valid).
the sky is falling.
 
Ok, right now, we only know 2 scores for sure. The most recent score out there is the 2009-2010 score (scores come out the May following the end of the school year; so in May 2011, the scores for the season ending 2010 came out. This may, we'll get last year's score. Etc). Prior to the last 2 years, the NCAA just has the rolling4 year average; I think we'll be able to back into some of the single season scores that way, but probably not exactly.

I misspoke before; we aren't necessarily fine for next year, but what I meant to say was that any defections this year will not hurt usn ext year, because the score won't be out until after the tournament next year. You need a 4 year score of 930 to be eligible. (We wouldn't have been eligible this year, if that were the standard).

The two scores we know, like i said, are 2009 and 2010. 2009 was awful, 865. 2010 was perfect, 1000. Ottomets and I discussed this in a thread a few weeks back, the score for last year should be pretty close to 1,000. Riley transferred, but you are able to apply for a waiver in that case, and I believe Dash was known to be a pretty solid student. (And he was eligible for EMU this year, so there shouldn't be an issue there).

So for the 2013 tournament, the 4 year run goes from 2008-2011. The 2011 score we don't know yet, but we can speculate that it is close to 1000. A 4 year average of 930 equates to 3,720 points over the 4 year period. We know for sure we got 1,865 points between 2009 and 2010. Meaning we'd need 1,855 points from 2008 and 2011 to be safe. Did anyone leave school after the 2008 season? Donte went pro, I don't know about his standing. Other than him, I believe we were fine? (Josh Wright, did he leave that year?) Anyway, our 4 year point total was 3712, subtracting out the 2 years we know about leaves 1,847 points for the 2007 and 2008 seasons. In the worst case scenario, for our purposes, we scored 1000 points in 2007 and 847 in 2008. If that were the case, we would be screwed. It would mean that no matter what, even with a 1,000 score for last year, we'd be at 3.712 points, meaning we'd be short.

However, I don't think that is the most likely distribution of points. Averaging the 1,847 over the 2 years gives us 923.5 per year. If that were the case, we'd only need a 931.5 for last year to be fine, a hurdle we should easily clear. Getting back to the 2008 score; I don't think it is very good. Our 4 year average went from a 955 to a 932 the first year the 2008 score was involved, meaning that the 2008 score was 92 points lower than the corresponding year that fell off the 4 year period. So the absolute best it could was 908 (assuming the year replacing it was 1,000). Let's say it was 875, which is still a pretty bad score. If it was 875, we'd need a 980 from last year to get to the 930 average. All that being said, the school seems to think we are ok for 2013, which works for me because they know their 2008 score and probably know the 2011 score as well.

Which brings us to 2014. We still have that 865 score in there, and we'll have the bad score this year. The school can't know if we're fine for 2014, because the year isn't over yet. The math is basically the same here as what I outlined, we're jsut throwing out the 2008 score and replacing it with the 2012 score. We still would need 1,855 points between 2011 and 2012, to add to the 1,865 we picked up in 2009 and 2010. We are assuming the 2011 score is close to 1,000; if that is the case we'd need an 855 from this year to be safe. So every point less 1,000 we get for last year is every point over 855 we need to get this year. Considering we got an 865 from 2009, a score in that range could definitely be in play for this year, meaning last year better have been close to 1,000.
 
It seems like all top 25 programs must have this problem of players leaving early for the NBA. UK's entire team leaves every year. How do all these schools avoid APR penalties? What are we doing differently that needs to change? What the NCAA wants is for schools to not recruit these type of kids.
 
This is a Fab and Dion problem. Which is why I really hope Dion and JB are making sure he is set to leave for the NBA "in good academic standing." Because from everything I've been reading about Fab, he seemingly could care less about his academic standing (I hope I am wrong). Regardless, the academic performance of this year's team will not have an impact on our standing with the NCAA until 2013/2014 at the earliest.
 
The University issued a statement backing up JB that APR is not an issue. Case closed.

I wish that were true but it's not. If both Fab and Dion do not finish the semester in good standing then there is a decent chance we are going to have a problem down the line. That's just how the APR works.
 
Ok, right now, we only know 2 scores for sure. The most recent score out there is the 2009-2010 score (scores come out the May following the end of the school year; so in May 2011, the scores for the season ending 2010 came out. This may, we'll get last year's score. Etc). Prior to the last 2 years, the NCAA just has the rolling4 year average; I think we'll be able to back into some of the single season scores that way, but probably not exactly.

I misspoke before; we aren't necessarily fine for next year, but what I meant to say was that any defections this year will not hurt usn ext year, because the score won't be out until after the tournament next year. You need a 4 year score of 930 to be eligible. (We wouldn't have been eligible this year, if that were the standard).

The two scores we know, like i said, are 2009 and 2010. 2009 was awful, 865. 2010 was perfect, 1000. Ottomets and I discussed this in a thread a few weeks back, the score for last year should be pretty close to 1,000. Riley transferred, but you are able to apply for a waiver in that case, and I believe Dash was known to be a pretty solid student. (And he was eligible for EMU this year, so there shouldn't be an issue there).

So for the 2013 tournament, the 4 year run goes from 2008-2011. The 2011 score we don't know yet, but we can speculate that it is close to 1000. A 4 year average of 930 equates to 3,720 points over the 4 year period. We know for sure we got 1,865 points between 2009 and 2010. Meaning we'd need 1,855 points from 2008 and 2011 to be safe. Did anyone leave school after the 2008 season? Donte went pro, I don't know about his standing. Other than him, I believe we were fine? (Josh Wright, did he leave that year?) Anyway, our 4 year point total was 3712, subtracting out the 2 years we know about leaves 1,847 points for the 2007 and 2008 seasons. In the worst case scenario, for our purposes, we scored 1000 points in 2007 and 847 in 2008. If that were the case, we would be screwed. It would mean that no matter what, even with a 1,000 score for last year, we'd be at 3.712 points, meaning we'd be short.

However, I don't think that is the most likely distribution of points. Averaging the 1,847 over the 2 years gives us 923.5 per year. If that were the case, we'd only need a 931.5 for last year to be fine, a hurdle we should easily clear. Getting back to the 2008 score; I don't think it is very good. Our 4 year average went from a 955 to a 932 the first year the 2008 score was involved, meaning that the 2008 score was 92 points lower than the corresponding year that fell off the 4 year period. So the absolute best it could was 908 (assuming the year replacing it was 1,000). Let's say it was 875, which is still a pretty bad score. If it was 875, we'd need a 980 from last year to get to the 930 average. All that being said, the school seems to think we are ok for 2013, which works for me because they know their 2008 score and probably know the 2011 score as well.

Which brings us to 2014. We still have that 865 score in there, and we'll have the bad score this year. The school can't know if we're fine for 2014, because the year isn't over yet. The math is basically the same here as what I outlined, we're jsut throwing out the 2008 score and replacing it with the 2012 score. We still would need 1,855 points between 2011 and 2012, to add to the 1,865 we picked up in 2009 and 2010. We are assuming the 2011 score is close to 1,000; if that is the case we'd need an 855 from this year to be safe. So every point less 1,000 we get for last year is every point over 855 we need to get this year. Considering we got an 865 from 2009, a score in that range could definitely be in play for this year, meaning last year better have been close to 1,000.
Definite thread killer :rolling:
 
It seems like all top 25 programs must have this problem of players leaving early for the NBA. UK's entire team leaves every year. How do all these schools avoid APR penalties? What are we doing differently that needs to change? What the NCAA wants is for schools to not recruit these type of kids.


1) answer the NCAA would tell you: "Kentucky's kids are going pro early but they continue to go to class through the end of their first year"
2) cynical answer: "Uk keeps them eligible through the end of their first year"
 

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