are there...

[SWC75]

You don't need to be a big man to coach bugs. Anyone who went to a decent basketball camp and paid attention as a kid at least was taught the fundamentals. Anyone coaching at a college level should know these fundamentals and the drills to sharpen those skills. It's not rocket science, it's whether or not it's prioritized. PC and BS need to want it enough to put in the extra time on the drills and with the coaches - who also need to be willing to work with them either before or after practice. The good centers we've had spent a LOT of extra time working on their games. I don't know whether these guys spend that extra time or not. More likely, they are rehabbing during their down time because they can't stay healthy.

Our big man coach for years was a former team manager.

 

[orangecuse]

I’m pretty sure a former point guard is coaching the big men at Connecticut.

Oh, is that the same Connecticut that many here claim is deteriorating and whose fate is the deep abyss? Good to know thought that UConn is using a former guard, that's comforting.

 

[realorange]

Some of you talk like every former "big man" wants to become a coach. I would guess that might only apply to less than 1% of former good big men grads.

As others have pointed out we've had some very good centers over the years taught by those who never played a game in the paint.

 

[orangecuse]

I don't agree with this. A talented big can watch Rakeem for evidence of what I've observed: the 5 is Option 5 in Boeheim's offense. When the four guys around him stunk, he got touches on an 18-13 team. It was truly Boeheim's last resort. For the other three years he was ignored.

Obviously Chukwu's looking less reliable than he's ever looked on offense. If that's going to be used to justify not feeding the post, fair enough. But the offense has virtually never relied on scoring from this position, regardless of the skills of an individual center, whether it's Leron Ellis, Otis Hill, or Onuaku (who, again, took led his team in shots maybe half a dozen times...this has come up in threads about this topic before).

It's a wing-centric offense and a center who wants to be the focal point will always look elsewhere.

Yeah, that's about where I sit. I would not touch SU if I was a big man with any offensive aptitude or if I was hoping to develop my offense. No. No. And Nope.

I concur, Arinze was shockingly well developed as a Frosh from what I expected of him coming in.

Christmas was much the same - I remember watching exhibition games when he first stepped on campus and his short jumper, some of his movement seemed pretty well developed -I definitely thought he would be dominant by Soph year, or at least on the way there. The fact that we wouldn't let him touch the ball until all other options were exhausted still irks me. If Ennis/Grant come back Christmas probably puts up the same numbers Senior year as his Junior year and goes down as a hugely disappointing C, that didn't hustle enough, and never lived up to his hype.

Two bullseye posts IMO. #MeToo.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Christmas definitely improved. He was not the same player his freshman year as his senior year. He couldn’t even catch the ball when he first came here and his turnover rate decreasing every year he was here reflects that. One of the biggest myths on this board.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Oh, is that the same Connecticut that many here claim is deteriorating and whose fate is the deep abyss? Good to know thought that UConn is using a former guard, that's comforting.

The same Uconn that just beat us out for Akok Akok, and has a history of producing good big men. Guess it doesn’t matter who is coaching big men.

 

[HOFCeluck]

This kind of reminds me of how many posters used to (maybe still) advocate for Derrick Coleman as an assistant coach, for reasons.

 

[orangecuse]

The same Uconn that just beat us out for Akok Akok, and has a history of producing good big men. Guess it doesn’t matter who is coaching big men.

I guess it also doesn't matter drawing a comparison to a team whose fate is the abyss according to many either.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I guess it also doesn't matter drawing a comparison to a team whose fate is the abyss according to many either.

Well, I already used Duke, Kansas, UNC and Kentucky, soooo....

Arizona has some little guy named Mark Phelps coaching the big men.

The guy coaching the bigs at Michigan is a 6-3 former guard.

 

[Ghost]

Christmas definitely improved. He was not the same player his freshman year as his senior year. He couldn’t even catch the ball when he first came here and his turnover rate decreasing every year he was here reflects that. One of the biggest myths on this board.

Hardly anyone legitimately regresses from Frosh to Senior year. I would imagine it's rather unheard of for someone to get worse.

He couldn't catch the ball? I recall the biggest gripe being that he didn't hustle enough - which was true early on, but that myth carried on far after it was gone - I think largely because the offensive numbers didn't improve much (lack of touches hurt) and it was just the easy thing to complain about and everyone just kept going with it. His turnover rate was highest his Senior year FWIW.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hardly anyone legitimately regresses from Frosh to Senior year. I would imagine it's rather unheard of for someone to get worse.

He couldn't catch the ball? I recall the biggest gripe being that he didn't hustle enough - which was true early on, but that myth carried on far after it was gone - I think largely because the offensive numbers didn't improve much (lack of touches hurt) and it was just the easy thing to complain about and everyone just kept going with it. His turnover rate was highest his Senior year FWIW.

Turnover rate is different from turnovers per game. He turned it over on 21 percent of his touches his freshman year. 14 his senior year.

 

[Ghost]

Turnover rate is different from turnovers per game. He turned it over on 21 percent of his touches his freshman year. 14 his senior year.

Ooooooooooh, my bad! Good correction - what were his other percentages out of curiosity?

Because as a Frosh it makes sense to me, he also was guilty of not hustling all the time, but from the other years it always felt to me like his hands were fine (and he hustled) - it was just we wouldn't let the ball touch those hands so much and a weird narrative seemed to persist that he was a non-hustling bumbling fool. Until the roster was ***** and we had to let hi touch the ball - and then all of a sudden he was fine.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Ooooooooooh, my bad! Good correction - what were his other percentages out of curiosity?

Because as a Frosh it makes sense to me, he also was guilty of not hustling all the time, but from the other years it always felt to me like his hands were fine (and he hustled) - it was just we wouldn't let the ball touch those hands so much and a weird narrative seemed to persist that he was a non-hustling bumbling fool. Until the roster was ***** and we had to let hi touch the ball - and then all of a sudden he was fine.

Thought this was interesting

“To refine his offensive repertoire, Christmas kept it simple initially. Hopkins drilled down on what he called the “foot fight”—Christmas wasn’t going to produce if he couldn’t move himself in position to do so—and on perfecting a baby hook with both the left and right hands. From there, Boeheim and his staff grew more comfortable feeding Christmas, with his usage rate doubling from his junior year to his senior year (12.2 percent to 26.3).

“The biggest thing is simplicity, being good at two or three things, and having confidence in that,” Hopkins said. “And then you start just playing. There’s learning based on how the season has progressed”

At least on Tuesday, Christmas did not appear to have a toolbox of nifty moves comparable to, say, that of Duke freshman Jahlil Okafor. He also forced the issue a bit and missed some shots he typically makes—he was 5-of-14 from the floor with six turnovers—due to frustration. But Christmas essentially became a vital offensive player only months ago. And now he can deftly pass out of double-teams or work away from the blocks, as he did in feeding Ron Patterson for a score on a terrific high-low pass in the second half.

How Rakeem Christmas has kept Syracuse relevant despite its postseason ban

 

[SWC75]

The same Uconn that just beat us out for Akok Akok, and has a history of producing good big men. Guess it doesn’t matter who is coaching big men.

The eternal question: is Akok Akok as good as Bol Bol?

And how does John Bol Ajak compare to them?

Maybe we should ask: "Why are all our big men from other countries? " JB always says it takes a big man longer to develop. wouldn't it be better to have big men who have played the game their whole life?

 

[alphaorange]

Carlos Boozer, Sheldon Williams, the Plumlees, Jalil Okafor, Marvin Bagley

According to sports-reference, it is : Forward, forward, forward, forward, center, center, and forward. Only Okafor was a stud center in college. Marshall Plumley was very, very pedestrian. But if you want to count forwards masquerading as centers, as well, we have had:
Watkins, Onuaku, D Riley, keita, Fab, Coleman, and Rakeem. I'll roll with ours...

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Hardly anyone legitimately regresses from Frosh to Senior year. I would imagine it's rather unheard of for someone to get worse.

He couldn't catch the ball? I recall the biggest gripe being that he didn't hustle enough - which was true early on, but that myth carried on far after it was gone - I think largely because the offensive numbers didn't improve much (lack of touches hurt) and it was just the easy thing to complain about and everyone just kept going with it. His turnover rate was highest his Senior year FWIW.

I don't remember him having 'bad hands.' He was a McD's player on the 2011 team. Not a lot of those guys are as inept as he's being described in this thread.

I remember Rak as having all the tools when he came in, but he didn't have the best motor, and he just didn't put everything together, execution-wise until the second half of his SU career. Great athlete, pretty form, but it was almost like he just didn't want it enough, from an external, superficial perspective. I don't know what it was that 'flipped the switch,' but it always seemed like it was always already 'there,' just not 'activated.'

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The eternal question: is Akok Akok as good as Bol Bol?

And how does John Bol Ajak compare to them?

Maybe we should ask: "Why are all our big men from other countries? " JB always says it takes a big man longer to develop. wouldn't it be better to have big men who have played the game their whole life?

I don't think our Bol (Ajak) is a traditional 'center.' I hope we don't try to force him to play that way. Doesn't seem like it's in his character. Looks like he's more of a Lydon kinda guy.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

The eternal question: is Akok Akok as good as Bol Bol?

No, probably not.

And how does John Bol Ajak compare to them?

I don’t think he’s nearly as good as either one.

Maybe we should ask: "Why are all our big men from other countries? " JB always says it takes a big man longer to develop. wouldn't it be better to have big men who have played the game their whole life?

Maybe. I don’t think there are many really good centers out there in high school. Maybe 3-4 5-star kids and handful of 4-star kids and the rest 3-star kids. Most of them are project to begin with.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

According to sports-reference, it is : Forward, forward, forward, forward, center, center, and forward. Only Okafor was a stud center in college. Marshall Plumley was very, very pedestrian. But if you want to count forwards masquerading as centers, as well, we have had:
Watkins, Onuaku, D Riley, keita, Fab, Coleman, and Rakeem. I'll roll with ours...

Pretty sure they all played Center at Duke. I know Boozer did.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I don't remember him having 'bad hands.' He was a McD's player on the 2011 team. Not a lot of those guys are as inept as he's being described in this thread.

I remember Rak as having all the tools when he came in, but he didn't have the best motor, and he just didn't put everything together, execution-wise until the second half of his SU career. Great athlete, pretty form, but it was almost like he just didn't want it enough, from an external, superficial perspective. I don't know what it was that 'flipped the switch,' but it always seemed like it was always already 'there,' just not 'activated.'

“Christmas said he's gone from a young player who relied on his size and athleticism to a veteran who knows where and how to get his points.
"When I first came in as a freshman, I didn't know what was going on,'' Christmas said. "I was just running around, being athletic, trying to rebound and play defense. I had to put two-and-two together to improve my all-around game. I focused on little things like my hook shot, making better plays and smarter choices.''


"I think it's just a culmination of the work,'' Boeheim said. "He's more prepared. He's worked very hard. Coach (Mike) Hopkins has done an unbelievable job of getting him ready and he's responded.''

Syracuse's Rakeem Christmas shows most improvement of any senior in Jim Boeheim era

 

[Cusesky8214]

Raks freshman year wasnt very good considering he was a mcd's all American and so highly regarded as a recruit. I remember being disappointed because some of the other bigtime schools were getting freshman that were major contributors right out of the gate and that wasnt the case for Rak. We got 2 mcd's in both Rak and Coleman that were very underwhelming as freshman compared to some of the other stud freshman. I dont think it has anything to do with coaching but was just the luck of the draw for us. Raks senior year was special though!