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are there...

BillSU

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really any good centers coming out of high school / AAU Circuit who can play the position well or do they always have to be developed? There is a certain amount of coaching required going to a high level college from high school so maybe I am asking too much but about now I'd like to see our centers do something to help us win. The best, Dave Bing, Derrick Coleman, Melo, Washington and Douglas to name some didn't need much coaching. Maybe we'll get a center this cycle who will contribute as a freshman.
Seems I have never seen a big man who is game ready stepping on the court in his first college game. Chukwu is an exception because of injury and he hadn't played that much basketball before SU but there is something he's missing – running the floor better, the drive, the aggressiveness, staying low with the ball when he has possession at the low post with two or three defenders around him then coming up with the ball to receive a hit and foul. He and Sidibe both need to do more in order to be effective for us. They're not getting better. How long are we going to wait for either to have a break out game. So who are you going to get? We have to go with who we have. Aside from shot blocking and minor points they're just wasting time, creating turnovers and fouling. Ever consider a coaching position at SU Rony Seikaly? GOSU :)
 
It’s positionless basketball nowadays. True centers are a dying breed if not dead. Bol Bol is a perfect example. 7’2 with (developing) guard skills.
 
It’s positionless basketball nowadays. True centers are a dying breed if not dead. Bol Bol is a perfect example. 7’2 with (developing) guard skills.

Surely not dead.
 
I see good centers on a lot of teams. At least ones who don’t look lost. Granted they may not have the requisite beanpole physique but they are out there. Teske on Michigan. We’d be undefeated with him. The guy rolls hard. Sets GREAT screens. Can score so he is a threat. He bangs too. He would make Bol Bol at least work out there. We’d be undefeated with that James Banks transfer Georgia Tech has from Texas. Or Malik Williams on Louisville. He’s a PERFECT JB zone C. He can do a lot of little things. Made two 3s and had 4 blocks against Seton Hall. Their other C Enoch does a lot more than our guys.
 
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Pretend you're a talented high school center and ask yourself why you'd want to play at Syracuse. So you can fight for position every possession while your guards ignore the post?

Whether you're critical of Boeheim or an unquestioned supporter, it's clear that this position is just not a featured part of his offense. Even skilled people like Onuaku got a dozen or so touches a game. Whatever, it's not a judgment - in a zero-sum game that's increasingly micromanaged by coaches who prefer to limit possessions, there won't be enough balls to go around. At Syracuse, the preferred style of play is attractive to wings but not to bigs. Oh well.
 
Pretend you're a talented high school center and ask yourself why you'd want to play at Syracuse. So you can fight for position every possession while your guards ignore the post?

Whether you're critical of Boeheim or an unquestioned supporter, it's clear that this position is just not a featured part of his offense. Even skilled people like Onuaku got a dozen or so touches a game. Whatever, it's not a judgment - in a zero-sum game that's increasingly micromanaged by coaches who prefer to limit possessions, there won't be enough balls to go around. At Syracuse, the preferred style of play is attractive to wings but not to bigs. Oh well.
Yeppers. That and you look at the qualifications of the guy who would be coaching you on a daily basis. A guard? No thank you.

I just looked again yesterday at the ‘reels’ of two players we are trying to get next year and they both might be something after a couple of years but not reliable options immediately.

I hate that we can’t get even a ‘solid’ guy who can contribute. We have been a ‘basketball power,’ but now seem to get too many ‘projects’ who only sometimes make the zone more effective. Quickness and length are nice but a bit of strength and skill would be nice too.

Check out Qudus Wahab and Dimon Carrigsn. I’d be interested to know which you’d prefer and if you think they could contribute sooner than later.
 
Check out hunter Dickinson in the 2020 class... he’s a kid that would contribute right away if he came here
 
Yeppers. That and you look at the qualifications of the guy who would be coaching you on a daily basis. A guard? No thank you.

I just looked again yesterday at the ‘reels’ of two players we are trying to get next year and they both might be something after a couple of years but not reliable options immediately.

I hate that we can’t get even a ‘solid’ guy who can contribute. We have been a ‘basketball power,’ but now seem to get too many ‘projects’ who only sometimes make the zone more effective. Quickness and length are nice but a bit of strength and skill would be nice too.

Check out Qudus Wahab and Dimon Carrigsn. I’d be interested to know which you’d prefer and if you think they could contribute sooner than later.

I don't know that a guard can't coach a big, but I will say that I'm rarely impressed by our centers' fundamentals on offense, along with their improvement over the course of their careers (for all the 'but Rakeem!' and 'what about Arinze' stuff I hear, those guys showed glimpses of those skills as freshmen).

After that negative note, I'll move on and say that I know very little about recruiting but if Boeheim likes those centers, they'll probably be good fits at SU defensively. Maybe not immediate contributors, probably never 10-ppg scorers, but ultimately decent shot-blockers who can captain the defense, hustle to defend a corner three, and step up to deny dribble penetration. My expectations are low, but I'm sure they'll be capable of doing exactly what Boeheim wants them to do.
 
Wahab has offensive potential. Cardigan is a block shots and Dunk guy. Best shot blocker in the country his senior year of high school.
 
Wahab has offensive potential. Cardigan is a block shots and Dunk guy. Best shot blocker in the country his senior year of high school.

I’ll take a dunk. Tired of commentators (rightfully so) getting a little jab in how Chukwu is 7’2 and doesn’t have a dunk yet.

Originally I wasn’t that high on Wahab. But, we need bigs who can do something and give us SOME threat. He has some natural skills there like you say. Seems like he is often fading away from the basket though and not trying to dunk on the shrimps he is going against. But he has a frame that looks good and is pretty sturdy already.
 
Yeppers. That and you look at the qualifications of the guy who would be coaching you on a daily basis. A guard? No thank you.

I just looked again yesterday at the ‘reels’ of two players we are trying to get next year and they both might be something after a couple of years but not reliable options immediately.

I hate that we can’t get even a ‘solid’ guy who can contribute. We have been a ‘basketball power,’ but now seem to get too many ‘projects’ who only sometimes make the zone more effective. Quickness and length are nice but a bit of strength and skill would be nice too.

Check out Qudus Wahab and Dimon Carrigsn. I’d be interested to know which you’d prefer and if you think they could contribute sooner than later.

Duke’s staff features two wings(Nate James and Chris Carrawell) and a guard (Jon Scheyer).
 
Duke’s staff features two wings(Nate James and Chris Carrawell) and a guard (Jon Scheyer).
I'm not saying it's the only thing. When you recruit top 10s and finish at the top of your league and are ranked in the top 5 and then put three guys per year into the NBA, you can prolly get away with not having a former center on staff. We just need to have a better set of 'lures' to get bigger fish.
 
Duke’s staff features two wings(Nate James and Chris Carrawell) and a guard (Jon Scheyer).


So Mike Gminski is not back there coaching the big men?

Seems like they are always producing great centers.
 
I'm not saying it's the only thing. When you recruit top 10s and finish at the top of your league and are ranked in the top 5 and then put three guys per year into the NBA, you can prolly get away with not having a former center on staff. We just need to have a better set of 'lures' to get bigger fish.

I’m pretty sure a former point guard is coaching the big men at Connecticut.
 
The wings and guards would have field day if we had a go to center. Defense would have to guard five players not 4.
 
I'm not saying it's the only thing. When you recruit top 10s and finish at the top of your league and are ranked in the top 5 and then put three guys per year into the NBA, you can prolly get away with not having a former center on staff. We just need to have a better set of 'lures' to get bigger fish.

How many staff have bigs coaching bigs?

All the coaches are guards for the most part everywhere.
 
Three points:

1. You don't have to be a former big to coach centers. Hop was a wing and he coached NBA centers/bigs in the pics. You just have to understand the position and what has to be done. Tiger's long-time coach (Butch Harmon) can't hit a 320 yard drive either;
2. It is probably true that SU doesn't have a prestigious rep. for churning out bigs -- maybe it's the demands of the zone, the players we've had (or not had) who knows -- but that does not create much leverage for other programs because the game has changed and traditional low-block offense is less in demand (Nova);
3. We feed our bigs when we have experienced guards and a center who can score. Rak Christmas averaged 17-18 points his senior year, on about 12 field goal attempts. He was getting touches because the guards were feeding him. Are our current guards adept at feeding the post, no. But then again: a) Chewy has had his problems catching it, keeping it and scoring the ball; and b) we're seeing "clog-the-paint" defenses because we can't shoot. If we had better shooters (jury's out on the current roster), that would open things up and make Chewy's life easier). It's a team game.
 
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Centers are just like other players; one of the factors in their college selection is coaching. Selector schools get their choice of centers regardless but we do not. If a kid is not going to Duke, Kentucky or Kansas he will factor in coaching. Having a name brand center coach would likely make a difference to some recruits. Georgetown is not going to be lacking for center recruits. Since Rak's graduation we have been hurting at the center position. Having a known center coach might remedy the situation. Not having one decreases our odds of fixing the situation. Lunacy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. 'Occasionally' we get a stud big man but it would be better if we got one 'frequently'.
 
Alright, so even if we acknowledge it's not 'the standard' to have a former big teaching new bigs — when you look at our program, 1) are you happy with who we're getting at C; 2) are you happy with the Cs' progress; 3) is having GMac schooling your C on the nuances of playing Center the ideal way to address 'the problem' if you think there is a problem; and 4) is #3 the best way to address the issue of not being as attractive to top-level C recruits, when perception is important to a player who hasn't yet experienced the masterful zen-like teachings of GMac as passed down from Hopkins.

I'm looking for an edge, an improvement, an advantage we can use to sell ourselves better. Optics count sometimes. Recruiting is marketing.

We now have a 7'2" guy who hasn't dunked this season, and passes to the corner when he's got the ball under the hoop. And another guy who may be still recovering from injury, but struggles to convert in the paint, even though he seemed to have those kinds of skills in HS. These things aren't new for us, and I don't see those kinds of troubles in other programs.
 
Alright, so even if we acknowledge it's not 'the standard' to have a former big teaching new bigs — when you look at our program, 1) are you happy with who we're getting at C; 2) are you happy with the Cs' progress; 3) is having GMac schooling your C on the nuances of playing Center the ideal way to address 'the problem' if you think there is a problem; and 4) is #3 the best way to address the issue of not being as attractive to top-level C recruits, when perception is important to a player who hasn't yet experienced the masterful zen-like teachings of GMac as passed down from Hopkins.

I'm looking for an edge, an improvement, an advantage we can use to sell ourselves better. Optics count sometimes. Recruiting is marketing.

We now have a 7'2" guy who hasn't dunked this season, and passes to the corner when he's got the ball under the hoop. And another guy who may be still recovering from injury, but struggles to convert in the paint, even though he seemed to have those kinds of skills in HS. These things aren't new for us, and I don't see those kinds of troubles in other programs.

Gmac isn’t coaching the centers!!!!

Let’s blame Gmac for everything!!!!!
 

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