Are we better with Hima out there over McLeod?

[br801]

So, let's talk about that.

Let's start with LeRon Ellis. I think he only had 2 seasons with us, but he replaced Seikaly and kept us right at an elite level, although he wasn't quite as good as Rony, but an elite player who transferred from Kentucky and went to HS with Hop. His 1st year he had 6 pts & 4 rebs, but Coleman and McRae also took some minutes at C so we could get Dave Johnson on the floor. As a senior, 11 points, 8 rebs & 2.5 blocks a game in 29 minutes, for the Big East Champs and #7 ranked team in the final poll.

Danny Schayes backed up Rosie Bouie, but in his senior year (only year as a starter), we won the Big East Tournament. He averaged 14.6 pts and 8 reb, and went on to have an 18 year NBA career.

Otis Hill got us to a Championship Game as John Wallace's sidekick, and was arguably the difference maker in the National Semifinal game vs. MIssissippi State. He averaged 11 points and 5 rebounds over 4 years, and peaked at 16 points and 6.4 rebounds as a senior.

Conrad McRae was the anchor at center during the transition from the Glory Days (1) though Probation, along with guys like Autry, Moten, Hopkins, Wallace and Lukey Jackson. He was a ferocious shot blocker, had great hops, and a decent shot, but he shot us out of a couple big games when he should not have been the guy taking the shot. Talented guy, though; not a great basketball IQ at times.

Hawkins battled in the early Big East against Ewing, Pinone and Pinckney, Bill Wennington, those guys. Tough as nails at only 6-5. Heart of a lion.

Reafsnyder was part of a center rotation that got us to a championship game, and was a more talented, more athletic version of Craig Forth. Results matter. Being part of a good team vs. a bad one says something about your worth as a player.

That's a fair take on those guys. I realize the team didn't have great success in the win column during Edwards' last two seasons here, and he struggled with foul trouble at times, but he was a fantastic college center who put up excellent numbers on a per game and per 40 minute basis, and ultimately developed a nice offensive game to go along with his elite rebounding and shot blocking skills. I just think he was better than a few of the guys on your list.

 

[grepal]

With more playable centers more time can be given to Brown at PF, where he can rotate with Benny. Taylor can then give us another option at SF. Overall, Hima allows more options. Is he better than McLeod - probably.

How many minutes can he play with knee issues is a big question.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Mcleod brings some intriguing qualities to the table

Besides blocking shots I have no idea what you could be talking about here.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Besides blocking shots I have no idea what you could be talking about here.

Height?

This thread is depressing.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He's at the edge of the Top 10, so I guess I agree. But he wasn't that great, yet. His offense with his back to the basket is not that great; he travels a LOT.

My Top SU Centers:

1. Derrick Coleman (Yes, a PF until his last year. But played C as a Sr.)
2. Rony Seikaly
3. Etan Thomas
4. Bill Smith
5, Arinze Onuaku
6. Rick Jackson
7. LeRon Ellis
8. Danny Schayes
9. Otis Hill
10. Conrad McRae
11. Andre Hawkins
12. J B Reafsnyder

I could see you slotting in Dutch Treat somewhere in there toward the end of the list.

We all love to play the way back memories game, but those guys don’t play the position like it’s played these days. Most elite big men are taking and making 3 pointers now. And even Jesse didn’t do that. Carey, who is probably more a skinny 4, is the only one with that skill, or so I’ve heard.

 

[Mstumpy50]

He's at the edge of the Top 10, so I guess I agree. But he wasn't that great, yet. His offense with his back to the basket is not that great; he travels a LOT.

My Top SU Centers:

1. Derrick Coleman (Yes, a PF until his last year. But played C as a Sr.)
2. Rony Seikaly
3. Etan Thomas
4. Bill Smith
5, Arinze Onuaku
6. Rick Jackson
7. LeRon Ellis
8. Danny Schayes
9. Otis Hill
10. Conrad McRae
11. Andre Hawkins
12. J B Reafsnyder

I could see you slotting in Dutch Treat somewhere in there toward the end of the list.

Rak and Fab both would have to be in the top 12 somewhere for me.

I am not sold that Jesse was amazing but I know he would be a much better option than the current roster of bigs brings and his scholarship would be off the books next year. Unfortunate how it all went down but I think the Cuse record is still the same with or without him thus far. Not sure they can beat Tenn, Zaga or UVA. Just know that the rebound numbers would be better and could actually throw the ball down into the post and have a chance of some offense.

 

[br801]

He's at the edge of the Top 10, so I guess I agree. But he wasn't that great, yet. His offense with his back to the basket is not that great; he travels a LOT.

My Top SU Centers:

1. Derrick Coleman (Yes, a PF until his last year. But played C as a Sr.)
2. Rony Seikaly
3. Etan Thomas
4. Bill Smith
5, Arinze Onuaku
6. Rick Jackson
7. LeRon Ellis
8. Danny Schayes
9. Otis Hill
10. Conrad McRae
11. Andre Hawkins
12. J B Reafsnyder

I could see you slotting in Dutch Treat somewhere in there toward the end of the list.

Wait, where's Rosie? He's easily top five.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Besides blocking shots I have no idea what you could be talking about here.

he can finish ...has good hands...idk


hes actually coordinated

when he dunks it is all power

 

[kcsu]

If we are going to make the dance we need both of these kids to play.

 

[OmahaCuse]

I don't know what you were watching, but Edwards gave us two full seasons of high-end play at center and left after four years in the program. You make it sound like he had a few good games and bolted. I honestly don't get all the butt-hurt.

Ok, we did not make the tourney with him at center, so would debate high-end versus average or above average. My point is we need above average center play to return to the tourney and cant wait for players to be developed like the old days. Edwards would have been all ACC this year

 

[grepal]

We all love to play the way back memories game, but those guys don’t play the position like it’s played these days. Most elite big men are taking and making 3 pointers now. And even Jesse didn’t do that. Carey, who is probably more a skinny 4, is the only one with that skill, or so I’ve heard.

You forget his game winner. I believe he lead the team in 3 point percentage.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Wait, where's Rosie? He's easily top five.

Fab Melo

 

[baggerbob]

Rak and Fab both would have to be in the top 12 somewhere for me.

I am not sold that Jesse was amazing but I know he would be a much better option than the current roster of bigs brings and his scholarship would be off the books next year. Unfortunate how it all went down but I think the Cuse record is still the same with or without him thus far. Not sure they can beat Tenn, Zaga or UVA. Just know that the rebound numbers would be better and could actually throw the ball down into the post and have a chance of some offense.

If Rosie wasn't in their, blow the list up

 

[MSOrange]

Height?

This thread is depressing.

 

[Sbucketball]

We all love to play the way back memories game, but those guys don’t play the position like it’s played these days. Most elite big men are taking and making 3 pointers now. And even Jesse didn’t do that. Carey, who is probably more a skinny 4, is the only one with that skill, or so I’ve heard.

Is Carey a decent 3-point shooter in practice?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

he can finish ...has good hands...idk


hes actually coordinated

when he dunks it is all power

Except when double teamed. Then his hands suck as he’s easily stripped or throws the ball away.

Your opinion confuses me.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

If Rosie wasn't in their, blow the list up

There

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Is Carey a decent 3-point shooter in practice?

That’s what they tell me on the payside.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

nm

Yes

 

[Wrinkle]

McLeod somehow manages to be a prolific shotblocker and still feel like a minus on the defensive end. We're certainly not going to get offense from McLeod or Hima so best rebounder and defender should play

 

[br801]

If Rosie wasn't in their, blow the list up

I would think it was just an oversight.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Except when double teamed. Then his hands suck as he’s easily stripped or throws the ball away.

Your opinion confuses me.

pointing out his good qualities isn't a referendum on the player

at this point, he's too underdeveloped to be a legit #1 option, imo

he has some weaknesses that he might not be able to fix...but he also has something there to work with

idk...at this point, I would prefer an overhaul of the center spot next offseason

 

[IthacaMatt]

That's a fair take on those guys. I realize the team didn't have great success in the win column during Edwards' last two seasons here, and he struggled with foul trouble at times, but he was a fantastic college center who put up excellent numbers on a per game and per 40 minute basis, and ultimately developed a nice offensive game to go along with his elite rebounding and shot blocking skills. I just think he was better than a few of the guys on your list.

Yes, I agree. He developed nicely; I just think we asked a bit too much of him to run the offense through him so much. Most of those post-up travels were when he was too far from the rim. His rebounding was outstanding for a center for us playing zone, no question. And he was a very good shot blocker, although it seems that we have had quite a few of those.

 

[donniesyracuse]

1. Derrick Coleman (Yes, a PF until his last year. But played C as a Sr.)

It was really his junior year when he played a lot of center (this was the year after Seikaly graduated and before Ellis transferred in).

 

[NineOneSeven]

Haven't read this thread so apologies if reposting. Answer is- sometimes yes, sometimes no. We are certainly better with Maliq on the floor more than both. Hima is quicker. He's more aggressive and because of that will be more foul prone. McLeod appears more composed, but also much slower. Hima has a better chance at recovering late than McLeoud because he's got an edge with quickness. I do think McLeod has decent hands and coordination, he just doesn't get in position to use them enough.

For me, we have 10 fouls to use between them. That may matter against bigger physical teams. If we can squeeze 4-6p, 7-9r, and 2-4b combined from them that's a win.