Are we targeting the wrong areas. Wrong kids because. | Syracusefan.com

Are we targeting the wrong areas. Wrong kids because.

kcsu

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Im not sure how the staff targets kids but watching the tournament its obvious that there are so many talented kids playing at mid major schools that ive not heard of before. It just seems that we aren't casting a big enough net. We should be all over our old stomping grounds. Philly DC Baltimore NYC NJ as those kids seem to be on every team in this tournament.
 
Yeah, i'm watching this Gonzaga Memphis thing, and flashing back to when we were at our best.

Look at the composition of our primary players —
Mid- and Late 80s: DC and Seikaly. Owens. Strength.
Go to the 96 title run, and Wallace was a strong player.
03, Carmelo, Forth, McNeil. That's a lot of power. And even Warrick's game had strength.
Then we had Arinze and Jackson.
And Fab Melo. Big power. With CJ, Scoop, Triche, Dion...

And yet, the cliche about our program is that we recruit beanpoles who can get to the corner. Or, put them there way out of position (Marek).

We need strong players, who don't wilt when pressure is applied, but we keep getting underdeveloped yutes because they're supposed to be better suited to the zone.

The level of play and talent is down all over the NCAA—somehow—yet there are a ton of good players on even 'minor' programs. Competent players. Players with fully-developed bodies and fundamental skills. If we're not casting a wide enough net, what's the reason? Of late, we've been settling for family and friends of family. JAB has been very, very comfortable. Even getting Silent G and Bazeley's promise... how hard did JAB have to exert himself there? How many flights out of 'the corridor?'

Feels like we're just lazy and coasting and relying on specious archetypes that aren't actually the formulas for success.
Jim doesn’t travel. I bet he hasn't been in a recruits house other than Joes in years.
 
Jim doesn’t travel. I bet he hasn't been in a recruits house other than Joes in years.
I cant remember within the last 10 years any pictures of recruits with JB at their home or even HS. Its always in Syracuse, maybe an AAU Nike event.
 
I cant remember within the last 10 years any pictures of recruits with JB at their home or even HS. Its always in Syracuse, maybe an AAU Nike event.
Hmmm. Pix or it didn't happen.
But, have we seen pix of Red or GMac in homes either? And surely they must be donig that sort of thing.
 
Dash said he saw a high recruit score 2 points. What did the rating services see that dash didn’t. Or is the rating system fixed politically and monetarily?
 
Im not sure how the staff targets kids but watching the tournament its obvious that there are so many talented kids playing at mid major schools that ive not heard of before. It just seems that we aren't casting a big enough net. We should be all over our old stomping grounds. Philly DC Baltimore NYC NJ as those kids seem to be on every team in this tournament.
Yes, theres some truth to this. They try to target more of a fit than a talent and its from a limited radius which leads to few offers given out on a yearly basis, 15-20 would be alot from SU.

By comparison new Power5 coaches, like Beard, Oates, Musselman, they will offer easily double that, 35-45 to the best players from around the country and go beyond their regional comfort zone. It depends on how much time you want to allot to try to build relationships. It doesnt help when the HC is on cruise control and just going through the motions at this point in his career.
 
Yes, theres some truth to this. They try to target more of a fit than a talent and its from a limited radius which leads to few offers given out on a yearly basis, 15-20 would be alot from SU.

By comparison new Power5 coaches, like Beard, Oates, Musselman, they will offer easily double that, 35-45 to the best players from around the country and go beyond their regional comfort zone. It depends on how much time you want to allot to try to build relationships. It doesnt help when the HC is on cruise control and just going through the motions at this point in his career.
Hey, it's his program. He can do with it what he wants.
 
We're targeting the wrong guards.

Easy to see the difference, when you watch some of these teams on the NCAA stage, and how impactful their guards are.

We've focused on the wrong atropines at least yard for a long time, decater to our defensive system. And now we seem to be emphasizing three-point shooting more than ball handling and the ability to create off the bounce for themselves and others.
 
Targeting the wrong areas...?
Lately, the wrong areas are the only ones that will come to CUSE and play for JB.
 
I cant remember within the last 10 years any pictures of recruits with JB at their home or even HS. Its always in Syracuse, maybe an AAU Nike event.

That kid from Rochester that he went to the birthday party, We didn’t end up with him. I think he went to UW with Hop. It’s the only one I can think of.
 
We're targeting the wrong guards.

Easy to see the difference, when you watch some of these teams on the NCAA stage, and how impactful their guards are.

We've focused on the wrong atropines at least yard for a long time, decater to our defensive system. And now we seem to be emphasizing three-point shooting more than ball handling and the ability to create off the bounce for themselves and others.
Almost every tournament team has a very very good or even excellent POINT Guard. We continue to recruit shooting guards or combo guards and force them to be point guards. Flat out not working
 
That kid from Rochester that he went to the birthday party, We didn’t end up with him. I think he went to UW with Hop. It’s the only one I can think of.
He did like ice cream cake. Otherwise we had him
 
The level of play and talent is down all over the NCAA—somehow—yet there are a ton of good players on even 'minor' programs. Competent players. Players with fully-developed bodies and fundamental skills.
A lot of the teams that are number 1 and 2 seeds now like (injury-depleted Baylor and Kentucky) wouldve struggled to have even been ranked in eras past, in my opinion. Individually, some of these players are no doubt phenomenally talented...a player like Banchero is an undeniable talent...yet if you look at a team like Duke...almost that whole roster wouldve been 3-4 year players in the 80s,90s...how good would they be if that whole roster was together for 3 years??? a lot better than they are now!!!

the best players used to be 22...now they are 19...

the fab five being good was surprising to a lot of people...bc freshman usually didnt do much in the sport up until then. now, they are expected to be stars immediately...benny williams arc used to be pretty normal...now it raises alarm bells


teams used to only really shine once their core came of age as juniors and seniors...now teams like that...simply dont exist in p5 where the talent really is...(teams like UVa Villanova and Gonzaga are the closest it gets to that...but they are the exceptions...and they havent had that much lottery level talent)

"Somehow"???

Its so obvious why. and that this is exacty what would happen as soon as the one and done era came in. and leaving school once you average double figures for one season...

of course, 22 year old midmajor teams can outplay 18 year old one and dones that are only going to be together for 1 year...its not really anything new. Im surprised anyone is surprised by the lower level of play in NCAABB...

in a way it levels the playing field and keeps the major programs within reach of the smaller schools (though the portal undermines continuity for mid majors now too)...but it also seriously lowers the overall quality of play.

its not just a down year...its a feature of the sport now. and a legit reason for the NCAA to try to limit the one and done pathway.

Yeah, i'm watching this Gonzaga Memphis thing, and flashing back to when we were at our best.

Look at the composition of our primary players —
Mid- and Late 80s: DC and Seikaly. Owens. Strength.
Go to the 96 title run, and Wallace was a strong player.
03, Carmelo, Forth, McNeil. That's a lot of power. And even Warrick's game had strength.
Then we had Arinze and Jackson.
And Fab Melo. Big power. With CJ, Scoop, Triche, Dion...

And yet, the cliche about our program is that we recruit beanpoles who can get to the corner. Or, put them there way out of position (Marek).

We need strong players, who don't wilt when pressure is applied, but we keep getting underdeveloped yutes because they're supposed to be better suited to the zone.

The level of play and talent is down all over the NCAA—somehow—yet there are a ton of good players on even 'minor' programs. Competent players. Players with fully-developed bodies and fundamental skills. If we're not casting a wide enough net, what's the reason? Of late, we've been settling for family and friends of family. JAB has been very, very comfortable. Even getting Silent G and Bazeley's promise... how hard did JAB have to exert himself there? How many flights out of 'the corridor?'

Feels like we're just lazy and coasting and relying on specious archetypes that aren't actually the formulas for success.
as far who and how to target in this era...its more of a moving target than it ever was.

i agree the assessment and targeting of players by the staff has been totally off lately...but it makes sense...the landscape is shaky and unpredictable now...so hard to project beyond one season in terms of building a roster...and continuity has always been the way to create a good team

I dont blame a coach for trying to get a bit less talented players and keep them around for 3-4 years and build that way...it makes a lot of sense in this landscape...kentucky only has 1 title with cal...and they have had scores of nba players ...

even if a coach could get the one and dones...it doesnt likely equate with increased odds to win a title...

when a team finds a diamond in the rough like Ennis...what is the reward? hes gone in 1 year! and he must be replaced asap...

coaches now are in a very tricky spot...

some of the younger coaches like oates and beard seem to have it figured out but its not easy now with how empowered players are and how unlikely they are to stay anywhere...

it doesnt fit the narrative...but player empowerment is a detriment to quality of play in my opinion.
 
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Yeah, i'm watching this Gonzaga Memphis thing, and flashing back to when we were at our best.

Look at the composition of our primary players —
Mid- and Late 80s: DC and Seikaly. Owens. Strength.
Go to the 96 title run, and Wallace was a strong player.
03, Carmelo, Forth, McNeil. That's a lot of power. And even Warrick's game had strength.
Then we had Arinze and Jackson.
And Fab Melo. Big power. With CJ, Scoop, Triche, Dion...

And yet, the cliche about our program is that we recruit beanpoles who can get to the corner. Or, put them there way out of position (Marek).

We need strong players, who don't wilt when pressure is applied, but we keep getting underdeveloped yutes because they're supposed to be better suited to the zone.

The level of play and talent is down all over the NCAA—somehow—yet there are a ton of good players on even 'minor' programs. Competent players. Players with fully-developed bodies and fundamental skills. If we're not casting a wide enough net, what's the reason? Of late, we've been settling for family and friends of family. JAB has been very, very comfortable. Even getting Silent G and Bazeley's promise... how hard did JAB have to exert himself there? How many flights out of 'the corridor?'

Feels like we're just lazy and coasting and relying on specious archetypes that aren't actually the formulas for success.
Yup. The games that really stand out for me are Houston last year and Auburn this year.

Those teams were so much stronger and faster than us - it was like JV playing against Varsity.

Whether we won or lost, in the past we always had the horses to physically compete against anyone in the country. We were never physically overmatched in every way. If the other team was bigger and stronger, then we were faster and more athletic. If the other team was faster, then we were bigger and stronger. NEVER was the other team physically better in every single way.

Enough is enough.
 
We're targeting the wrong guards.

Easy to see the difference, when you watch some of these teams on the NCAA stage, and how impactful their guards are.

We've focused on the wrong atropines at least yard for a long time, decater to our defensive system. And now we seem to be emphasizing three-point shooting more than ball handling and the ability to create off the bounce for themselves and others.
Exactly, not emphasizing ball handling and quickness, which is much easier to find and replicate. Flynn and Ennis werent big and they worked out fine.

Looking for the next MCW, meaning they are 6'5. But its hard to find Pgs at that size, so they target shooting guards and try to convert them to PGs. Hasnt worked well, and then when they do find one is capable they botched it and he portals.
 
What we need is to do is figure out NIL and how to guarantee these kids some cash.
 
We're targeting the wrong guards.

Easy to see the difference, when you watch some of these teams on the NCAA stage, and how impactful their guards are.

We've focused on the wrong atropines at least yard for a long time, decater to our defensive system. And now we seem to be emphasizing three-point shooting more than ball handling and the ability to create off the bounce for themselves and others.
generally, one-dimensional players cant be featured stars, the needs of recruiting to the zone kinda make that more likely, unfortuantely...

would like to see more "basketball players" brought in instead of pieces that fit the zone a la chukwu...

at guard, need to be able to drive AND shoot AND play D. 3 point shooting without penetrating scoring guards is easily rendered toothless...its easy to see why 3 point shooters were brought in...previous guards/teams werent good enough shooters...but hard to understand why more versatile guards werent brought in...

magic johnson and penny hardaway are kinda rare players...but easy to see why a a player like MCW had so much success at SU...I think Quadir can be very impactful and thats why he was recruited...
 
Exactly, not emphasizing ball handling and quickness, which is much easier to find and replicate. Flynn and Ennis werent big and they worked out fine.

Looking for the next MCW, meaning they are 6'5. But its hard to find Pgs at that size, so they target shooting guards and try to convert them to PGs. Hasnt worked well, and then when they do find one is capable they botched it and he portals.
If you look at long term, big picture….it’s absolutely stunning how we dropped off at PG.

Pearl-Sherman-Autry-Lloyd-Sims-Hart-Griffin-McNamara-Flynn-Triche-Scoop-Ennis-MCW

vs.

Joseph-Gbinije-Gillon-Howard-Carey-Girard

30 years of mostly good-great PG play(I left out like 2 seasons where we had to “scrap” at the position)

vs.

8 years of mostly subpar play at PG, where the only guys who truly got the job done were a 5th year senior forward(it’s like if we had to put Billy Owens at PG or something) who was a great all around player playing out of position because we had no one else, and a 5th year grad transfer one year rental - and even with him we wasted the first 2 months of his one season here by trying Howard over and over.
 

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