Athletic on recruiting

[TheCusian]

Making a bowl game is a weak standard for success, and it’s only the second time in seven years that Dino has even done that.

Oh, God. We were ranked during the season. Frankly, you judge a season by the final ranking, not the ranking at some random point of the season.

Eh, SEC level aspirations w NE football not a good look

We are up against some systemic recruiting things here.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Eh, SEC level aspirations w NE football not a good look

We are up against some systemic recruiting things here.

It's foolish to think that in 2023 Syracuse getting to a bowl game every year is a weak standard of success. There is 20 years of evidence that state otherwise. One can certainly play remember when and bury your head in the sand but not going to change anything. 6 wins is the goal every year whether people like it or not and the AD has said as much, not just me posting it. If one can't see the challenges presently and ones the program faces going forward you have not been around very long.

Surely, it's all because Dino can't recruit

 

[chugg21]

Syracuse’s “ability” to recruit has sucked for well over TWO DECADES.

It’s hardly a Dino Babers thing.
It’s a Syracuse thing.

In fact, when you look at a list of the highest ranked croots we’ve landed since 2000, the vast majority of those were under Dino.

Well during that time his competition is the end of Coach P, GRob, Marrone briefly and Shafer. Sure would make since that a guy going into year 8 would have more than the others within those parameters.

 

[chugg21]

Eh, SEC level aspirations w NE football not a good look

We are up against some systemic recruiting things here.

I would hope that none of us are dumb enough that we have "SEC level aspirations". I would think most everyone connected to reality is hoping for 7-8 wins most years while also knowing there are going to be the occasional 4-5 win as well as 9 win seasons mixed in randomly as well. I/We just hope for a little more of those bowl eligible years then what Dino has done thus far with 4-8, 4-8, 10-3, 5-7, 1-10, 5-7, 7-6.

 

[AAM62]

Syracuse’s “ability” to recruit has sucked for well over TWO DECADES.

It’s hardly a Dino Babers thing.
It’s a Syracuse thing.

In fact, when you look at a list of the highest ranked croots we’ve landed since 2000, the vast majority of those were under Dino.

Yeah I don't know why people are shocked. Fact 1: most football talent is below the mason-dixon line. Fact 2: those kids aren't choosing to go to snowy cuse to play in front of 30k fans.

The only way it will change is if tons of money is being put into NIL to buy players. That won't happen either.

 

[CbusCuse]

It's foolish to think that in 2023 Syracuse getting to a bowl game every year is a weak standard of success. There is 20 years of evidence that state otherwise. One can certainly play remember when and bury your head in the sand but not going to change anything. 6 wins is the goal every year whether people like it or not and the AD has said as much, not just me posting it. If one can't see the challenges presently and ones the program faces going forward you have not been around very long.

Surely, it's all because Dino can't recruit

Totally agree. Best1 is one of the many fans that thinks many of us diehards are just burying our heads in the sand and we should demand better right now. Like its just that easy. Syracuse is not a program that can just get rid of Babers and bring in a stud Coach that will bring in all these recruits from everywhere to flock to Syracuse. This is not a situation where this is easily done quickly. We have inherent disadvantages built in trying to recruit to Syracuse. Anybody who has followed for a long time should know this. The only way we can improve this is though being consistent. I think Babers is finally at a point where he has been able to accumulate incrementally better football talent, depth, good coordinators, coaches that can be good talent developers, good relationships with recruiting territory HS coaches/programs, and just respect, to where we can succeed. He can now incrementally improve the perception of Syracuse football from bad, to kind of bad/mediocre, to mediocre, to mediocre/occasionally good to hopefully consistently pretty good. This is our path to getting better recruits. We've been bad for so long we have to get younger kids and fans as well as recruits to think positively about Syracuse football again. Its going to be a long process. I'm sure Wildhack feels the same. Now if we were to start seeing any slipping it would be time to pull the cord. I don't foresee that though right now. I think we are moving in the right direction. Honestly, if we had a couple more breaks in 2022 injury wise etc. it could have been a drastic step up from what we've seen in recent history.

I am a little disappointed we didn't have a little better recruiting class this year though. Recruits seeing us have 3 guys drafted this year along with another decent record in 2022 and 2023 should hopefully help with the next class though.

 

[JimBoston]

Syracuse’s “ability” to recruit has sucked for well over TWO DECADES.

It’s hardly a Dino Babers thing.
It’s a Syracuse thing.

In fact, when you look at a list of the highest ranked croots we’ve landed since 2000, the vast majority of those were under Dino.

According to 24/7, the top 15 all-time football recruits since 2000 (some of the older rankings are not as accurate) for Syracuse are from:

New York: 6
New Jersey: 4
Pennsylvania: 2
Massachusetts: 1
Maryland: 1
Michigan: 1

14 out of 15 are from the traditional recruiting footprint and only 2 were recruited by Babers (and both of them were from the recruiting footprint). For Syracuse to become a consistent winner, the recruiting in the traditional footprint needs to improve.

 

[anomander]

It's foolish to think that in 2023 Syracuse getting to a bowl game every year is a weak standard of success. There is 20 years of evidence that state otherwise. One can certainly play remember when and bury your head in the sand but not going to change anything. 6 wins is the goal every year whether people like it or not and the AD has said as much, not just me posting it. If one can't see the challenges presently and ones the program faces going forward you have not been around very long.

Surely, it's all because Dino can't recruit

This is pretty odd? I remember saying the exact same thing about a month ago and I was criticized up and down by the same few people for being too negative and not seeing the positives of the portal/NIL. So what is it? Everything is fine nothing to see here or we do indeed face challenges now and in the future.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This is pretty odd? I remember saying the exact same thing about a month ago and I was criticized up and down by the same few people for being too negative and not seeing the positives of the portal/NIL. So what is it? Everything is fine nothing to see here or we do indeed face challenges now and in the future.

hey I’m good with 6 wins as the expectation. I also believe Syracuse is a really tough spot to recruit for reasons discussed at nauseum. I’m not going to lose my mind when kids or coaches come and go due to portal, NIL or the transient nature of coaching college football. it happens everywhere and sure we took some body blows but made some hires, got some other kids and the season will start in August. it’s a 1 year roster, coaches and players. As I have said, it’s Dinos job to win 6 games a year and deal with the nonsense that is now college football, replacing coaches and players that will come and go on a yearly basis. I like Dino hope he meets the expectations but if he doesn’t I’m sure they will move on and the next coach can try and make sense of it. But as I said, he won’t be able to recruit here either according to most.

win 6 games keep your job, pretty cut and dry. Don’t care who comes or goes. I actually enjoy the banter of it all the comings and goings to be honest. Makes the off season much more interesting.

 

[TheCusian]

I would hope that none of us are dumb enough that we have "SEC level aspirations". I would think most everyone connected to reality is hoping for 7-8 wins most years while also knowing there are going to be the occasional 4-5 win as well as 9 win seasons mixed in randomly as well. I/We just hope for a little more of those bowl eligible years then what Dino has done thus far with 4-8, 4-8, 10-3, 5-7, 1-10, 5-7, 7-6.

I’d hoped for more too. There‘s only one true stinker in there though (2019). Year 1 doesn’t count. Year 2 was a good team that lost their QB in the non-portal era. Covid was weird. 2 years ago, we lost 3 or 4 games on the final drive.

I’m not saying it’s a solid case - but it’s not that far off from what you and most fans are saying should be the norm.

 

[TheCusian]

This is pretty odd? I remember saying the exact same thing about a month ago and I was criticized up and down by the same few people for being too negative and not seeing the positives of the portal/NIL. So what is it? Everything is fine nothing to see here or we do indeed face challenges now and in the future.

I think its both. Systemic challenges haven‘t gone away, but they are mitigated a bit by the portal. Plugging roster holes is the thing that hurt us the most and the portal expedites that.

 

[TheCusian]

According to 24/7, the top 15 all-time football recruits since 2000 (some of the older rankings are not as accurate) for Syracuse are from:

New York: 6
New Jersey: 4
Pennsylvania: 2
Massachusetts: 1
Maryland: 1
Michigan: 1

14 out of 15 are from the traditional recruiting footprint and only 2 were recruited by Babers (and both of them were from the recruiting footprint). For Syracuse to become a consistent winner, the recruiting in the traditional footprint needs to improve.

meh… I guess. I don’t think that’s a magical elixir that solves Syracuse football.

Very good at football and prob NFL draft picks on this year team:

1 MD
1 NC
1 FL
1 Canada

Pretty good QB NC
Pretty good WR FL

 

[shu 49]

Totally agree. Best1 is one of the many fans that thinks many of us diehards are just burying our heads in the sand and we should demand better right now. Like its just that easy. Syracuse is not a program that can just get rid of Babers and bring in a stud Coach that will bring in all these recruits from everywhere to flock to Syracuse. This is not a situation where this is easily done quickly. We have inherent disadvantages built in trying to recruit to Syracuse. Anybody who has followed for a long time should know this. The only way we can improve this is though being consistent. I think Babers is finally at a point where he has been able to accumulate incrementally better football talent, depth, good coordinators, coaches that can be good talent developers, good relationships with recruiting territory HS coaches/programs, and just respect, to where we can succeed. He can now incrementally improve the perception of Syracuse football from bad, to kind of bad/mediocre, to mediocre, to mediocre/occasionally good to hopefully consistently pretty good. This is our path to getting better recruits. We've been bad for so long we have to get younger kids and fans as well as recruits to think positively about Syracuse football again. Its going to be a long process. I'm sure Wildhack feels the same. Now if we were to start seeing any slipping it would be time to pull the cord. I don't foresee that though right now. I think we are moving in the right direction. Honestly, if we had a couple more breaks in 2022 injury wise etc. it could have been a drastic step up from what we've seen in recent history.

I am a little disappointed we didn't have a little better recruiting class this year though. Recruits seeing us have 3 guys drafted this year along with another decent record in 2022 and 2023 should hopefully help with the next class though.

I disagree. U can bring a 4 star kid here just like Pitt or Minny. We did this for 15 years. We were top 20 consistently. That’s what we are capable of and if u think we couldn’t be well then we can’t hire u. Lol. i kinda feel that Babers should use every person he has that can help him. Bears dad could have massively helped us in Florida. The coach we have on here in N. Carolina who spits out players like it’s their job. We don’t use these guys and why we don’t blows my f in mind honestly. Better recruiting and more wins gets Babers more money and maybe outta here faster. We should be recruiting at least top 30. It’s damn embarrassing we aren’t but Babers and his coaches seem to find some good gems though. Its the only reason I can think of for us to be where we are.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I disagree. U can bring a 4 star kid here just like Pitt or Minny. We did this for 15 years. We were top 20 consistently. That’s what we are capable of and if u think we couldn’t be well then we can’t hire u. Lol. i kinda feel that Babers should use every person he has that can help him. Bears dad could have massively helped us in Florida. The coach we have on here in N. Carolina who spits out players like it’s their job. We don’t use these guys and why we don’t blows my f in mind honestly. Better recruiting and more wins gets Babers more money and maybe outta here faster. We should be recruiting at least top 30. It’s damn embarrassing we aren’t but Babers and his coaches seem to find some good gems though. Its the only reason I can think of for us to be where we are.

Crazy Crazy post. Not sure where you see a path to a top 30 recruiting class in 2023 and moving forward. The math simply won't work there. You will soon have 32 SEC/ Big 10 schools. You can take out the bottom schools from those two conferences but still have FSU, Miami, Oregon, Baylor, TCU, Clemson, UNC, NC St, Utah. There are others as well.

Can recruiting get better? Sure it can but top 30 class is just crazy. There isn't a coach walking this earth that would take the job at Syracuse that could land a top 30 recruiting class here without some massive and I mean massive NIL program. I think Wildhack has made pretty clear that this is NOT how they intend to use the NIL $ anyway as it will go more towards kids that are currently enrolled at Syracuse. That said you will still lose kids every year

Playing the remember when game does no good. With regard to recruiting it's always going to be an uphill battle, you're bringing a knife to gunfight. The path forward is to find a way to keep as many current players with a better NIL program, continue to develop talent and continue to use the portal to find kids that we recruited out of high school that are looking for playing time and most likely unhappy with their spot on the depth chart of some factory school. Babers needs to work really hard here because said assistant who recruited these guys 2 years ago may no longer be here, Dino really needs to be HIGHLY involved as well as your most established assistants.

 

[qdawgg]

I always love the argument “if they tried a little harder or just did this….” As if nobody else had thought of that before or these coaches don’t already put in 12-16 hr days.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I always love the argument “if they tried a little harder or just did this….” As if nobody else had thought of that before or these coaches don’t already put in 12-16 hr days.

yeah, they just aren't tapping into the right pipelines!!!! what one is that? The same one that 80 other assistant coaches are trying to access as well. It's been like this for 20 years. After a point in time, I think we all must realize our place in the food chain and do the best with what your parameters are. Syracuse can still have some great seasons when we have great seniors but also some off years as well, IMO but I just don't ever see big sexy highly ranked recruiting classes in the current landscape. Football just doesn't mean as much in CNY as it does in other areas of the country and it shows

 

[TheCusian]

When a highly regarded 4* recruit at an elite school is looking for a landing spot and more playing time, we can provide that. That’s our path to 4* players. It’s not through HS. That’s where I’d grab high upside physical projects and solid program locker room guys

 

[IthacaBarrel]

When a highly regarded 4* recruit at an elite school is looking for a landing spot and more playing time, we can provide that. That’s our path to 4* players. It’s not through HS. That’s where I’d grab high upside physical projects and solid program locker room guys

Agreed and that is where some are optimistic that Syracuse can be successful recruiting in this area. No bells and whistles, kids want to see the depth chart, scheme, meet the coaches and get to work towards seeing the field because they are tired of not playing. The PS5 in every locker doesn't matter much anymore if these kids still think they have a shot to show their skills and play in the NFL.

 

[shu 49]

Crazy Crazy post. Not sure where you see a path to a top 30 recruiting class in 2023 and moving forward. The math simply won't work there. You will soon have 32 SEC/ Big 10 schools. You can take out the bottom schools from those two conferences but still have FSU, Miami, Oregon, Baylor, TCU, Clemson, UNC, NC St, Utah. There are others as well.

Can recruiting get better? Sure it can but top 30 class is just crazy. There isn't a coach walking this earth that would take the job at Syracuse that could land a top 30 recruiting class here without some massive and I mean massive NIL program. I think Wildhack has made pretty clear that this is NOT how they intend to use the NIL $ anyway as it will go more towards kids that are currently enrolled at Syracuse. That said you will still lose kids every year

Playing the remember when game does no good. With regard to recruiting it's always going to be an uphill battle, you're bringing a knife to gunfight. The path forward is to find a way to keep as many current players with a better NIL program, continue to develop talent and continue to use the portal to find kids that we recruited out of high school that are looking for playing time and most likely unhappy with their spot on the depth chart of some factory school. Babers needs to work really hard here because said assistant who recruited these guys 2 years ago may no longer be here, Dino really needs to be HIGHLY involved as well as your most established assistants.

I said or I thought I said that we should shoot for a top 30 recruiting class. I know we are no where near that. I see ur point but as a coach I couldn’t go to a place or work at a place I couldn’t improve drastically. I know nil deals and the money game but I think if u don’t expect success and demand it, u never will come close to it. Expectations are key here. We are on a path if we stay at our current pace to be a mid major down the road which means less people in seats, less money, and much lower overall budget. If we step up in next few years along with basketball we could be a good place for big ten or any new division formed or move up in acc which brings more money overall to a school that needs it. If u have a mental limitation on your job then u will never do better. Everyone that says u can’t be what we were is full of crap. We did it before and a lot of money is on the line so we better do it again.

 

[Wrinkle]

Do we really think consistently ranking in the Top 40 cannot be done? Because that's pathetic. I have to think the right staff could get it done.

 

[qdawgg]

Agreed and that is where some are optimistic that Syracuse can be successful recruiting in this area. No bells and whistles, kids want to see the depth chart, scheme, meet the coaches and get to work towards seeing the field because they are tired of not playing. The PS5 in every locker doesn't matter much anymore if these kids still think they have a shot to show their skills and play in the NFL.

What also benefits us in this scenario is some of these players are getting smoke/mirrors to go to some of these factory schools. Sellers might fall into this other than, it was also prob his dream school. Once they’re there and realize what it’s actually like, not what they were told while being recruited. These portal players are far more aware and knowledgeable about what’s really important than a player signing out of HS. When DB says, here at SU this is your path to playing time and the NFL (if that’s their trajectory). It’ll resonate with them more, IMO.

 

[anomander]

When a highly regarded 4* recruit at an elite school is looking for a landing spot and more playing time, we can provide that. That’s our path to 4* players. It’s not through HS. That’s where I’d grab high upside physical projects and solid program locker room guys

I get that but if we consistently lose our proven players that we developed to the Ohio St and LSU’s of the world I just don’t see where the net positive is? I would certainly say this year was a net negative and now seeing where those guys went and what they got I only see more guys leaving in the future. The worst part is those are the guys who would have been the veterans of the team and team leaders.

As for Babers I am actually fine with him as the HC. I actually think we should extend him to take the lame duck status off the table for end any negative recruiting. I don’t see a HC we can bring in that would dramatically change the program anyways. There is only 1 Primetime. I think stability goes a long way but we have to find a way to improve recruiting at least a little bit. I feel a little more confident that this current staff can be slightly better but judging by the quality of athlete at Jr day there was no name players there.

Overall I think an already difficult job is only going to get much harder.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I said or I thought I said that we should shoot for a top 30 recruiting class. I know we are no where near that. I see ur point but as a coach I couldn’t go to a place or work at a place I couldn’t improve drastically. I know nil deals and the money game but I think if u don’t expect success and demand it, u never will come close to it. Expectations are key here. We are on a path if we stay at our current pace to be a mid major down the road which means less people in seats, less money, and much lower overall budget. If we step up in next few years along with basketball we could be a good place for big ten or any new division formed or move up in acc which brings more money overall to a school that needs it. If u have a mental limitation on your job then u will never do better. Everyone that says u can’t be what we were is full of crap. We did it before and a lot of money is on the line so we better do it again.

Totally see your point but you can't get blood out of a rock either. You have to know the market and its limitations and maximize what you have to work with. I will say this, if they were to hire a new HC I certainly would want him to have an understanding of Syracuse football and how he would work around those limitations to a certain extent as well as maximize what Syracuse can offer. Too many times new coaches want the promotion, the HC gig and the payday but kind of go into it blind not having a real understanding of the program they are about to take over and by the time they do, they have already dug a hole. I am sure Hafley at BC is going through this right now. You try and compete with recruits that you feel you have a real shot with but the factories continue to beat you like a drum. It even took Marrone a couple of years to readjust, Dino as well. To be honest, it has to be a kick in the gonads to a certain extent.

But hey I appreciate the perspective even though I think it would take a miracle to get back to where we were 25 years ago.

 

[CuseGrad94]

Do we really think consistently ranking in the Top 40 cannot be done? Because that's pathetic. I have to think the right staff could get it done.

Look at the Top 40 in recruiting and see how many people look like us. Private school, NE, mediocre facilities in the arms race, not a ton of NIL dollars and a fan base that fills 75% of the stadium. I’m not saying dont shoot for top 40, but to say it’s “pathetic” if you aren’t there you aren’t being “realistic” about your deficiencies.

 

[shu 49]

Totally see your point but you can't get blood out of a rock either. You have to know the market and its limitations and maximize what you have to work with. I will say this, if they were to hire a new HC I certainly would want him to have an understanding of Syracuse football and how he would work around those limitations to a certain extent as well as maximize what Syracuse can offer. Too many times new coaches want the promotion, the HC gig and the payday but kind of go into it blind not having a real understanding of the program they are about to take over and by the time they do, they have already dug a hole. I am sure Hafley at BC is going through this right now. You try and compete with recruits that you feel you have a real shot with but the factories continue to beat you like a drum. It even took Marrone a couple of years to readjust, Dino as well. To be honest, it has to be a kick in the gonads to a certain extent.

But hey I appreciate the perspective even though I think it would take a miracle to get back to where we were 25 years ago.

I’m sure we could all use a miracle with this team. Yeah the next coach needs to know this and the geographic areas we need to hit hard. Only took Dino 7 years to figure it out.