Attendance. It's not just us...

[OrangePA]

maybe we should try approaches that don't preclude winning 9 in a row and might work in the absence of 9 game winning streaks

Again, that's my point.

In Philadelphia the fans will come to see a team that tries hard, plays an exciting style and wins now and then.

That is not the case in Syracuse.

In Syracuse the fans will come if the team wins a lot.

In my mind, there is nothing more fun than Syracuse Football in the Dome. The seats are all great. The competition is very solid - the place can get really loud. The campus is fun and it is major college football.

The games have a lot to offer.

Fans should be thankful that we have major college football - not many communities do.

 

[OrangePA]

network effects. it's fun to go to a basketball game because lots of other people go. it ain't to watch the game, it's to be a part of it.

football games there are no network effects because no one's there!

Fans go because the team wins - it's the place to be because of the winning.

The same thing happend in the early to mid 1970s with Syracuse Blazers Hockey - with Bob Costas doing the radio by the way.

The team won really big and the fans came to the War Memorial in droves - it was crazy.

 

[Millhouse]

Again, that's my point. In Philadelphia the fans will come to see a team that tries hard, plays an exciting style and wins now and then. That is not the case in Syracuse. In Syracuse the fans will come if the team wins a lot. In my mind, there is nothing more fun than Syracuse Football in the Dome. The seats are all great. The competition is very solid - the place can get really loud. The campus is fun and it is major college football. The games have a lot to offer. Fans should be thankful that we have major college football - not many communities do.

We don't know that because exciting style and winning have overlapped so much

 

[OttoinGrotto]

maybe we should try approaches that don't preclude winning 9 in a row and might work in the absence of 9 game winning streaks

Ding ding ding!

 

[rrlbees]

Sorry, just citing the facts. The football team has a ways to go - is on the way - and will sell out once it wins 9 or 10 games in a row - even if the games are low scoring and close - similar to what we are seeing now with the BB team.

Larger crowds yes. But you need to stop using the words sell out. We rarely did that.

 

[OttoMets]

'"If people can see the replay at home on TV, you can't give them a lesser experience in the stands," Purdue athletic director Morgan Burke said.'

That's like saying the Earth is round. Yet somehow SU has been unable to make strides in this area.

 

[OrangePA]

Ding ding ding!

Okay, Otto.

Lets hear your ideas.

How do we get fans in the Dome?

A wide open offense with lots of passing and yardage and scoring?

Is that the answer?

 

[OrangePA]

Larger crowds yes. But you need to stop using the words sell out. We rarely did that.

I think it can happen.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Okay, Otto.

Lets hear your ideas.

How do we get fans in the Dome?

A wide open offense with lots of passing and yardage and scoring?

Is that the answer?

I've mentioned all kinds of different things in this thread already.

aye yi yi

 

[Millhouse]

Okay, Otto.

Lets hear your ideas.

How do we get fans in the Dome?

A wide open offense with lots of passing and yardage and scoring?

Is that the answer?

Yes. I know where you're going with this ("what about 2012?!?!") so can we add one more stipulation? there needs to be some sort of trend over multiple seasons. i don't think people will catch on right away, like i wish they would've in 2012

we don't need to be great every year, but there needs to be enough of a pattern for someone who doesn't know much to say "the last few games the last few years i've gone to were entertaining, let's do it again"

there have been an inordinate amount of stinkers at the dome. 2011 was the big turnaround and most of the home games stunk (road games were ok) good chance someone popping in for a game here or there the last 10 years hasn't seen anything worthwhile, even when they're good

 

[OrangePA]

Yes. I know where you're going with this ("what about 2012?!?!") so can we add one more stipulations? there needs to be some sort of trend over multiple seasons. i don't think people will catch on right away, like i wish they would've in 2012

Ah, Millhouse it's fun with you.

Otto missed the set up, but you caught it.

So, if the team goes 7-5 for a number of years in a row but racks up Nassib numbers the Dome will sell out or come close?

I wish I could say that you're right but I don't think so.

 

[OrangePA]

I've mentioned all kinds of different things in this thread already.

aye yi yi

Sorry, I must have missed the innovations you posted.

Send them to me by PM - I honestly want to hear/read the ideas.

 

[Millhouse]

Ah, Millhouse it's fun with you.

Otto missed the set up, but you caught it.

So, if the team goes 7-5 for a number of years in a row but racks up Nassib numbers the Dome will sell out or come close?

I wish I could say that you're right but I don't think so.

that team won 8 games. i don't know about sellout (demography) but I think there'd be a big improvement if you could count on a top 20 offense every year (big if)

that was the formula when attendance was good. good offense, win 8 games.

 

[OrangePA]

that team won 8 games. i don't know about sellout (demography) but I think there'd be a big improvement if you could count on a top 20 offense every year (big if)

that was the formula when attendance was good. good offense, win 8 games.

The 2012 team won seven regular season games when Dome attendance was at stake.

I'll go with the idea that if the team wins eight to nines games and plays an offense similar to the offense played during the McNabb years, the Dome will sell 47,000 to 48,000 seats per game - as it did back then.

 

[Chip]

Yes they did and I'm talking about preferred seating where the stands remain 1/2 empty because people won't donate and single game buyers won't pay prorated prices.

I forget about the premium seating and the mess that it appears to be. I know this will never happen, but I'd love a sit down with Gross where he told me what he bases the pricing on, where it works out for them. Because it really is one of the few stadiums you'll see with so much empty on the sidelines and so much full in the end zone upper deck.

 

[Millhouse]

The 2012 team won seven regular season games when Dome attendance was at stake.

I'll go with the idea that if the team wins eight to nines games and plays an offense similar to the offense played during the McNabb years, the Dome will sell 47,000 to 48,000 seats per game - as it did back then.

season tickets matter a lot for this stuff so that team won zero games when season tickets were at stake. there has to be consistency over seasons.

that offense was top 20 offense in that era, so we're not really disagreeing.

 

[Chip]

Yes. I know where you're going with this ("what about 2012?!?!") so can we add one more stipulation? there needs to be some sort of trend over multiple seasons. i don't think people will catch on right away, like i wish they would've in 2012

Yeah, any year with offensive numbers like that is amazing, but when the trend is Crap-Crap-Mediocre-Mediocre-Record Breaking-Mediocre, you just can't use it to discredit the SU fan to SU offense relationship. No one saw that coming in 2012. And even within the season itself it was all over the place. 600 yards passing, then back to earth a bit, tough stretch with Minny, Pitt, Rutgers, then Pugh comes back and no one can stop our running game. It was all over the place and record breaking, but by the time things got into high gear again we were 2-4.

The McNabb years were perfect for attendance because right from his first game, you knew something was exciting was there. He wasn't a polished passer right away, but the way he made plays, you just knew he was the next great one. Got to enjoy him that year, and the next year, and the next year, and the next year.

Since then, the only time any of our QBs have really played well is their senior year.

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah, any year with offensive numbers like that is amazing, but when the trend is Crap-Crap-Mediocre-Mediocre-Record Breaking-Mediocre, you just can't use it to discredit the SU fan to SU offense relationship. No one saw that coming in 2012. And even within the season itself it was all over the place. 600 yards passing, then back to earth a bit, tough stretch with Minny, Pitt, Rutgers, then Pugh comes back and no one can stop our running game. It was all over the place and record breaking, but by the time things got into high gear again we were 2-4.

The McNabb years were perfect for attendance because right from his first game, you knew something was exciting was there. He wasn't a polished passer right away, but the way he made plays, you just knew he was the next great one. Got to enjoy him that year, and the next year, and the next year, and the next year.

Since then, the only time any of our QBs have really played well is their senior year.

yeah it's all qb. no matter what offense you run today, you gotta have a qb. su draws when they have a qb coming off a good year.

 

[Millhouse]

I forget about the premium seating and the mess that it appears to be. I know this will never happen, but I'd love a sit down with Gross where he told me what he bases the pricing on, where it works out for them. Because it really is one of the few stadiums you'll see with so much empty on the sidelines and so much full in the end zone upper deck.

maybe we can get some representative sample of what fans pay here and combine it with some pictures of the dome on game day. send it over to him. there's gotta be enough people with here with different price seats scattered around the dome. i don't know if there's an easier way to plug costs on to each section. i bet there are big cliffs where the cost of moving from one section to an adjacent section are very high

 

[Chip]

yeah it's all qb. no matter what offense you run today, you gotta have a qb. su draws when they have a qb coming off a good year.

I think the last time we had a QB returning coming off a good year (not necessarily for that QB, but the team) was 2002 with RJ. Unfortunately, he was benched by game 5.

I guess you could argue Nassib 2011 because it was a good season in 2010 (comparatively speaking). But not like people were lining up season tickets based on Nassib's 2010 performance.

The more I type about this, the more I want a freshman QB, either true or redshirt, to step up and be the best option.

 

[Millhouse]

I think the last time we had a QB returning coming off a good year (not necessarily for that QB, but the team) was 2002 with RJ. Unfortunately, he was benched by game 5.

I guess you could argue Nassib 2011 because it was a good season in 2010 (comparatively speaking). But not like people were lining up season tickets based on Nassib's 2010 performance.

The more I type about this, the more I want a freshman QB, either true or redshirt, to step up and be the best option.

yeah, i was thinking a returning qb coming off a good season of his own.

kid born that day is gearing up to get his drivers license this year What

 

[suloyalfan]

I know i am beating a dead horse (and setting myself up for a joke about raking leaves) but there is a lot more to do in the fall than there is in the winter.

Living in syracuse the temptation to "skip" a football game is pretty high if you get a 60 degree day in late october. I dont skip but i know a lot people who do. Winter i wouldnt miss a hoops game because there is nothing for me to do in the winter. Zero. I am not in the minority here either.

Wins and losses do matter for sure but time of year also does.

Agreed, but a lot more people show up if the team is 8-0, ranked #10 in the country, and playing #1 Florida State on that late October day. That would be regardless of weather or start time in my opinion.

 

[anomander]

There is a lag in attendance. You need to build confidence in fans. You do that with wins and fans follow. Marrone's teams did not equate to "winning program". I think a boring offense with lots of wins (and that likely means a good defense) will still bring fans. Fans like to feel good about having spent time watching the game. They feel good when their team wins the game. They feel good when they have confidence that their team can win each game. It took the '87 team to wake up the sleeping fan base but they still waited for a "winning program" before they trusted the program enough to regularly buy tickets.

I am not saying winning = capacity crowds. Maybe winning gets them to 95% and the other 5% comes with an exciting team.

I agree with a lot of this, and I think the attendance problem is just the face of the issue. I am actually shocked at just how little the whole community knows about the football program. The general knowledge, or lack thereof is pretty alarming. We will always have those core 25k that will show up no matter what, but I think the biggest obstacle is just getting people interested in the program again. I would say there is a good amount of casual fans, who will turn the game on Saturday if they can find it, and watch not really caring if we win or lose. It's not like basketball where you can go any place in the city and that's all people want to talk about. I learned this first hand at my job. I was in sales and would travel all around the county. Every account I went into all people could talk about was the hoops program, then i'd try and talk about the football program and people would look at me like i was talking about the Syracuse Chiefs. The most common statement i'd get is they suck (i have no teeth left from gritting them), and that's after 3 bowl wins. It furthers the point that not only do we need to win, but we need to win big, and if we can do it with an exciting offense, that will only help. Either way we look at it we have a long road ahead, even in our hometown, from a perception standpoint alone.

 

[xc84]

heres what i dont get...

for hoop theres what, about 15-20k good seats?? and the rest are all relatively crappy to absolutely Fn stupid to sit in. expecially when compared to a normal hoop arena.

.....

and if thats the case, then why the hell wont they show up for a couple of football games??

Not sure how many ways to say this but here's a try. People like to be affiliated with winners. They think it is a reflection of who they are. SU hoops known as winners. Odds are, you go to a game and you will see your team win. Football, not so much. Brand affiliation relies on having a product that is a winner that people want to be associated with. While diehard fans don't stop going to games, even they get discouraged with e.g. what we say in the first decade of this century in football.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Not sure how many ways to say this but he's a try. People like to be affiliated with winners. They think it is a reflection of who they are. SU hoops known as winners. Odds are, you go to a game and you will see your team win. Football, not so much. Brand affiliation relies on having a product that is a winner that people want to be associated with. While diehard fans don't stop going to games, even they get discouraged with e.g. what we say in the first decade of this century in football.

Birging and corfing