Bacon Saver...

[orange79]

Actually, I think you're a pretty good poster. (I don't pay close attention to these things, but you seem to make a lot of good points.) Just a criticism of your choice of argument (a rather common argument used to defend the coach on this board) in that post.

"Totally mismanaged" is -- in this non-coach's opinion -- an overstatement. But it'd be nice to talk about why that's the case rather than stooping to the ad hominem level and dismissing the claim entirely.

I guess that's my point - when you stoop to ridiculous hyperbole such as 'HOF coach totally mismanaged his bench' I tune out. Or respond the way I do. That's just me. Peace.

 

[two3zone]

No. My point was that I think blindly assuming that some kid who is parked on the bench will be a better player than the guys in the rotation simply by getting playing time is a mistake. And Gbinije was a prime example of that last night. He played 27 minutes and had an underwhelming performance. There is a good reason why, when everyone else is healthy, he is getting 10 minutes a game and not 27. Based on what we've seen in games, you really have no basis for saying that Roberson should be first guy off the bench over Gbinije. You are simply assuming that Roberson (or Patterson or Johnson) would be the better player if he got more playing time. And that is not a good reason to proclaim that Boeheim has mismanaged the bench this year. And, no, I was not screaming. Our starting small forward (and usually the biggest mismatch on the floor) was injured on the bench. Our lone shooter was having a dismal shooting night. Our backup center is no offensive threat and is still not 100%. We were basically playing 2.5 on 5 on offense last night. The one guy I was pi$$ed at was Xmas. He picked up two really stupid offensive fouls and, in so doing, rendered himself a non-factor. He really needs to play much smarter than that. Bottom line, this is a good, but not dominant team, especially when we are not 100% healthy. This team is not Kentucky '11 or 09' Carolina. I don't even think this team is as good as our 2010 (with Onuaku) or 2011 (with Fab Melo) teams. This is a team that, right now, could be playing in April or could be done by the end of the first weekend. I'm not screaming because I have simply ratcheted my expectations downward whereas I think some of you have not.

I couldn't have said this any better myself. Great post.

 

[richard levy]

The great thing about Boeheim, is that he wants to win every game, a bad result is that he goes with a core group that he trusts to do that. Since we have guaranteed a place in NCAA's, he could give more time to bench guys, but we might not win every game, and people would say we were losing a better seed. Every year we have this discussion. Personally, I appreciate the HOF coach. Lets enjoy the ride while we can

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Bacon bowl.

 

[dollarbill44]

Only JB knows for sure why the bench is so short. On the surface we as fans can question it but he could have reasons that none of us have any clue of.

Exactly. JB has shown that he will play freshmen if they are ready. A lot of people focus on the lack of offensive production from our starters as a reason to play the bench guys. JB looks at defense first. If a guy isn't playing good defense, he is not going to play any meaningful minutes for JB. The quick hook comes from playing bad defense or making plays counter to the flow of the offense.

JB does not tolerate mental errors, which is probably reason #1 that he has nearly 950 wins.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

JB does not tolerate mental errors from freshman as long as there is someone else on the bench who is more senior than the freshman player, regardless of the actual effect the error had on the flow of the game or if the older player is actually playing better that day, which is probably reason #1 that he has nearly 950 wins.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Fly Rodder]

You can't tell a good apple from a bad apple unless you're an apple.

 

[newmexicuse]

No. My point was that I think blindly assuming that some kid who is parked on the bench will be a better player than the guys in the rotation simply by getting playing time is a mistake.

And Gbinije was a prime example of that last night. He played 27 minutes and had an underwhelming performance. There is a good reason why, when everyone else is healthy, he is getting 10 minutes a game and not 27.

Based on what we've seen in games, you really have no basis for saying that Roberson should be first guy off the bench over Gbinije. You are simply assuming that Roberson (or Patterson or Johnson) would be the better player if he got more playing time. And that is not a good reason to proclaim that Boeheim has mismanaged the bench this year.

And, no, I was not screaming.

Our starting small forward (and usually the biggest mismatch on the floor) was injured on the bench.

Our lone shooter was having a dismal shooting night.

Our backup center is no offensive threat and is still not 100%.

We were basically playing 2.5 on 5 on offense last night.

The one guy I was pi$$ed at was Xmas. He picked up two really stupid offensive fouls and, in so doing, rendered himself a non-factor. He really needs to play much smarter than that.

Bottom line, this is a good, but not dominant team, especially when we are not 100% healthy.

This team is not Kentucky '11 or 09' Carolina. I don't even think this team is as good as our 2010 (with Onuaku) or 2011 (with Fab Melo) teams.

This is a team that, right now, could be playing in April or could be done by the end of the first weekend.

I'm not screaming because I have simply ratcheted my expectations downward whereas I think some of you have not.

Great arguments for why we shouldn't develop a bench. Yup, if JB does it that way then it is obviously correct. Why risk having a bench player outside of the 7 man rotation who might actually be able to help.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Great arguments for why we shouldn't develop a bench. Yup, if JB does it that way then it is obviously correct. Why risk having a bench player outside of the 7 man rotation who might actually be able to help.

Actually, it is considering that you are making assumption that any of the three freshmen would be more productive than G and should be in the rotation despite the fact that you have almost never seen them play.

G is actually the only first-year non-starter who has gotten enough playing time for anyone who doesn't see practice day-in and day-out you to be able to have a reasonable opinion on.

In fact, I respect your statement that G should start over Cooney a helluva lot more than your statement than any of the three frosh would bring more to the table than G does or that any of them should be in the rotation.

At least you have seen Cooney and G play enough extended minutes in important games to be able to have a reasoned opinion.

 

[newmexicuse]

Actually, it is considering that you are making assumption that any of the three freshmen would be more productive than G and should be in the rotation despite the fact that you have almost never seen them play.

G is actually the only first-year non-starter who has gotten enough playing time for anyone who doesn't see practice day-in and day-out you to be able to have a reasonable opinion on.

In fact, I respect your statement that G should start over Cooney a helluva lot more than your statement than any of the three frosh would bring more to the table than G does or that any of them should be in the rotation.

At least you have seen Cooney and G play enough extended minutes in important games to be able to have a reasoned opinion.

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth and attributing statements to me that I have not made ? This is at least the second time in this thread that you have done that. I have never said any of the three frosh would bring more to the table than does G nor have I ever said that any of them should be in the rotation other than Roberson. The furthest I have gone is to say I would prefer Roberson at SF over G at that position. After all Roberson is a forward and G really is a guard. I have said that I would like to see Roberson in the rotation; he has shown me enough to make me believe he could and would help if given a regular role. I have never said that I want to see BJ or Buss in the rotation, only that I would like to see if they might help. I do not know if they might help or not, but my point is that nobody else really knows that including Jimmy because they have not been given any sort of a chance. And since we clearly need help at the 2G why not try to figure out if a new guy could contribute.

Just please explain to me why I have to watch Trevor miss ten straight treys and shoot around 30% in conference play and why we can't even get a glimpseof what the next man up might do ????

 

[two3zone]

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth and attributing statements to me that I have not made ? This is at least the second time in this thread that you have done that. I have never said any of the three frosh would bring more to the table than does G nor have I ever said that any of them should be in the rotation other than Roberson. The furthest I have gone is to say I would prefer Roberson at SF over G at that position. After all Roberson is a forward and G really is a guard. I have said that I would like to see Roberson in the rotation; he has shown me enough to make me believe he could and would help if given a regular role. I have never said that I want to see BJ or Buss in the rotation, only that I would like to see if they might help. I do not know if they might help or not, but my point is that nobody else really knows that including Jimmy because they have not been given any sort of a chance. And since we clearly need help at the 2G why not try to figure out if a new guy could contribute.

Actually G is a natural 3.

 

[pfister1]

Actually G is a natural 3.

Not in our system he isn't.

 

[AJDavCuse]

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth and attributing statements to me that I have not made ? This is at least the second time in this thread that you have done that. I have never said any of the three frosh would bring more to the table than does G nor have I ever said that any of them should be in the rotation other than Roberson. The furthest I have gone is to say I would prefer Roberson at SF over G at that position. After all Roberson is a forward and G really is a guard. I have said that I would like to see Roberson in the rotation; he has shown me enough to make me believe he could and would help if given a regular role. I have never said that I want to see BJ or Buss in the rotation, only that I would like to see if they might help. I do not know if they might help or not, but my point is that nobody else really knows that including Jimmy because they have not been given any sort of a chance. And since we clearly need help at the 2G why not try to figure out if a new guy could contribute.

Just please explain to me why I have to watch Trevor miss ten straight treys and shoot around 30% in conference play and why we can't even get a glimpseof what the next man up might do ????

Speaking as a guy who has wanted more Roberson and then followed him around while he was in last night, I thought he looked lost. Not knowing where to be and mistiming a play or two lost. That's stuff he should know cold from practice. We won't see him again unless we have health problems and I'm fine with that after last night.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth and attributing statements to me that I have not made ? This is at least the second time in this thread that you have done that. I have never said any of the three frosh would bring more to the table than does G nor have I ever said that any of them should be in the rotation other than Roberson. ?

The HOF coach has totally mismanaged his bench this season IMHO. I said it when we were winning and I re-iterate it now. This should have been a deep team with many parts going nine deep. Instead, I see no bona fide third forward and I see often pathetic 2g play when we have two high energy talented kids sitting on the bench not even getting a sniff. And that even assumes that BJ couldn't help this season & he might well have been able to contribute as a role playing trey threat.

As for Buss, I have never said he should be part of the rotation, I have only said I want to see more. I have only seen very, very few minutes of this kid. the only conclusion I have about him is that he is very high energy and that he would bring a spark to the court, hopefully more for us then for them. Our overall 2g play is clearly sub-par, at least it has been since the start of conference play when trevor has cooled down, it needs to improve somehow some way.

9. The broken record strikes again, but I can't help but think Buss can help. Our overall 2g play has been atrocious of late.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. These are your posts. You are advocating for more playing time for all three freshmen. If you don't think they bring more to the rotation than G, then who is it exactly whose playing time you would like to reduce to get these guys on the court?

I have never said that I want to see BJ or Buss in the rotation, only thke to see if they might help. I do not know if they might help or not, but my point is that nobody else really knows that including Jimmy because they have not been given any sort of a chance. And since we clearly need help at the 2G why not try to figure out if a new guy could contribute.

If you are going to tell me that JB has no idea who can contribute and who cannot, then there is really no point in continuing this discussion.

That is a Blue Curtain- or Igor-esque statement.

 

[newmexicuse]

The HOF coach has totally mismanaged his bench this season IMHO. I said it when we were winning and I re-iterate it now. This should have been a deep team with many parts going nine deep. Instead, I see no bona fide third forward and I see often pathetic 2g play when we have two high energy talented kids sitting on the bench not even getting a sniff. And that even assumes that BJ couldn't help this season & he might well have been able to contribute as a role playing trey threat.

As for Buss, I have never said he should be part of the rotation, I have only said I want to see more. I have only seen very, very few minutes of this kid. the only conclusion I have about him is that he is very high energy and that he would bring a spark to the court, hopefully more for us then for them. Our overall 2g play is clearly sub-par, at least it has been since the start of conference play when trevor has cooled down, it needs to improve somehow some way.

9. The broken record strikes again, but I can't help but think Buss can help. Our overall 2g play has been atrocious of late.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. These are your posts. You are advocating for more playing time for all three freshmen. If you don't think they bring more to the rotation than G, then who is it exactly whose playing time you would like to reduce to get these guys on the court?



If you are going to tell me that JB has no idea who can contribute and who cannot, then there is really no point in continuing this discussion.

That is a Blue Curtain- or Igor-esque statement.

You just don't get it. Just because I say that I want to see more of somebody, it does NOT mean that I am advocating they be part of the rotation. The point is to SEE MORE of the player and then decide what their role might or might not be. You can have a guy who can give some minutes here or there wo being part of the regular rotation - this is how Roberson is being used right now.

Also, as I said earlier in reference to Roberson getting more minutes, a guy doesn't have to be almost equal to the guy he is subbing in for to be of help. A big part of why I advocate more minutes for Roberson is not because I think he is totally ready right now, but because CJ & Grant will be better overall if they play a little bit less. Also, I think Roberson would improve rapidly if given some more run. Maybe, I am wrong on that take, but even the way he plays the way he is right now, he is good enough to go in for a few minutes here or there to give a guy a blow.

As for JB, IMHO, JB's coaching style is tight rotations. He knows who gives him the best chance to win the game he is presently coaching. I have no criticism of him in that regard. But his March record is not great considering the overall status of the program. One title and four FF's in almost 4 decades hardly compares to other elite programs. That is why we are not at the same level as a Duke or a Kansas. I think he would have had greater March success over the years had he been willing to have a greater utilization of his rosters. A good example was just a few years ago when AO got hurt. That team probably couldn't have won a title wo AO, but if the next man up was better prepared we probably get by Butler & at least get to the FF. Same when Fab got himself disqualified.

Point is - stuff happens and you need to have as many players as possible ready for when that occurs.

I will predict the ending for this year's team - sooner or later there will be a game when Cooney goes (or stays) cold. We will be in one of these 57 to 55 types of battles & at the end it won't be our guy who makes the big play or gets the favorable call. We will get taken down before we should. Just maybe in an alternative universe, if JB saw that Trevor was off, he puts in Buss or BJ for a spark & one of those guys get's hot at the right time. Certainly, they could not do worse than missing ten straight treys against a medicore foe.

If that makes me an Igor or a Blue Curtain in your world then let the conversation end here.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

You just don't get it. Just because I say that I want to see more of somebody, it does NOT mean that I am advocating they be part of the rotation. The point is to SEE MORE of the player and then decide what their role might or might not be. You can have a guy who can give some minutes here or there wo being part of the regular rotation - this is how Roberson is being used right now.

Also, as I said earlier in reference to Roberson getting more minutes, a guy doesn't have to be almost equal to the guy he is subbing in for to be of help. A big part of why I advocate more minutes for Roberson is not because I think he is totally ready right now, but because CJ & Grant will be better overall if they play a little bit less. Also, I think Roberson would improve rapidly if given some more run. Maybe, I am wrong on that take, but even the way he plays the way he is right now, he is good enough to go in for a few minutes here or there to give a guy a blow.

As for JB, IMHO, JB's coaching style is tight rotations. He knows who gives him the best chance to win the game he is presently coaching. I have no criticism of him in that regard. But his March record is not great considering the overall status of the program. One title and four FF's in almost 4 decades hardly compares to other elite programs. That is why we are not at the same level as a Duke or a Kansas. I think he would have had greater March success over the years had he been willing to have a greater utilization of his rosters. A good example was just a few years ago when AO got hurt. That team probably couldn't have won a title wo AO, but if the next man up was better prepared we probably get by Butler & at least get to the FF. Same when Fab got himself disqualified.

Point is - stuff happens and you need to have as many players as possible ready for when that occurs.

I will predict the ending for this year's team - sooner or later there will be a game when Cooney goes (or stays) cold. We will be in one of these 57 to 55 types of battles & at the end it won't be our guy who makes the big play or gets the favorable call. We will get taken down before we should. Just maybe in an alternative universe, if JB saw that Trevor was off, he puts in Buss or BJ for a spark & one of those guys get's hot at the right time. Certainly, they could not do worse than missing ten straight treys against a medicore foe.

If that makes me an Igor or a Blue Curtain in your world then let the conversation end here.

This is actually a post I could respond to.

You clearly state that these are all your opinions.

And, for each opinion, you give your reasoning.

In addition, the tone of the post is much different than making a harsh, blanket statement such as, "JB has mismanaged his bench this season"..

I disagree with most of what you say here (big surprise that) but this post at least lets me know where you coming from and we can just agree to disagree.

And this particular post is clearly not Igor or Blue Curtain-esque.

 

[newmexicuse]

This is actually a post I could respond to.

You clearly state that these are all your opinions.

And, for each opinion, you give your reasoning.

In addition, the tone of the post is much different than making a harsh, blanket statement such as, "JB has mismanaged his bench this season"..

I disagree with most of what you say here (big surprise that) but this post at least lets me know where you coming from and we can just agree to disagree.

And this particular post is clearly not Igor or Blue Curtain-esque.

I will agree my statement on JB had a bit of hyperbole in it. It would be fairer for me to say that JB may not have managed the bench as well as possible this season.