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KaiserUEO

2018 Cali Winner: Receiving TDs
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#52
If you don’t realize how good Mookie Betts is in baseball I don’t get it.
He is by far the 2nd best player in baseball right now and would have 2 MVPs if not for Trout’s insanity.
Good for him.

Let’s talk in 5 years and if he’s still doing what he did last year, then I won’t bat eye to seeing his name on a list like this.

I’ll likely be flinching in my seat when he comes up, but for now he’s just nomar.
 

OrangeDW

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#53
:confused:

3 times MVP before 2000
7 times top 5 MVP before 2000

View attachment 151641

He was a great fielder with a very accurate arm before he went steroids.

And now I pull from my reading cabinet the Bill James New Historical Baseball Abstract (published in 2000) which said he was the best Left Fielder of the 90's, the best player in 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1995, and the 16th best player of all time (ranked during 2000 season).

So only 1 slightly above good year before 2000? I don't think so
From my experience, in the 90s the general consensus was that Bonds and Griffey were the two best players of the decade. And while Griffey was the better pure home run hitter at the time, a spectacular center fielder, and much more well liked by the fans, most of the real “baseball guys” seemed to favor Bonds as being a little better.
 

KaiserUEO

2018 Cali Winner: Receiving TDs
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#57
Oh for the love of Pete, I just realized kimbrell is on there too.

Murph & Sully over Sam’s at the Cask & Flagon set this up.
 

jncuse

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#58
Oh for the love of Pete, I just realized kimbrell is on there too.

Murph & Sully over Sam’s at the Cask & Flagon set this up.
David Ortiz over Frank Thomas is also a bit of a head scratcher. Thomas had a career WAR of 74 vs David Ortiz 55. (WAR isn't everyhing) but their career stat lines are similar, and Thomas' peak value was a bit better than Ortiz as well.
 

OrangeDW

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#59
I think the pitchers are the hardest to rank. You can make a legit argument for any possible order of 1-5 with those 5 guys IMO.
 

KaiserUEO

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#60
David Ortiz over Frank Thomas is also a bit of a head scratcher. Thomas had a career WAR of 74 vs David Ortiz 55. (WAR isn't everyhing) but their career stat lines are similar, and Thomas' peak value was a bit better than Ortiz as well.
Yeah, now they’re trying to push Arias as the greatest DH ever.

Please, all those other guys were good to great ball players before ending their career at DH.

Even Edgar played 300 more games in the field than that strroid aided compiler.

And actually this whole thing may be set up fto make Arias look good.

Total Boston con job.
 

Alsacs

I am statboy because I use stats to form opinions
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#61
David Ortiz over Frank Thomas is also a bit of a head scratcher. Thomas had a career WAR of 74 vs David Ortiz 55. (WAR isn't everyhing) but their career stat lines are similar, and Thomas' peak value was a bit better than Ortiz as well.
Kimbrel has been a better closer than Jensen who is 2.
Gagne and Eckersley should be considered.
Ortiz was a pure DH. Frank Thomas split a lot of more his career at 1b.
 

OrangeDW

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#62
Kimbrel has been a better closer than Jensen who is 2.
Gagne and Eckersley should be considered.
Ortiz was a pure DH. Frank Thomas split a lot of more his career at 1b.
If we just took players peaks, Eric Gagne has an argument for being a “5”. Problem is his peak was 3 years, and that was it.
 

donniesyracuse

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#64
Yeah, now they’re trying to push Arias as the greatest DH ever.
It is a dubious honor, kind of like being the all-time minor league home run leader. Certainly any great hitting position player would be a great DH. I also believe that most (not all) great starting pitchers would be great closers..
 

OrangeDW

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#65
Im just going to be honest, puzzled how Maddux is the 5. I could name 5 better pitchers
It’s certainly arguable.

Mid 90s Maddox was an absolute master. Him and Johnson were consider 1-2 at the time. And that’s also a time where Clemens was petering out and a mediocre pitcher...before he magically(lol) became great again.

But while Maddox had a very strong career besides the mid 90s, Clemens was better in the 80s-early 90s. Johnson had a dominant run through the early 00’s. Pedro’s 97-03 run was arguably just as good as Maddox’s 93-98. Very close. And don’t even get me going on Kershaw. It’s awfully tough.
 

Trueblue25

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#73
Halladay was very good, but not on the same level as Maddox or those other guys IMO.
2 cy youngs, perfect game, post season no hitter, 8x all star. Considering he did that through the tail end of the steroid era up until the end of his time with the phillies idk
 
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