Baseball hof thread

br801

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I forgot he even played for Philly. Should definitely go in as a Blue Jay, he played most of his career there.
I think this is his family's choice and reflects what Roy had expressed to them.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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The same all that elected Gaylord Perry and celebrated his cheating, won't vote for guys who used stuff many, if not most others, were using. Ridiculous.
 

dasher

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The 3-4, sometimes 5 and the occasional 6 toughest outs there is.

Sit and watch fielding and everyone else take BP.

Sit till you hit in the 1st.

Sit till you hit against a now pathetically tired P in the 4th.

Sit till you hit against a crappy middle guy in the 6th or 7th.

Sit till you come up in the 8th or 9th.

Maybe the game is in the line, quite often it’s not, but since you haven’t been in the heat or cold, and you don’t want to hit the showers like all the guys playing ‘both ways’ you don’t ‘give up’ the AB and you do something with it.

Big flucking whoop.
I'm not disagreeing. but at least they hit in every game. The "closer" comes in with a 3 run lead. Gives up 2 runs and gets his "save". if they were any good, they would have been starters. We all know that. They failed starter goes to the pen. Big flucking whoop. Sit on their @ss for 8 innings. Total joke.
 

KaiserUEO

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I'm not disagreeing. but at least they hit in every game. The "closer" comes in with a 3 run lead. Gives up 2 runs and gets his "save". if they were any good, they would have been starters. We all know that. They failed starter goes to the pen. Big flucking whoop. Sit on their @ss for 8 innings. Total joke.
I’m on the Goose side of the debate when it comes to closers, but Mo should be in. Hoffman and Lee Smith?? Well...

As for the DH, it’s already a position of a gone by era. Teams aren’t waisting a roster spot on a 1 dimensional player anymore. The DH is where everyday ‘real’ players go to get a ‘half day’ off...or it’s where old guys go to extend their careers a bit. I can’t get behind everyday DH for the HOF.

Regardless, just put Bonds and Clemens I’m so we can lift the vail off the whole era and just count the on field production, caught or not caught.

They all did something...
 

dasher

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I’m on the Goose side of the debate when it comes to closers, but Mo should be in. Hoffman and Lee Smith?? Well...

As for the DH, it’s already a position of a gone by era. Teams aren’t waisting a roster spot on a 1 dimensional player anymore. The DH is where everyday ‘real’ players go to get a ‘half day’ off...or it’s where old guys go to extend their careers a bit. I can’t get behind everyday DH for the HOF.

Regardless, just put Bonds and Clemens I’m so we can lift the vail off the whole era and just count the on field production, caught or not caught.

They all did something...
I have to think that J.D. Martinez did more to help his team win a world title than any closer did last year.
 

MSOrange

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I’m on the Goose side of the debate when it comes to closers, but Mo should be in. Hoffman and Lee Smith?? Well...

As for the DH, it’s already a position of a gone by era. Teams aren’t waisting a roster spot on a 1 dimensional player anymore. The DH is where everyday ‘real’ players go to get a ‘half day’ off...or it’s where old guys go to extend their careers a bit. I can’t get behind everyday DH for the HOF.

Regardless, just put Bonds and Clemens I’m so we can lift the vail off the whole era and just count the on field production, caught or not caught.

They all did something...
Mo should absolutely be in and God knows I'm not a Yankee fan. Think of how many closers flame out of the position after a couple seasons? He was the best for 20 years and never once did the Yankees seriously have to consider removing him from the role that I know of
 

KaiserUEO

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I have to think that J.D. Martinez did more to help his team win a world title than any closer did last year.
Your backup to the utility middle infielder did more to help his team win the world title last year too.
 

Fat tire 13

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I'm not disagreeing. but at least they hit in every game. The "closer" comes in with a 3 run lead. Gives up 2 runs and gets his "save". if they were any good, they would have been starters. We all know that. They failed starter goes to the pen. Big flucking whoop. Sit on their @ss for 8 innings. Total joke.
It's not just about saves. Yes, most saves are easy to get. But every time I go down this path of thinking, I go back and look at the post season stats

141 innings
8-1 win/loss (the loss on a broken bat blooper)
.70 ERA
.76 WHIP
11 earned runs allowed

All against superior competition in high pressure situations. Those are stats that are out of the world, and 141 innings are a huge sample size. That is why he is unanomous

Compare to Craig Kimberl, who some Boston homers say is better. Kimbrel allowed 7 runs in 2018 alone. There is no comparison
 

dasher

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Your backup to the utility middle infielder did more to help his team win the world title last year too.
he wasn't the back up to the middle infielder
 

dasher

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It's not just about saves. Yes, most saves are easy to get. But every time I go down this path of thinking, I go back and look at the post season stats

141 innings
8-1 win/loss (the loss on a broken bat blooper)
.70 ERA
.76 WHIP
11 earned runs allowed

All against superior competition in high pressure situations. Those are stats that are out of the world, and 141 innings are a huge sample size. That is why he is unanomous

Compare to Craig Kimberl, who some Boston homers say is better. Kimbrel allowed 7 runs in 2018 alone. There is no comparison
You singled out Mo. I didn't. I said closer.
 

Alsacs

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It's not just about saves. Yes, most saves are easy to get. But every time I go down this path of thinking, I go back and look at the post season stats

141 innings
8-1 win/loss (the loss on a broken bat blooper)
.70 ERA
.76 WHIP
11 earned runs allowed

All against superior competition in high pressure situations. Those are stats that are out of the world, and 141 innings are a huge sample size. That is why he is unanomous

Compare to Craig Kimberl, who some Boston homers say is better. Kimbrel allowed 7 runs in 2018 alone. There is no comparison
Nobody would say Kimbrel is better than Rivera.
Not a single real Red Sox fan.
Rivera’s most impressive stat is he gave up less runs in the postseason 11 than men/women who have walked on the moon 12.

Closers are overrated though. Rivera is the exception though as when he came in the game was over unless it was Boston at the end of the his career and that was only because they had so many plate appearances against the guy they could atleast adjust a little. He was only dominant against Boston and not automatic.
 

Fat tire 13

But I really prefer IPAs
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Well it is a HOF thread, so the conversation gravitates towards Mo. Guess the Red Sox fans I interact with are not representative of the whole. Which is comforting. We can disagree a bit on the true value of a closer, but don't think we are that far off. Much like the DH, I think unless you are truly exceptional, your value is not as high as it is for other positions. Mo is one of those exceptions, and was preemptively making the argument to any who would imply he didn't deserve the 100%. In 5 years it likely won't matter, because there will likely be 2-3 more who get 100% now that the barrier has been broken now.
 

KaiserUEO

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he wasn't the back up to the middle infielder
I know, but he played almost a 3rd of his games with a glove on.

Which is more in 1 year than Arias played with a glove in 10 combined.
 

KaiserUEO

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Who is arias?

Is that Ortiz?
David Arias was the clean ball player for the Twins.

After he found steroids and signed with the redsux, he changed his name to David Ortiz.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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I have to think that J.D. Martinez did more to help his team win a world title than any closer did last year.
4 chances, maybe 5, to do something, and only gets a hit 30% of those times.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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I’m on the Goose side of the debate when it comes to closers, but Mo should be in. Hoffman and Lee Smith?? Well...

As for the DH, it’s already a position of a gone by era. Teams aren’t waisting a roster spot on a 1 dimensional player anymore. The DH is where everyday ‘real’ players go to get a ‘half day’ off...or it’s where old guys go to extend their careers a bit. I can’t get behind everyday DH for the HOF.

Regardless, just put Bonds and Clemens I’m so we can lift the vail off the whole era and just count the on field production, caught or not caught.

They all did something...
Is closer a position in baseball? Yes. Then the best at that position should be in the hall. They can only do the job they are asked to do. Rivera was the best at it, for a career. No brainier.
 

Knicks411

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Is closer a position in baseball? Yes. Then the best at that position should be in the hall. They can only do the job they are asked to do. Rivera was the best at it, for a career. No brainier.
I'm fine with Rivera going in, kinda wish he wasn't the first 100% guy, but closer isn't really a position is it? Like it's not listed on a lineup card/roster. Just pitcher.

Like does that mean the best pinch hitter should be int he HOF? Or best loogy?
 

donniesyracuse

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I'm fine with Rivera going in, kinda wish he wasn't the first 100% guy, but closer isn't really a position is it? Like it's not listed on a lineup card/roster. Just pitcher.

Like does that mean the best pinch hitter should be int he HOF? Or best loogy?
The best middle reliever should be in the hall of fame.

The best gunner on special teams should be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame too. Ha
 

donniesyracuse

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I think guys like Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson would have been incredibly dominant closers. Can you imagine if they only had to worry about pitching one inning and they could focus on throwing two pitches? Of course, it would have been a waste of their talents.
 

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