Being (perennially) irrelevant sucks

[Newhouser]

The demise of the Big East was our demise.

FSU seems to be doing ok.

 

[JDubbin]

To each their own, but if it was up to me we would get rid of Dayton and just go back to 64 teams.

College basketball is the most forgiving sport in America. You can go winless the entire year, but if you get hot in a 4-5 day stretch in your conference tourney, you're in. I just don't see the need to water down the field with more 17-13/18-12 teams that had every chance to improve their resume but didn't get it done.

The NCAA Tournament, by far my favorite sports event on the planet (specifically the first Thursday & Friday) would be a better overall product if it was regular season conference champions who were awarded the the automatic bid, for the very reason you mention above. When it’s proven during the regular season, instead of a 3-5 game conference tourney, the consistency & quality of the 68 improves...

 

[CuseCPT]

But we have football also, so in all likelihood we would have ended up in the American like UConn and Louisville briefly if we weren't in the ACC.

LOL so we needed to drop down and be a mid major so JB could keep winning.

Believe me, I am not saying we should have stayed in the Big East, but I do think our decline would have been less apparent there.

E: But who knows, really. Maybe recruiting would have gone differently for better or worse. One thing I do know is that our decline wasn't caused by the move.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Believe me, I am not saying we should have stayed in the Big East, but I do think our decline would have been less apparent there.

Same as if SU joined the Patriot League.

 

[Alsacs]

Believe me, I am not saying we should have stayed in the Big East, but I do think our decline would have been less apparent there.

E: But who knows, really. Maybe recruiting would have gone differently for better or worse. One thing I do know is that our decline wasn't caused by the move.

If we joined the Big East it doesn’t fix our problems.

Our decline isn’t because we play NC State instead of Seton Hall.
Or we play Florida State instead of Marquette.

We would middle of the table team in the Big East.

 

[CuseCPT]

If we joined the Big East it doesn’t fix our problems.

Our decline isn’t because we play NC State instead of Seton Hall.
Or we play Florida State instead of Marquette.

We would middle of the table team in the Big East.

Agree to disagree. Their middle table (5-8 in conf standings): Xavier, SJU, Providence, G'town
ACC middle table: Clemson, UNC, Ga Tech, Duke

I know RPI is kind of outdated but by RPI we're better than all but Xavier from those teams. We're only better than Duke in ACC 5-8 and they beat the doors off us.

I think ACC is stronger at the top and middle, but ACC has not 1, but 3 DePauls at the bottom.

Again our decline is not because of the change, the change just magnified it.

 

[Scooch]

I like to catch a little bit of Wizards games here and there. Last night I was watching the 4th quarter of Wizards/Celtics and it was just Beal/Westbrook/Tatum/Kemba going back and forth making super athletic play after another, but my wife asks me "why don't you watch this instead of college basketball? It's so much faster and more entertaining."

I felt like Hyman Roth. "This is the business I've chosen."

This is precisely why outside of SU games, I watch the NBA. College hoops is... not good.

 

[Scooch]

The ACC vs. Big East recruiting argument continues to seem silly to me.

SU has played, does play, and will always play, nearly 2/3rds of its games in Syracuse, NY. We still play in Boston, and Pittsburgh, and NYC, and DC, as often as we did when we were in the Big East.

If bi-annual games in Providence, Hartford, North Jersey, and Philly are why recruiting has tailed off, then I profusely apologize for all the disparaging things I've said about the Friars and Seton Hall over the years.

Spoiler: our recruiting has been subpar lately because our best recruiter, by far, left. And our near-octogenarian head coach doesn't pound the pavement like he once did. It's not rocket science.

 

[Cuserulz]

I don't think the move to the ACC caused our downward slide, I think they both just happened to happen at around the same time. That said, staying in the Big East might have masked it better because we would not have been playing as many good teams every year. The middle and bottom of the ACC is a lot better than the middle and bottom of the Big East.

Is that why Marquette spanked UNC at home by nearly 20 points?

 

[Cuserulz]

The demise of the Big East was our demise.

So, what you are saying is that everything that is happening to the program has been self inflicted due to greed!

 

[Cusefan0307]

The ACC vs. Big East recruiting argument continues to seem silly to me.

SU has played, does play, and will always play, nearly 2/3rds of its games in Syracuse, NY. We still play in Boston, and Pittsburgh, and NYC, and DC, as often as we did when we were in the Big East.

If bi-annual games in Providence, Hartford, North Jersey, and Philly are why recruiting has tailed off, then I profusely apologize for all the disparaging things I've said about the Friars and Seton Hall over the years.

Spoiler: our recruiting has been subpar lately because our best recruiter, by far, left. And our near-octogenarian head coach doesn't pound the pavement like he once did. It's not rocket science.

Only thing I would add is I don’t think our issues would be fully fixed by recruiting. I think we run an outdated system.

 

[nyucuse]

No it wasn’t. Notre Dame has won 32 games since coming to this conference.

Completely agree. The talk of the ACC causing the issues is nonsense. We have 1) a 76 year old coach, 2) were under sanctions, 3) lost our top recruiter.

Not that difficult to comprehend. It all hinges on who the next hire is. Same story for pretty much every program. But SU does have the benefit of being one of the top brands in the sport which should attract very talented candidates. Now its up the JW to make that right hire...

 

[MikeSU02]

We are a 40 degree day, for those of you that watch The Wire. And we have been having way too many 40 degree days (years).

 

[Eric15]

If bi-annual games in Providence, Hartford, North Jersey, and Philly are why recruiting has tailed off, then I profusely apologize for all the disparaging things I've said about the Friars and Seton Hall over the years.

And also, it shouldn't be hard to sell recruits on the opportunity to play at Cameron or the Dean Dome, some of the most high-profile venues in the sport.

 

[Cusesky8214]

There's only a handful of posters that actually believe our decline in recruiting is because of our move from the Big East to the ACC. Its one of the worst takes on here IMO and if they truly believe that then they dont follow the ins and outs of recruiting at all.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There's only a handful of posters that actually believe our decline in recruiting is because of our move from the Big East to the ACC. Its one of the worst takes on here IMO and if they truly believe that then they dont follow the ins and outs of recruiting at all.

There’s some in the local media as well.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

There's only a handful of posters that actually believe our decline in recruiting is because of our move from the Big East to the ACC. Its one of the worst takes on here IMO and if they truly believe that then they dont follow the ins and outs of recruiting at all.

There are posters who think we never should have left the ECAC.

 

[Day2]

JB could take a nap on the bench during a game and you would still find a way to find an excuse for him.

JB has become lazy with recruiting (among other things). Our recruiting should be better, despite the built-in challenges of being in the ACC. What are you talking about?

 

[Day2]

Notre Dame has had more success in the ACC than the Big East in baskeball.
They won a ACC tournament and got to back to back Elite 8’s.

The ACC is more top heavy than the Big East but the middle and bottom are worse.

Recruiting won’t be as difficult as you imply when we have a lot of talent in our recruiting region. If we had a style of play that was appealing or actually even tried to recruit some of these kids we would be better.
I can list guys we have screwed up on and you won’t care.

Depends on how you look at it. Those tournament runs (which helped me win some money, BTW) eclipsed anything Brey/ND did in the tourney while in the Big East. On the other hand, he never had a losing season in the Big East and his highest rankings (both during the season and post-season) were in the Big East. While the overall records are comparable, the program is heading in the wrong direction, agreed?

 

[pearl31]

Depends on how you look at it. Those tournament runs (which helped me win some money, BTW) eclipsed anything Brey/ND did in the tourney while in the Big East. On the other hand, he never had a losing season in the Big East and his highest rankings (both during the season and post-season) were in the Big East. While the overall records are comparable, the program is heading in the wrong direction, agreed?

I do think ND fanbase would be as or more justified as SU fanbase in using the "stale, time for a change" argument right now

 

[Alsacs]

Depends on how you look at it. Those tournament runs (which helped me win some money, BTW) eclipsed anything Brey/ND did in the tourney while in the Big East. On the other hand, he never had a losing season in the Big East and his highest rankings (both during the season and post-season) were in the Big East. While the overall records are comparable, the program is heading in the wrong direction, agreed?

Notre Dame had a losing conference seasons in the Big East. They just won enough tomato cans to not be under .500 overall.
The 2006 BET I remember the Irish were the 12 seed when we won the BET.

Notre Dame is struggling the last 2 years but it’s not because of the ACC they had more success in those 2 Elite 8 runs while in the ACC than they had in Big East.

The current ACC is easier than the 2005-2013 Big East.

Our problems are because of our HC.
Mike Brey is reaching his hot seat.

Pitt sucks because their fans ran off Jamie Dixon.
Louisville has been competitive practically every season since joining.

 

[Day2]

Notre Dame was doing great until the bottom fell out two years ago. Pittsburgh was winning games still until Dixon left because he wasn’t winning in the tournament. Louisville is still winning games. Day2‘s reasoning has no evidence to back it up.

So you agree the bottom fell out?

Pitt never finished ahead of us in the ACC under Dixon. That program is a mess and it doesn’t look like Capel - with his conference connections and past success - can save it.

Louisville is set up better geographically for the ACC. They thrived in the Big East because of Pitino.

No evidence? What about BC? They were at their peak when they left the Big East. Had a great first year in the ACC (like us) and now they’re a complete joke.

Miami hasn’t been the same in football since joining the ACC.

Virginia Tech has been better in basketball, but getting worse in football. The ACC makes more sense for them geographically, though.

 

[Day2]

Notre Dame had a losing conference seasons in the Big East. They just won enough tomato cans to not be under .500 overall.
The 2006 BET I remember the Irish were the 12 seed when we won the BET.

Notre Dame is struggling the last 2 years but it’s not because of the ACC they had more success in those 2 Elite 8 runs while in the ACC than they had in Big East.

The current ACC is easier than the 2005-2013 Big East.

Our problems are because of our HC.
Mike Brey is reaching his hot seat.

Pitt sucks because their fans ran off Jamie Dixon.
Louisville has been competitive practically every season since joining.

Brey had two losing conference seasons in the Big East. He’s already doubled that in the ACC. Like you said, the current ACC is easier, yet ND is struggling in ways they never struggled in the Big East under Brey.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Generalization

losing begets losing winning begets winning. When it comes to recruiting.
and we’ve been losing

 

[Day2]

There's only a handful of posters that actually believe our decline in recruiting is because of our move from the Big East to the ACC. Its one of the worst takes on here IMO and if they truly believe that then they dont follow the ins and outs of recruiting at all.

It’s not the sole reason, it’s part of the reason. JB’s laziness and Hop leaving are also part of the reason, and I don’t have a problem with anyone arguing those are bigger reasons.

We’ll see what happens with the next coach. I have a feeling people are going to be blaming JB for anything that goes wrong long after he’s gone.