BG's defense

[sdhall01]

HCSS had an entirely different offensive system, and to an extent defense. It was CB's D with Sprinkles of SS. His expectations were similar and he went 7-6 in year 1.

Expectations aren't a bad thing.

I'm expecting results in year 1, at the very least offensively anyway.

Expectations are fine, but these expectations are completely unreasonable. You cannot tell a coach that is taking over a perennially bad team that he has to win 6 games or he's a failure. That's the kind of mentality that runs good coaches out of town. Whether we like it or not, HCDB is taking over a dumpster fire on offense. Considering HCDB is an offensively minded coach, it's going to take a couple of years for us to see results. We might be more fun to watch next year, but I do not expect more than 4 wins.

 

[sdhall01]

Because I think his offensive system is a lot better.

I agree, but he does not have people to effectively run his system yet.

 

[bnoro]

Expectations are fine, but these expectations are completely unreasonable. You cannot tell a coach that is taking over a perennially bad team that he has to win 6 games or he's a failure. That's the kind of mentality that runs good coaches out of town. Whether we like it or not, HCDB is taking over a dumpster fire on offense. Considering HCDB is an offensively minded coach, it's going to take a couple of years for us to see results. We might be more fun to watch next year, but I do not expect more than 4 wins.

How is improving by 2 wins with a weak non-conference schedule with a team that isn't losing too many key starters "completely unreasonable"?

If he had his QB throwing for almost 5,000 yards in his first season at Bowling Green why can't he do it here?

I don't think winning 50% of your games is in any way, shape, or form an unreasonable expectation.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Expectations are fine, but these expectations are completely unreasonable. You cannot tell a coach that is taking over a perennially bad team that he has to win 6 games or he's a failure. That's the kind of mentality that runs good coaches out of town. Whether we like it or not, HCDB is taking over a dumpster fire on offense. Considering HCDB is an offensively minded coach, it's going to take a couple of years for us to see results. We might be more fun to watch next year, but I do not expect more than 4 wins.

You don't make a coaching move if the expectation next year is 4 wins. That wouldn't make much sense from an administrative standpoint.

6 or the season is a failure imo.

 

[djorange1989]

I don't think 6 wins is unreasonable but I will be pleasantly surprised if we get to 6 next year. The schedule isn't brutal but Notre Dame, Clemson, FSU, Lville are all a handful. USF and Uconn are better than we thought when scheduled. BC, Pitt are both road games. I have high hopes for the new staff and we do have a lot of starters back. So I am optimistic but still think it will take a bit more time.

 

[sdhall01]

You don't make a coaching move if the expectation next year is 4 wins. That wouldn't make much sense from an administrative standpoint.

6 or the season is a failure imo.

Yes you do, of course you do. You make a coaching change because you don't think that the current coach is cutting it and you don't want to give him a chance to rebuild. You bring in a new coach if you have somebody that you think will be able to rebuild the team. HCDB can rebuild the team, but rebuilding doesn't happen over the course of the off season. It happens over the course of the year. HCSS didn't get the same luxury because he was not hired to rebuild the team; he was hired for continuity purposes. I don't care if we only win 1 game next year. I have expectations for the long term, not the short term.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I agree, but he does not have people to effectively run his system yet.

If Dungey can play he does.

 

[sdhall01]

How is improving by 2 wins with a weak non-conference schedule with a team that isn't losing too many key starters "completely unreasonable"?

If he had his QB throwing for almost 5,000 yards in his first season at Bowling Green why can't he do it here?

I don't think winning 50% of your games is in any way, shape, or form an unreasonable expectation.

Because they aren't his players, so it does not matter that he isn't losing many key starters. Why does everybody think that our current players will fit in HCDB's system. Hell, with everything we've seen, who even wants our current players. This is not the kind of thing that can be swapped out without missing a beat. Head coaches are not assembly line parts.

 

[sdhall01]

If Dungey can play he does.

Ok, he has Dungey, Ishmael, and Fredericks that could probably learn any system. The rest of our WRs are tweeners because we invested so heavily on H-Backs. It will take time to get his team in place.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Ok, he has Dungey, Ishmael, and Fredericks that could probably learn any system. The rest of our WRs are tweeners because we invested so heavily on H-Backs. It will take time to get his team in place.

I think some guys that barely played will look big time under Babers.

 

[sdhall01]

I think some guys that barely played will look big time under Babers.

We can hope so, but again, we can't just assume that our current players will thrive in HCDB's system. He knows what he wants, and his system works. We should give him time to implement that.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Yes you do, of course you do. You make a coaching change because you don't think that the current coach is cutting it and you don't want to give him a chance to rebuild. You bring in a new coach if you have somebody that you think will be able to rebuild the team. HCDB can rebuild the team, but rebuilding doesn't happen over the course of the off season. It happens over the course of the year. HCSS didn't get the same luxury because he was not hired to rebuild the team; he was hired for continuity purposes. I don't care if we only win 1 game next year. I have expectations for the long term, not the short term.

We had 4 wins with the staff in place and a new offensive system this past season. How is it logical to lower expectations post-firing? To me, it's not. I believe we would have won 6 with the former staff so I'm certainly not going to move backwards like it's a coaches right to fail in year 1. Nonsensical to me.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We can hope so, but again, we can't just assume that our current players will thrive in HCDB's system. He knows what he wants, and his system works. We should give him time to implement that.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I think we're going to be significantly better.

I should add, both of Babers stops as HC have been for just two seasons with rosters he has inherited. He has NEVER had perfect fits on his roster. Didn't stop him from winning.

 

[sdhall01]

We had 4 wins with the staff in place and a new offensive system this past season. How is it logical to lower expectations post-firing? To me, it's not. I believe we would have won 6 with the former staff so I'm certainly not going to move backwards like it's a coaches right to fail in year 1. Nonsensical to me.

Because sometimes you have to move backwards before you can move forwards. Sometimes you don't have the right personnel for a system that will be better in the long-run, and you need to get the proper players for your system. I don't understand how this is that difficult of a concept. We were built to play a certain style of football, and we won four games with that style of football. HOWEVER, we are going to take those players—players who were recruited and trained to play our former style of football and only won four games—and we are going to make them play a completely DIFFERENT style of football. Their experience with HCSS is not only irrelevant but will probably be a hindrance because HCDB and HCSS emphasized and expected different things. As such, we could easily take a step back for the next two years, so we can take several steps forward in the next several years. I'm fine with winning one or two games next year and the year after if it means we win seven games in year three and nine games in year four and onward. I felt the same when HCDM took over for G-Rob.

 

[TheCusian]

Because sometimes you have to move backwards before you can move forwards. Sometimes you don't have the right personnel for a system that will be better in the long-run, and you need to get the proper players for your system. I don't understand how this is that difficult of a concept. We were built to play a certain style of football, and we won four games with that style of football. HOWEVER, we are going to take those players—players who were recruited and trained to play our former style of football and only won four games—and we are going to make them play a completely DIFFERENT style of football. Their experience with HCSS is not only irrelevant but will probably be a hindrance because HCDB and HCSS emphasized and expected different things. As such, we could easily take a step back for the next two years, so we can take several steps forward in the next several years. I'm fine with winning one or two games next year and the year after if it means we win seven games in year three and nine games in year four and onward. I felt the same when HCDM took over for G-Rob.

The HCGR > HCDM is not close the HCSS > HCDB

 

[sdhall01]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I think we're going to be significantly better.

I should add, both of Babers stops as HC have been for just two seasons with rosters he has inherited. He has NEVER had perfect fits on his roster. Didn't stop him from winning.

I think we're going to be significantly better in the long run. However, I'm willing to wait so we can be significantly better in the long run. Until then, I feel like this picture adequately sums up our conversation thus far.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Because sometimes you have to move backwards before you can move forwards. Sometimes you don't have the right personnel for a system that will be better in the long-run, and you need to get the proper players for your system. I don't understand how this is that difficult of a concept. We were built to play a certain style of football, and we won four games with that style of football. HOWEVER, we are going to take those players—players who were recruited and trained to play our former style of football and only won four games—and we are going to make them play a completely DIFFERENT style of football. Their experience with HCSS is not only irrelevant but will probably be a hindrance because HCDB and HCSS emphasized and expected different things. As such, we could easily take a step back for the next two years, so we can take several steps forward in the next several years. I'm fine with winning one or two games next year and the year after if it means we win seven games in year three and nine games in year four and onward. I felt the same when HCDM took over for G-Rob.

Look, you're way over thinking this. I appreciate that you're trying to set realistic expectations, but you're setting the bar too low.

We should be providing Babers with the most talented roster he's had as a head coach. Yes, he is jumping a level of competition but what he does works - and, it works with what he has inherited.

We're going to be immediately better.

 

[sdhall01]

The HCGR > HCDM is not close the HCSS > HCDB

I mean, it's not really that far either. Just because we weren't punting on third down doesn't mean that we're a good football team. We had some flashes, but having some flashes does not mean we're good or even decent.

 

[Crusty]

Look, you're way over thinking this. I appreciate that you're trying to set realistic expectations, but you're setting the bar too low.

We should be providing Babers with the most talented roster he's had as a head coach. Yes, he is jumping a level of competition but what he does works - and, it works with what he has inherited.

We're going to be immediately better.

I hope you are right. Myself I am more than willing to be patient.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I hope you are right. Myself I am more than willing to be patient.

I'm also willing to be patient. I just don't think it will be needed.

Cards on the table - we were so young on defense, and so incompetent on offense, we're going to improve based on nothing more than players maturing on defense and having a master tactician in charge of the offense. Babers says it isn't until year two until the offense really hums. That's fine - his year one offense is still in the top fifth of all offenses.

We're going to be fine.*

*Assuming we have a QB and some defensive ends and interior defensive linemen.

 

[Scooch]

I love that some of the people who were insistent that Shafer get a 4th year because he needed time are ready to declare 2016 a failure if the new guy doesn't win 6. Because he doesn't need time, clearly, when he's inheriting a 3.5 win team.

What happened to all of the "I don't need wins, I just need to see PROGRESS" posts from this time last year?

 

[sdhall01]

I'm also willing to be patient. I just don't think it will be needed.

Cards on the table - we were so young on defense, and so incompetent on offense, we're going to improve based on nothing more than players maturing on defense and having a master tactician in charge of the offense. Babers says it isn't until year two until the offense really hums. That's fine - his year one offense is still in the top fifth of all offenses.

We're going to be fine.*

*Assuming we have a QB and some defensive ends and interior defensive linemen.

That's the thing: I agree with you. I think we're going to be fine. In fact, if you made me pick our 2016 record, I'd probably say 5-7 or 6-6. However, I'm never going to use the word "failure" to describe a new coach's first couple of seasons unless he is a continuity hire.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

I love that some of the people who were insistent that Shafer get a 4th year because he needed time are ready to declare 2016 a failure if the new guy doesn't win 6. Because he doesn't need time, clearly, when he's inheriting a 3.5 win team.

What happened to all of the "I don't need wins, I just need to see PROGRESS" posts from this time last year?

Those same people (me being one of them) said if HCSS was given a 4th year than 6 wins would be the minimum expectation. Those supporting HCSS ouster after year 3 are now are saying be patient with the new coach. Cant have it both ways and I'm not buying it. Imo, 6 wins and a bowl or 2016 is a failure no matter how many ypg we average.

 

[money3189]

I am just as optimistic as anyone about the offense but we can't underplay the learning curve. SD hall made a good point about those H Backs. Those guys are gonna have to learn how to run routes and catch like a true WR. Not just stick slides and wheel routes out of the backfield. that will take time. The tempo needs to be taught, conditioning need to be implemented. We will have 3 new lineman. Babers knows what it takes for his offense to click. I just hope we can squeek out a few wins until we put full throttle.

 

[Scooch]

Those same people (me being one of them) said if HCSS was given a 4th year than 6 wins would be the minimum expectation. Those supporting HCSS ouster after year 3 are now are saying be patient with the new coach. Cant have it both ways and I'm not buying it. Imo, 6 wins and a bowl or 2016 is a failure no matter how many ypg we average.

That's ridiculous. Of course you can have it both ways. Expectations are simply different for a coach in year 1 than a coach in year 3 or 4. Shafer was the one who screwed up his OC hire and had to reset everything in year 3. That's on him.

Personally I think Babers is going to be better in year 1 than Shafer was in year 3. But if he wins 5 it's not a "failure".

But I know that there are a few folks who are bigger fans of a coach than the program. I get it.