BG's defense

[TheCusian]

Those same people (me being one of them) said if HCSS was given a 4th year than 6 wins would be the minimum expectation. Those supporting HCSS ouster after year 3 are now are saying be patient with the new coach. Cant have it both ways and I'm not buying it. Imo, 6 wins and a bowl or 2016 is a failure no matter how many ypg we average.

If our YPP is up into the top third, I'd be ecstatic.

 

[Scooch]

If our YPP is up into the top third, I'd be ecstatic.

No, no, no. NOW it's only about wins. BEFORE it was about "progress".

Get with it, man.

 

[rrlbees]

Expectations are fine, but these expectations are completely unreasonable. You cannot tell a coach that is taking over a perennially bad team that he has to win 6 games or he's a failure. That's the kind of mentality that runs good coaches out of town. Whether we like it or not, HCDB is taking over a dumpster fire on offense. Considering HCDB is an offensively minded coach, it's going to take a couple of years for us to see results. We might be more fun to watch next year, but I do not expect more than 4 wins.

Unreasonable? Wanna know what's unreasonable? Having no expectations and every 3-4 years saying the new coach needs 4 years. That's the expectation of losers.

And I didn't say Babers would be a failure, I expect big things from him. But the season would be a failure. Just like most have the last 14 years.

Keep hoping for those 4 win seasons to define success.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

That's ridiculous. Of course you can have it both ways. Expectations are simply different for a coach in year 1 than a coach in year 3 or 4. Shafer was the one who screwed up his OC hire and had to reset everything in year 3. That's on him.

Personally I think Babers is going to be better in year 1 than Shafer was in year 3. But if he wins 5 it's not a "failure".

But I know that there are a few folks who are bigger fans of a coach than the program. I get it.

I've missed two home games in the last 15 years so I'd have to give you a No on your conclusion paragraph.

I've been told for the last 6 months Wins and Losses are all that matters in the end so that should be the measure. All the other stuff is talk and fluff. Win or you're a failure. That's the paradigm in CFB in 2015. HCDB doesn't get a pass because of his MAC Championships.

 

[orange79]

I've missed two home games in the last 15 years so I'd have to give you a No on your conclusion paragraph.

I've been told for the last 6 months Wins and Losses are all that matters in the end so that should be the measure. All the other stuff is talk and fluff. Win or you're a failure. That's the paradigm in CFB in 2015. HCDB doesn't get a pass because of his MAC Championships.

Who said HCDB gets a pass because of his MAC Championships? Of course you need to win. But no one is getting a pass because of what they did in the past. Unless you count installing an entirely new system (which they have used in their past). That is the pass that HCDB gets.

 

[sdhall01]

Unreasonable? Wanna know what's unreasonable? Having no expectations and every 3-4 years saying the new coach needs 4 years. That's the expectation of losers.

And I didn't say Babers would be a failure, I expect big things from him. But the season would be a failure. Just like most have the last 14 years.

Keep hoping for those 4 win seasons to define success.

OHHHHHHHHHH! I get it. You're trolling. Listen, repeating the same fallacy over and over again does not accomplish anything. Let's just save our breath and call it quits. Having said that, because arguing on the internet is fun, people were wrong when they said Shafer should get four years. They are NOT wrong when they say HCDB gets four years. It's because there is a distinction between those two coaches. The distinction is, HCSS was a continuity hire and he was coming off HCDM who turned the program around and HCDB is a rebuilding coach that needs time to build his program. Are you following me this far?

Breaking it down another way, HCSS wasn't allowed to have time to build his team because he already had his team and players and system in place. You know that because he was supposed to provide, get this, CONTINUITY.

On the other hand, HCDB is not here to provide continuity. He is here to rebuild. Rebuilding is different from continuity, you see. One implies that you're bad and need to change to become good again, and the other implies that you're good and want to continue on the same path. AS SUCH, he gets four years before I'll consider anything he does a failure. I have expectations of winning 9 games a season, so losing will not be tolerated forever. However, sometimes it's better to tolerate a little losing in the short term so you can win a lot in the long run.

 

[Scooch]

I've missed two home games in the last 15 years so I'd have to give you a No on your conclusion paragraph. I've been told for the last 6 months Wins and Losses are all that matters in the end so that should be the measure. All the other stuff is talk and fluff. Win or you're a failure. That's the paradigm in CFB in 2015. HCDB doesn't get a pass because of his MAC Championships.

He gets time to install his brand new system. Just like Shafer got time to install his. The latter failed, such is this game, it happens, even to good guys.

I hope we win enough to go to a bowl next year. I think we will. If we don't, then I hope we do in 2017.

Determining what is or isn't a "failure" isn't all that interesting to me.

 

[RoatanCuse]

4 years? This is the fourth straight coach someone has said that. There is no need to wait 4 years to show success. I expect a bowl game next year as a minimum. If not it's a failure.

Old timer here. Hey, with this thinking we show the early door to both Ben Schwartzwalder (national championship) and coach MacPherson (11-0-1). A bit more patience, if you please. Rebuilds are inherently more difficult than continuity.

 

[Chip]

The 4 years was my main point that I responded too. But after a season of many coaching mistakes and the numerous injuries and the youth, I do expect a bowl game. Heck, we really weren't that far away this year and I consider this year as having been a failure. So yes, regardless of the coaching change...again, I do expect 6-6. That's my minimum expectation every year.

I guess. I mean I agree that 6 wins isn't some major accomplishment. So I'm probably talking to myself more than anything (to actually be patient). I just think we are changing to much. Right down to Hicks, who was bulletproof with other changes. I don't want to use the words total rebuild because there are some young talented players on this team, as we all acknowledge. But it's a total overhaul and I just don't think it's going to be clicking as early as we'd like.

It's a home run hire though and good times are coming. If we get to a bowl game in year 1, even more gravy.

OOC will be tougher than people want to admit and I just don't know that we have enough talent in all the right places on day 1. Some weak positions that need reinforcements.

Can't wait to watch it all unfold though.

 

[rrlbees]

Because sometimes you have to move backwards before you can move forwards. Sometimes you don't have the right personnel for a system that will be better in the long-run, and you need to get the proper players for your system. I don't understand how this is that difficult of a concept. We were built to play a certain style of football, and we won four games with that style of football. HOWEVER, we are going to take those players—players who were recruited and trained to play our former style of football and only won four games—and we are going to make them play a completely DIFFERENT style of football. Their experience with HCSS is not only irrelevant but will probably be a hindrance because HCDB and HCSS emphasized and expected different things. As such, we could easily take a step back for the next two years, so we can take several steps forward in the next several years. I'm fine with winning one or two games next year and the year after if it means we win seven games in year three and nine games in year four and onward. I felt the same when HCDM took over for G-Rob.

You know, it's still football. You have to block and tackle. You have to run and pass and catch. It's a new offense in the sense of the the type of plays and the pace. But we have talent and we have smart kids. It may not be running at 100% right off the bat but we aren't starting from ground zero. I don't think it'll take 4 years to see success, but if for some reason we are going into year 4 and haven't had any success I can assure you the fan base will go ape sheet. It'll also go ape sheet if we have a 1 win year next year. There's such a thing as giving a staff a chance, it's another to have zero expectations and be happy with absolute failure.

Having said that, I think we are 7-5 next year and be very happy.

 

[rrlbees]

OHHHHHHHHHH! I get it. You're trolling. Listen, repeating the same fallacy over and over again does not accomplish anything. Let's just save our breath and call it quits. Having said that, because arguing on the internet is fun, people were wrong when they said Shafer should get four years. They are NOT wrong when they say HCDB gets four years. It's because there is a distinction between those two coaches. The distinction is, HCSS was a continuity hire and he was coming off HCDM who turned the program around and HCDB is a rebuilding coach that needs time to build his program. Are you following me this far? Breaking it down another way, HCSS wasn't allowed to have time to build his team because he already had his team and players and system in place. You know that because he was supposed to provide, get this, CONTINUITY. On the other hand, HCDB is not here to provide continuity. He is here to rebuild. Rebuilding is different from continuity, you see. One implies that you're bad and need to change to become good again, and the other implies that you're good and want to continue on the same path. AS SUCH, he gets four years before I'll consider anything he does a failure. I have expectations of winning 9 games a season, so losing will not be tolerated forever. However, sometimes it's better to tolerate a little losing in the short term so you can win a lot in the long run.

I'm trolling? Lol. You say lets just call it quits and then go on for several more paragraphs? Lol.

Like every season regardless of coach, anything less than a bowl game is a failure. Not a difficult concept.

 

[money3189]

Im going to look at this from both sides. Lets not think its impossible to win with other coaches recruits, We see it all the time. Coaches take over and start winning relatively soon. Its not often but it happens. I am hoping we are one of those cases.

 

[rrlbees]

Old timer here. Hey, with this thinking we show the early door to both Ben Schwartzwalder (national championship) and coach MacPherson (11-0-1). A bit more patience, if you please. Rebuilds are inherently more difficult than continuity.

Don't twist my words. Where did I say fire the coach after 1 season.

 

[rrlbees]

That's ridiculous. Of course you can have it both ways. Expectations are simply different for a coach in year 1 than a coach in year 3 or 4. Shafer was the one who screwed up his OC hire and had to reset everything in year 3. That's on him. Personally I think Babers is going to be better in year 1 than Shafer was in year 3. But if he wins 5 it's not a "failure". But I know that there are a few folks who are bigger fans of a coach than the program. I get it.

People that are fans of the program and not a coach should always expect a bowl game. 6-6 isn't some miracle working. No season should be considered a success when not making a bowl regardless of the coach or what year he's in. It's always my criteria. And a failure of a season doesn't mean fire the coach.

 

[sdhall01]

I'm trolling? Lol. You say lets just call it quits and then go on for several more paragraphs? Lol.

Like every season regardless of coach, anything less than a bowl game is a failure. Not a difficult concept.

I my defense, I did acknowledge that arguing on the internet is fun.

 

[rrlbees]

I my defense, I did acknowledge that arguing on the internet is fun.

I call it water cooler stuff.

 

[orangepassion]

Dino has a proven track record. He gets a free pass from me next year.

 

[rrlbees]

Dino has a proven track record. He gets a free pass from me next year.

Did you know his track record shows he was 2 games over .500 both times going into a new HC job and introducing his offense? The 2nd year he went well over that.

 

[orangepassion]

Did you know his track record shows he was 2 games over .500 both times going into a new HC job and introducing his offense? The 2nd year he went well over that.

Yes, but I'm not gonna panic if he doesn't do the same year 1 here

 

[rrlbees]

Yes, but I'm not gonna panic if he doesn't do the same year 1 here

I don't think anyone will panic. That would be extreme.

 

[orangepassion]

I don't think anyone will panic. That would be extreme.

I guess calling Babers 1st season a failure at 6-6 seems pretty strong to me

 

[rrlbees]

I guess calling Babers 1st season a failure at 6-6 seems pretty strong to me

I didn't say 6-6 would be a failure.

 

[orangepassion]

I didn't say 6-6 would be a failure.

My mistake. You said below 6-6 would be a failure.

 

[rrlbees]

My mistake. You said below 6-6 would be a failure.

Yes. If we don't make a bowl, which means 5-7 or worse (typically) would be a failure as far as the season goes. Not that Babers is a failure or that he should be let go after one season like some posters tried to twist it into. This season was a failure. Last season was a failure.

 

[Crusty]

Yes. If we don't make a bowl, which means 5-7 or worse (typically) would be a failure as far as the season goes. Not that Babers is a failure or that he should be let go after one season like some posters tried to twist it into. This season was a failure. Last season was a failure.

Exactly. A season failure is not a program failure. While I think it will be difficult for a variety of reasons, I do think we have enough talent to be much improved. Of course, so may everyone else. Still, failure to make a bowl is a reasonable measure of season failure.