BG's defense

[orangepassion]

Yes. If we don't make a bowl, which means 5-7 or worse (typically) would be a failure as far as the season goes. Not that Babers is a failure or that he should be let go after one season like some posters tried to twist it into. This season was a failure. Last season was a failure.

I hear you, I just don't look at it as so black and white, particularly for a new coach with no DE's for the first few games of the season.

 

[sdhall01]

Exactly. A season failure is not a program failure. While I think it will be difficult for a variety of reasons, I do think we have enough talent to be much improved. Of course, so may everyone else. Still, failure to make a bowl is a reasonable measure of season failure.

The problem is, that's a non-statement; it doesn't mean anything. If you're going to say that any season where you don't go 6-6 is a failure, but the coach didn't fail and the team didn't fail, then why say that it was a failure? What I'm saying is setting your expectations at 6-6 is unreasonable for all of the reasons I cited above. That's why I won't call any of it a failure.

 

[Crusty]

The problem is, that's a non-statement; it doesn't mean anything. If you're going to say that any season where you don't go 6-6 is a failure, but the coach didn't fail and the team didn't fail, then why say that it was a failure? What I'm saying is setting your expectations at 6-6 is unreasonable for all of the reasons I cited above. That's why I won't call any of it a failure.

Maybe the problem is you are too simplistic in your thinking.

 

[sdhall01]

Maybe the problem is you are too simplistic in your thinking.

Look, you're way over thinking this.

OK, one of you two is wrong. LOL! Also, simplicity is drawing a bright line and saying, "5-7 is a failure no matter what."

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I am just as optimistic as anyone about the offense but we can't underplay the learning curve. SD hall made a good point about those H Backs. Those guys are gonna have to learn how to run routes and catch like a true WR. Not just stick slides and wheel routes out of the backfield. that will take time. The tempo needs to be taught, conditioning needs implemented. We will have 3 new lineman. Babers knows what it takes for his offense to click. I just hope we can squeek out a few wins until we put full throttle.

OK, one of you two is wrong. LOL! Also, simplicity is drawing a bright line and saying, "5-7 is a failure no matter what."

You've neglected the other possibility - you are so talented you can simultaneously be too simplistic while over thinking things, and Crusty and I are both right.

 

[sdhall01]

You've neglected the other possibility - you are so talented you can simultaneously be too simplistic while over thinking things, and Crusty and I are both right.

I knew I was good at something!

 

[bnoro]

OK, one of you two is wrong. LOL! Also, simplicity is drawing a bright line and saying, "5-7 is a failure no matter what."

5-7 IS failure. NO ONE is saying the coach should be fired or to blow up everything if it happens. It's just a failure of a season. The goal should be a bowl every year, and missing that is a failure. How is that unreasonable?

 

[sdhall01]

5-7 IS failure. NO ONE is saying the coach should be fired or to blow up everything if it happens. It's just a failure of a season. The goal should be a bowl every year, and missing that is a failure. How is that unreasonable?

sigh. No it isn't; failure is relative. We aren't going to agree. If we're having this same conversation again, then overall thesis of my side of the thread is you're both setting yourself up for disappointment and putting too much pressure on a new coach to immediately succeed.

 

[bnoro]

sigh. No it isn't; failure is relative. We aren't going to agree. If we're having this same conversation again, then overall thesis of my side of the thread is you're both setting yourself up for disappointment and putting too much pressure on a new coach to immediately succeed.

When you got a 50% on a test in high school, you failed the test, right? But you didn't fail the class and you weren't expelled from the school. You're disappointed but you hope you're able to do better on the next one to increase your average.

If you don't understand my point here I'm not quite sure what to tell you. I'm not putting pressure on anyone. I know Dino will succeed and make a bowl next year. If he doesn't I'll be disappointed and consider it a failure, and then I'll look forward to the next season.

I don't get your defeatist attitude. We have the talent to go to a bowl in Dino's first season and we will.

 

[SmilinBob]

I think the D will be a lot more like what SU had when Mac and P were here. One problem I see is getting the kids to be able to go from the attack to playing and recognizing their areas and since they will still be relatively young, we will see a bit of a learning curve for example following player A on route and having player B go to the open vacated spot. Knowing how far to pursue or cover will be huge and how quickly they figure this out will be what Ward and staff have to be able to teach and players to absorb. Pressure on the QB is going to be tough but I'd rather see 4 rushing and 7 back than 5 or 6 and still no pressure as others have said. I could see a couple of lb's lining up on 3rd and longs on the DE sides for a bit more of a speed rush, especially since that position is beyond thin.

 

[Scooch]

FWIW, I think the consternation over the use of the word "failure" is because an unsettling amount of posters here have proven largely incapable of separating a poor game, or a disappointing season, from demanding a coach be fired.

So from my perspective my point is just to say, now, that IF we don't win 6 next year that's not necessarily evidence that hiring Dino and moving in an offense-first direction was a mistake.

 

[TheCusian]

FWIW, I think the consternation over the use of the word "failure" is because an unsettling amount of posters here have proven largely incapable of separating a poor game, or a disappointing season, from demanding a coach be fired. So from my perspective my point is just to say, now, that IF we don't win 6 next year that's not necessarily evidence that hiring Dino and moving in an offense-first direction was a mistake.

The amount of posters who simplify progress into w-l records is mind boggling.

In the end, coaches are judged on w-l. In the meantime there are other numbers to look for. (And I think despite our w-l next season - there will be no mistaking that the offense is trending up).

 

[timkay99]

I think the D will be a lot more like what SU had when Mac and P were here. One problem I see is getting the kids to be able to go from the attack to playing and recognizing their areas and since they will still be relatively young, we will see a bit of a learning curve for example following player A on route and having player B go to the open vacated spot. Knowing how far to pursue or cover will be huge and how quickly they figure this out will be what Ward and staff have to be able to teach and players to absorb. Pressure on the QB is going to be tough but I'd rather see 4 rushing and 7 back than 5 or 6 and still no pressure as others have said. I could see a couple of lb's lining up on 3rd and longs on the DE sides for a bit more of a speed rush, especially since that position is beyond thin.

Wait, there is actually discussion of the defense in the defense thread and not about 6-6 next year?

My biggest concern with this transition is the lack of size in the secondary. If Ward wanted to go to a true Tampa 2, we are nowhere near equipped from a personnel perspective to run that defense even at a below average rate, IMO.

I trust Ward is smart enough and will introduce some concepts of his defense, but put his players in position to make plays and play to their strengths while he gets more size in here for the secondary and more coverage skills in his linebackers.

I actually thought our DL was the best positional group to handle this transition until Ron declared and the unknown nature of the 2 young ones.

Methinks we will see lots of scoring from both teams next year. Hopefully Syracuse will score more.

 

[Crusty]

Wait, there is actually discussion of the defense in the defense thread and not about 6-6 next year?

My biggest concern with this transition is the lack of size in the secondary. If Ward wanted to go to a true Tampa 2, we are nowhere near equipped from a personnel perspective to run that defense even at a below average rate, IMO.

I trust Ward is smart enough and will introduce some concepts of his defense, but put his players in position to make plays and play to their strengths while he gets more size in here for the secondary and more coverage skills in his linebackers.

I actually thought our DL was the best positional group to handle this transition until Ron declared and the unknown nature of the 2 young ones.

Methinks we will see lots of scoring from both teams next year. Hopefully Syracuse will score more.

Good thoughts. I think everyone forgets Ward plays 4-2-5 against spread teams. Perhaps we may fare better against those offenses during the transition.

 

[SmilinBob]

Wait, there is actually discussion of the defense in the defense thread and not about 6-6 next year?

My biggest concern with this transition is the lack of size in the secondary. If Ward wanted to go to a true Tampa 2, we are nowhere near equipped from a personnel perspective to run that defense even at a below average rate, IMO.

I trust Ward is smart enough and will introduce some concepts of his defense, but put his players in position to make plays and play to their strengths while he gets more size in here for the secondary and more coverage skills in his linebackers.

I actually thought our DL was the best positional group to handle this transition until Ron declared and the unknown nature of the 2 young ones.

Methinks we will see lots of scoring from both teams next year. Hopefully Syracuse will score more.

I agree the size of the secondary is going to be a problem but maybe...just maybe they will be more comfortable in the cover 2 and read and react better thus getting more picks. I just see qb's with way too much time in the pocket to pick apart the secondary no matter how well they can cover, especially if there are defections/transfers. People wanted high scoring shoot outs...well here ya go.

 

[money3189]

Wait, there is actually discussion of the defense in the defense thread and not about 6-6 next year?

My biggest concern with this transition is the lack of size in the secondary. If Ward wanted to go to a true Tampa 2, we are nowhere near equipped from a personnel perspective to run that defense even at a below average rate, IMO.

I trust Ward is smart enough and will introduce some concepts of his defense, but put his players in position to make plays and play to their strengths while he gets more size in here for the secondary and more coverage skills in his linebackers.

I actually thought our DL was the best positional group to handle this transition until Ron declared and the unknown nature of the 2 young ones.

Methinks we will see lots of scoring from both teams next year. Hopefully Syracuse will score more.

fair concerns. I also think we will seem some positional switches for two reasons. the first being to get rid of players the staff is not big on (very common). Some will stay others may leave after being told to play another position. Secondly to get guys at positions that fit their system. I said it before, a kid like Perkins may be moved to safety. Backfield is too crowded. That will increase overall size of secondary.

 

[Crusty]

fair concerns. I also think we will seem some positional switches for two reasons. the first being to get rid of players the staff is not big on (very common). Some will stay others may leave after being told to play another position. Secondly to get guys at positions that fit their system. I said it before, a kid like Perkins may be moved to safety. Backfield is too crowded. That will increase overall size of secondary.

I agree and it may be more players that we might think. We tend to focus on the 2 deep, but there are probably many others that will be encouraged to leave in one manner or the other.

 

[SmilinBob]

As for the BG defense aspect, let's just hope they look more like Bowling Green than they do Bishop Grimes out there. We SU fans have already been through that with the name we no longer say tenure.