Big Game James

[mike32768]

It still amazes me that people can complain about our 8th man not having enough talent.

We bank on our team being "deep" - AND with no go-to guy - so IMO, we'd like our 8th guy to be almost as good as our starters. When our starters are misfiring we need to count on guys like JS to come through now and again. Plus, I think all of us would love to see a real 3-point threat emerge.

I watched Southerland two seasons ago as a Frosh in the preseason Midnight (it starts at 8PM actually) Madness event at the Dome and I noticed this kid can SHOOT! His stroke was gorgeous and he was knocking down threes... it was awesome... in an exhibition. Come game time, not so much. Although he did not mention names, I believe CoachB was referring to JS when, during that season, Boeheim made a comment about how even he (Coach) can shoot a ball when he's not being defended, and that kids who can shoot in practice don't get game minutes, kids who can shoot in a game do.

Regardless, when JS started this season I was so grateful that he seemed to have found his game shot though the stats show an inconsistent number of minutes (no way to tell from them why he got the minutes he did). To his credit, he did score 15 points at ND ( one bright spot in that game). But after that he has been a bit of a ghost on offense.

Looking only at offense admittedly, he had 7 points in the first half at home against Louisville, but then zip in the second. He had zero yesterday until his 10, late in the second half. So he's still inconsistent. Again, maybe it's the minutes Coach is giving him... and maybe that will change.

I love this kid he plays with heart (OK, cliche) and I soooo want him to do well. But as jsshap wrote, without the ability to quickly square up, I don't think he will ever shine like a Rautins as a three-threat - better teams just won't give him the opportunity to step into every shot.

 

[iommi]

That's why his post:like ratio is so good!

What's our excuse? We need more likes!

 

[iommi]

mike: I gave you your first "like." You popped your cherry!

 

[Gabjon]

I think James is going to have a Dnic type senior year. He won't be a 20pt/game scorer because he will be on a deeper team and won't get the shoot attempts, I think he will shoot north of 35% from the 3 point line. I also think he is by far the best wing defender in the zone . He closes out on shooters, tips passes and blocks shoots at the rim, if he becomes a better rebound he could go down as the best ever wing defender in the zone. I think he could easily have a 10 year NBA career as a defensive stopper and spot up shooter like a Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier.

 

[SoBristol]

Agree with others that James is a very good wing defender, and he is getting better on the defensive boards. He can get pushed around, but seems to be getting better at anticipating.
Next step -- get more offense in the paint and get a few follow-ups on the offensive boards. Love the 3s when he is hitting -- obviously can't depend on that every time out. James should be rounding out what he does with a mid-range shot and an occasional inside finish. Maybe that has to wait until next season?

 

[Toga]

I think he has incredible upside. He makes us almost unbeatable if hes hitting shots. His size, athleticism, defense just throws off other teams and for some reason when he hits a three it just seems to pump up the team more than usual. He doesnt shoot very well in games, yet...all reports is that hes lights out in practice. All he needs is a couple good games and I think he will be ready to become a big time contributor.

If JS goes something like 3-5 from three - yeah we should pretty much be unbeatable. That's why I'm happy he's been getting run lately to increase the chances of getting his stroke back.

 

[moqui]

I simply opined that in my opinion Southerland is not very good and I explained why I think that.

of course I disagree with you, but I think your argument is fairly reasoned and I don't think anyone should be told to shut up or made to go on an apology tour, especially after just one single game.

the only thing I would point it is that JB forcefully disagrees with the above conclusion. Repeatedly, in his own words several times this year, he already thinks James is a good player, and he believes he can be a very good one once he gets his shot to fall consistently.

I think he could easily have a 10 year NBA career as a defensive stopper and spot up shooter like a Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier.

I have been James' biggest fan for a couple of years now, but I think this goes too far. He has a very high ceiling, no doubt, but he remains a long way from reaching it, too. He isn't even in the neighborhood of an NBA player right now, let alone a 10 year career. And, while I love his defense, excellence in the SU zone has never translated to "defensive stopper" at the next level.

 

[Guinness]

of course I disagree with you, but I think your argument is fairly reasoned and I don't think anyone should be told to shut up or made to go on an apology tour, especially after just one single game.

FWIW I don't believe people like JSSHAP should shut up either. My comment about the haters was not really directed at him. For the most part I don't have an issue with people who want him to do more or improve. My issue is with those that have nothing good to say about the kid and constantly feel the need to tell the board he sucks. Those are the people I don't want to hear from again.

 

[jsshap]

of course I disagree with you, but I think your argument is fairly reasoned and I don't think anyone should be told to shut up or made to go on an apology tour, especially after just one single game.

the only thing I would point it is that JB forcefully disagrees with the above conclusion. Repeatedly, in his own words several times this year, he already thinks James is a good player, and he believes he can be a very good one once he gets his shot to fall consistently.

[sorry i put my post inside the quote -- not sure how to fix]

Yes, I am clearly in the minority, and the majority includes some pretty knowledgeable bball folks. The differences between Bowen and Southerland imo are numerous and obvious (realize you were not comparing them). Aside from the shooting limitations discussed, Southerland to me is very athletic but not very quick, which is a prerequisite to being a defensive stopper (at least at the 1, 2, or 3).

I would love to be wrong, of course...and I often am. For exampe, if RF2044 happens to read this, he can confirm I was wrong -- dead wrong -- when we argued a few years back about Flynn and Lawson; I was absolutely certain Flynn was the better player. Sorry RF! : )

 

[SoBeCuse]

James does a lot of little things. He BLOWS away Kris and CJ on the defensive end and with the rotations like Moqui said. If he can rebound better like JB wants then he can really make us difficult to beat.

 

[moqui]

Southerland to me is very athletic but not very quick, which is a prerequisite to being a defensive stopper (at least at the 1, 2, or 3).

Maybe it is his length and athleticism making up for whatever we would term "quickness," but on the defensive end, his rotations are faster and crisper than any of the other forwards. The play that I mentioned in the first post of this thread is a great example.

Up 53-49 with under 2 minutes to play, Calhoun ran a well designed play. Lamb and Drummond were both on Joseph's side of the zone, Lamb on the wing and Drummond in the corner. Olander was in the high post. When the entry pass came to Olander, Joseph moved up on Lamb to cover the more obvious threat. Fab came up to challenge Olander, and Drummond came along the baseline behind the defense. Olander zipped a pass to him for a sure dunk, but James made a picture perfect rotation from the opposite side of the lane to seal the baseline. Having already blocked Drummond once, the big guy looked a bit intimidated by James, passed it back to Olander who short armed his shot.

The final minute of the game would have played out much differently if James hadn't been quick to the baseline.

 

[OttoMets]

Maybe it is his length and athleticism making up for whatever we would term "quickness," but on the defensive end, his rotations are faster and crisper than any of the other forwards. The play that I mentioned in the first post of this thread is a great example.

Up 53-49 with under 2 minutes to play, Calhoun ran a well designed play. Lamb and Drummond were both on Joseph's side of the zone, Lamb on the wing and Drummond in the corner. Olander was in the high post. When the entry pass came to Olander, Joseph moved up on Lamb to cover the more obvious threat. Fab came up to challenge Olander, and Drummond came along the baseline behind the defense. Olander zipped a pass to him for a sure dunk, but James made a picture perfect rotation from the opposite side of the lane to seal the baseline. Having already blocked Drummond once, the big guy looked a bit intimidated by James, passed it back to Olander who short armed his shot.

The final minute of the game would have played out much differently if James hadn't been quick to the baseline.

That was terrific. Southerland's the best wing defender SU's had since...I don't remember.

It's a shame we wasted his freshman year. He's a unique player and could be very valuable for us (but would be more valuable if he were only at the halfway point of his career).

 

[SoBristol]

That was terrific. Southerland's the best wing defender SU's had since...I don't remember.

It's a shame we wasted his freshman year. He's a unique player and could be very valuable for us (but would be more valuable if he were only at the halfway point of his career).

Won't James turn 23 years old next year? He needs to blow up next year and then play for pay (Europe?).

 

[Gabjon]

I have been James' biggest fan for a couple of years now, but I think this goes too far. He has a very high ceiling, no doubt, but he remains a long way from reaching it, too. He isn't even in the neighborhood of an NBA player right now, let alone a 10 year career. And, while I love his defense, excellence in the SU zone has never translated to "defensive stopper" at the next level.[/quote]

Jason Hart and Eton Thomas did it and neither one of them could shoot a lick. The way he moves his feet should translate very well. Plus "defensive stopper" is more of a catch phase than anything else. Kobe his lit up every "defensive stopper" ever put on him. Bowen and Battier are defensive players and spot up shooters that bring little else to the table that is why I brought them up.

 

[ORRange]

James has been the biggest disappointment this year. Totally agree with jsshap. If he could just make a few threes a game it would help our penetration so much. The screen/curl play with him and Dion has been run all year, but JS can't make the shot. In 20 BE games this year "No Game" is an incredible 13-59, 22%. UGHH. Would love to see him make 35% the rest of the way.