big mets trade brewing

sutomcat

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#2
multiple pieces for robbie cano & edwin diaz
It looks like a strong contender for the worst trade in Met history. I can’t believe anyone would seriously this.

They are going to ruin the farm system and the future for a lazy steroid user at the end of his career, who is only fit to play DH and a good closer. People should be put in jail for this.
 

moqui

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#3
It looks like a strong contender for the worst trade in Met history. I can’t believe anyone would seriously this.

They are going to ruin the farm system and the future for a lazy steroid user at the end of his career, who is only fit to play DH and a good closer. People should be put in jail for this.
seems like you're holding back ...
 

Noexcuse

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#4
It looks like a strong contender for the worst trade in Met history. I can’t believe anyone would seriously this.

They are going to ruin the farm system and the future for a lazy steroid user at the end of his career, who is only fit to play DH and a good closer. People should be put in jail for this.
Maybe Bobby Bonilla goes to Seattle as part of the deal?
 

cuse10

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#6
The trade is absurd for a number of reasons:
  • Cano is on the wrong side of 30, has a huge contract and just got popped for performance enhancers.
  • Gutting your farm system which you've tried to rebuild by dealing your top prospects. If you're trading Dunn, Syndergaard is absolutely off the table.
  • Instead of getting complimentary pieces via FA, the Wilpons would rather make a deal and have the Mariners eat some of the hence giving up young talent. BVW is in over his head.
 

moqui

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#7
i think of it as 2 trades:
  1. dunn & bautista for diaz. i would do this deal 10 times out of 10. it is a home run.
  2. bruce, schwarzak, kelencic for cano & cash. i'd rather it was mcneil then kelencic, but it looks like it won't be. this is the questionable one, but only in the out years of cano's contract. if the mets really think they can win now, then cano is a valuable piece the next two seasons. if you believe that the mets are ready to contend & cano can hit like he did the last two seasons, it's a worthy risk
 
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Briancuse

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#8
i think of it as 2 trades:
  1. dunn & bautista for diaz. i would do this deal 10 times out of 10. it is a home run.
  2. bruce, schwarzak, kelencic for cano & cash. i'd rather it was mcneil then kelencic, but it looks like it won't be. this is the questionable one, but only in the out years of cano's contract. if the mets really think they can win now, then cano is a valuable piece the next two seasons. if you believe that the mets are ready to contend & cano can hit like he did the last two seasons, it's a worthy risk
I don't want to lose McNeil the guy raked last year he deserves to play.
 

Knicks411

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#9
I don't think this is a bad deal at all, really.

Dunn is an ok pitching prospect. He wasn't great last year. He's ok. And a pitching prospect. Kelenic. Good prospect for sure. Not in love with the idea of picking a guy that high and trading him in the same year (Different regime, I know)

But Seatte is eating a ton of money on the Cano deal. Obviously you wish he was a few years younger, but the guy can still play. They kept McNeil, hopefully they play him at third. Diaz was one of the best relievers in baseball last year and is still young and cheap (and look at the prices other teams have paid for elite relievers, those guys are valued highly)

They can't trade Thor now. They need to add some more pieces.
 

upperdeck

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#10
Mcneil if he can play 3rd and Cano at 2nd is a better lineup than what they put out last yr. frazier can play 1st/3rd if he stays.

Cano actually has had solid yrs.

this is a better spot than with carbrera last yr to start the season.

If the rookie can play first at all is a vastly better lineup than what started last yr.

Now figure out center and how Conforto can play a full season like he has played in spurts the last 203 yrs. Nimo/Lageres becomes your 2 backups when Cespedes comes back.

This hopefully also fixes the closer spot and moves people around there to better spots.
 

Knicks411

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#11
Mcneil if he can play 3rd and Cano at 2nd is a better lineup than what they put out last yr. frazier can play 1st/3rd if he stays.

Cano actually has had solid yrs.

this is a better spot than with carbrera last yr to start the season.

If the rookie can play first at all is a vastly better lineup than what started last yr.

Now figure out center and how Conforto can play a full season like he has played in spurts the last 203 yrs. Nimo/Lageres becomes your 2 backups when Cespedes comes back.

This hopefully also fixes the closer spot and moves people around there to better spots.
In an ideal world, they probably need another Catcher, CF, big time ish reliever, and probably a SP.

This isnt an ideal world, so maybe they'll get 3 of those?
 

sutomcat

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#12
i think of it as 2 trades:
  1. dunn & bautista for diaz. i would do this deal 10 times out of 10. it is a home run.
  2. bruce, schwarzak, kelencic for cano & cash. i'd rather it was mcneil then kelencic, but it looks like it won't be. this is the questionable one, but only in the out years of cano's contract. if the mets really think they can win now, then cano is a valuable piece the next two seasons. if you believe that the mets are ready to contend & cano can hit like he did the last two seasons, it's a worthy risk
When I responded, i was reading a report that also included McNeil in the trade. That makes it a little less destructive to the franchise.

Let me start by saying I think Kelenic is going to be a big time player; a 10 year all star. He is a 5 tool player. I think he is going to be a Silver Bat/Gold Glove type player.

Cano has arguably the worst contract in baseball. It was bad from day one. If you are lucky, you get decent value over the first half over these long term huge dollar contracts and then suffer through paying a player huge dollars for little production on the back end. Even the Yankees wouldn’t do what the Mariners did.

It would be amazing for DiPoto if he could get someone to take it over on the back end, where we can safely assume Cano might have one more season of above average play in him. He is said to be euphoric this might happen. I would be too.

Add in Cano’s unwillingness to play hard, his use of steroids and his reported insistence that he has to continue to play 2B exclusively (so he can become the all time leader in home runs at that position), and I don’t even want him on my team. Forget about trading him for the best prospect the Mets have selected since David Wright.

If the Mets do this, they better go all in. Add a couple top notch relievers, add an above average center fielder and catcher (via free agency), not trade Syndergaard. The payroll needs to go up big time. My worst fear is they trade Syndergaard and get a couple of 30 something guys near the end of their careers and stand pat.

Two more Ryan for Fregosi type trades in one off season. We finally have a chance to get relatively young and have a good future and this clown is going to ruin it to do an old client a solid.

It is hell being a Met fan.
 

Knicks411

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#13
The Mets effectively owe Cano 5/60. It's not like it's a huge contract. He was also really good last year. And he did spend some time at 1B as well. (And ALbert Pujols and Cabrera for sure have worse contracts)

For a guy that has a rep for not playing hard, the guy never misses games and is headed to the HOF (well, pending the PED stuff I suppose). So it seems to work for him. There's definitely some downside to Cano. I think he's going to hit for the next few years though

I agree they need to add more pieces for this year. That's the key. And it's totally possible Kelenic develops into a stud. Like I said, I don't love the process of picking a guy in the top ten and then trading him away 6 months later. But he's really young, there's a lot that can happen either way for him.
 

upperdeck

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#14
why should anyone have any faith that someone the mets drafted will be a stud? who is the last one to pan out? if they get 3 yrs of cano they wont be eating much. if they figure out a 5th starter and get a solid catcher they have the piece to compete. just have to hang in and hope Cespedes finally finishes a season healthy.

if the kid Reliever can pitch at that level that changes the way about 10 game went last yr.

hopefully mcneil was not a flash in the pan and can play 3rd and Alonso can make the team and drive in runs like he has done in the minors. then suddenly you have an offense.
 

Alsacs

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#15
This is deal is atrocious for the Mets. You gave up prospects and didn't even get that much of Cano's deal eaten as the level of prospects given up.
Mets could have signed Daniel Murphy for 3-4 years 60 million and/or Craig Kimbrel for 5 years 75 million for the Cano money. Diaz is young but closers can be flashes in the pan unless he is the real deal. I really wish the Mets could get the bleep together as they and Red Sox have an alliance against the Yankees. The Red Sox do there part cmon Mets management.
 

Knicks411

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#16
This is deal is atrocious for the Mets. You gave up prospects and didn't even get that much of Cano's deal eaten as the level of prospects given up.
Mets could have signed Daniel Murphy for 3-4 years 60 million and/or Craig Kimbrel for 5 years 75 million for the Cano money. Diaz is young but closers can be flashes in the pan unless he is the real deal. I really wish the Mets could get the bleep together as they and Red Sox have an alliance against the Yankees. The Red Sox do there part cmon Mets management.
I don't think I really agree. High level relievers are crazy valued now. Look at the returns for Brad Hand, Chapman, Andrew Miller, etc. They're paying Cano 5/65 or something. And Diaz is probably one of th ebest relievers around. I don't totally love the trade because Cano is a little older than you'd like, but it makes them a lot better now, and Kelenic is pretty far away from helping any team, if he ever does. and I think Dunn is kinda just a guy
 

Alsacs

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#17
I don't think I really agree. High level relievers are crazy valued now. Look at the returns for Brad Hand, Chapman, Andrew Miller, etc. They're paying Cano 5/65 or something. And Diaz is probably one of th ebest relievers around. I don't totally love the trade because Cano is a little older than you'd like, but it makes them a lot better now, and Kelenic is pretty far away from helping any team, if he ever does. and I think Dunn is kinda just a guy
Kelenic is 19. That guy was the 6th overall pick this year. You don't punt that quickly on the guy.
Dunn was a first round pick recently as well.
Even if they aren't your top prospect they are two of your top 5 and Diaz isn't worth that. You could sign Craig Kimbrel for the Cano money and deal those prospects for other needs.

This deal tells me the Mets are going to do something stupid and trade Syndergaard to replesh the minor leaguers lost.
 

Knicks411

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#18
Kelenic is 19. That guy was the 6th overall pick this year. You don't punt that quickly on the guy.
Dunn was a first round pick recently as well.
Even if they aren't your top prospect they are two of your top 5 and Diaz isn't worth that. You could sign Craig Kimbrel for the Cano money and deal those prospects for other needs.

This deal tells me the Mets are going to do something stupid and trade Syndergaard to replesh the minor leaguers lost.

Strong disagree. If the Mariners traded Diaz by himself they would've gotten much more in return. Reliever prospect hauls have gotten crazy. The Cubs traded a top 5 or 10 prospect in baseball for 3 months of Aroldis Chapman. The Indians traded a top 10-15 prospect for Brad Hand. Indians traded like a top 30 and top 75 or so Andrew Miller.

Also don't forget that they dumped salary in this deal. It's effectively salary neutral for this season. Which you know the Wilpons like.

If they trade Thor. Well that would be dumb. So probably gonna happen
 

Alsacs

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#19
Strong disagree. If the Mariners traded Diaz by himself they would've gotten much more in return. Reliever prospect hauls have gotten crazy. The Cubs traded a top 5 or 10 prospect in baseball for 3 months of Aroldis Chapman. The Indians traded a top 10-15 prospect for Brad Hand. Indians traded like a top 30 and top 75 or so Andrew Miller.

Also don't forget that they dumped salary in this deal. It's effectively salary neutral for this season. Which you know the Wilpons like.

If they trade Thor. Well that would be dumb. So probably gonna happen
Diaz is a young RP but its not like the Mets were a closer away.
When the Cubs traded for Chapman they were a postseason lock.
Same for the Indians with Andrew Miller.
Those deals were them going for it. Last year Cleveland had to worry about Boston looking for a RP and that is why they overpaid for Hand.

The Mets aren't close to a playoff team right now. The Phillies, Braves, and Nationals are all competitive. If that was a deal you guys do next July okay but not with FA and the ability to again sign Kimbrel for the Cano and use the prospect equity for other holes. I don't think its a bad trade if closer was your postseason weakness but the Mets got a deal where as you said they got money off the books and appear like they are doing something. I wouldn't like the deal if I was a Mets fan.
 
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#20
I love Diaz. In case I haven't mentioned this in the last 15 minutes, he helped me win our friendly SU Fantasy baseball championship this year.

However, for all his offensive pop, Cano now is a well below-average defensive 2B. And, if McNeil is really your starter at 3rd, you're looking at a guy whose main skill is BA/OBP. His power is below average for the position and he's at best an average runner.

The good thing about Diaz is that, if the Mets' season goes south, you can flip him for a pretty great package. As far as how this trade impacts the 2019 Mets, I don't see how it makes them much better than they were this year.
 

Knicks411

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#21
Diaz is a young RP but its not like the Mets were a closer away.
When the Cubs traded for Chapman they were a postseason lock.
Same for the Indians with Andrew Miller.
Those deals were them going for it. Last year Cleveland had to worry about Boston looking for a RP and that is why they overpaid for Hand.

The Mets aren't close to a playoff team right now. The Phillies, Braves, and Nationals are all competitive. If that was a deal you guys do next July okay but not with FA and the ability to again sign Kimbrel for the Cano and use the prospect equity for other holes. I don't think its a bad trade if closer was your postseason weakness but the Mets got a deal where as you said they got money off the books and appear like they are doing something. I wouldn't like the deal if I was a Mets fan.
I think (hope?) they're looking to add more talent and try and compete this year. They're not going to do exactly what they should do (sign Machado or Harper) but i don't think they're going to flip Thor for prospects. That would be terrible
 

moqui

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#22
I think (hope?) they're looking to add more talent and try and compete this year. They're not going to do exactly what they should do (sign Machado or Harper) but i don't think they're going to flip Thor for prospects. That would be terrible
yeah, if bvw is to be believed, he intends to put a true contender on the field next year & this is just an opening move so can't really judge it until we see all the pieces put in place.
 

Knicks411

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#23
yeah, if bvw is to be believed, he intends to put a true contender on the field next year & this is just an opening move so can't really judge it until we see all the pieces put in place.
Unfortunately, I always worry Jeff and Fred are gonna get in the way
 

Alsacs

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#24
Unfortunately, I always worry Jeff and Fred are gonna get in the way
Syndergaard for Realmuto would be a stupid deal. I told you the Mets would do something stupid.
If they give Syndergaard to the Yankees enjoy watching the team in the Bronx in October.
Of course it will force Boston to have to do something stupid to keep up with the Yankees.
 
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#25
Syndergaard for Realmuto would be a stupid deal. I told you the Mets would do something stupid.
If they give Syndergaard to the Yankees enjoy watching the team in the Bronx in October.
Of course it will force Boston to have to do something stupid to keep up with the Yankees.
There is no way they give away Syndergaard and only get back Realmuto. Even the Mets aren't that dumb. NS has 3 years of team control left, Realmuto for 2.

My guess is they are probably trying to swing either Nimmo or Conforto and Wheeler (which I again don't like) and don't see anything happening and them signing either Grandal or Moldanado
 


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