Big Props for Hop

[SoBeCuse]

Odd take for someone who complains about Howard more than anyone on the board. His stats are worse than Howard’s across the board.

The take wasn’t odd nor did I say I wanted Crisp over him. Any idiot knows Frank is a better shooter also. I did let Mason know with a disclaimer first that I’ve only seen them play twice. What I saw is what I saw. Sharing the ball, better ballhandling, quicker decision making, pushing the tempo, etc., collectively from UW. There will be more complaining about Frank as well before the season is through. Better just ignore my posts then.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I honestly think that most of what you're talking about is that the two teams are coached very differently on offense. I mean, the difference in how UW is playing on offense vs the early games is night and day. They started with a very similar ISO offense and alot of players taking forced shots outside the offense, a ton of turnovers, and not many assists. Hop has turned around the way they share the ball and pass the ball. He basically had to undo all the craptastic Romar teaching. The team passing has improved tremendously since the early games.

Crisp is not good. At all. Incredibly inefficient player. He's had a few good games here and there, but he is wildly erratic and inconsistent, and he's almost as bad at shooting as O'Shae Brisset (37% FG and 28.2% from 3). He's 6 for his last 41 from 3 point range. His shot selection is getting better, but it's still really bad. He is very, very quick like you point out, but he doesn't really create for anyone but himself when he gets in the lane (except for the Kansas game where he miraculously became a real true point guard and was setting up guys for dunks and layups - if you're basing your opinion of Crisp on that game then you should know that was a huge aberration). Hop has gotten him to take care of the ball better lately (only 4 turnovers in his last 4 game), but before that he was pretty much around 3 a game with a 1:1 ast to turnover ratio. I think having Michael Carter III come back from injury has forced Crisp to play a little bit more carefully since Hop has slowly re-integrating MCIII into the PG position and Crisp knows that if he makes mistakes he can be taken out of the game now. Before, they didn't have anyone to sub for him.

I'd take Frank Howard over Crisp 9 times out of 10. Much better passer and much, much better shooter.

I don't entirely disagree with your take on Crisp. I think he is playing a role that he was never built to have and I don't think he will ever be any better than he is right now for the most part. I think it has more to do with that than looking over his shoulder at MC3. I have never really bought into the idea personally. I think they have improved offensively but the point I was trying to make before and maybe I failed at is they have multiple people who are capable of scoring. While Crisp, Thybulle, Green and Nowell are not great shooters they are at least capable so they can have multiple people who can score on the floor. We literally have only 3 people who can score outside of 5 feet and maybe even only 2 if you were being a realist about it. I get maybe we are close in 3 point shooting percentage but we only have 3 guys who can hit shots and that affects flow of offense.

 

[SWC75]

Watching them push the ball after every rebound, watching them switch defenses or moving to a press even after being up by 20, playing a bench, just shows everything some of us have been begging for.

Team doesn't even win 10 games with the number 1 overall NBA pick, lose almost the entire recruiting class and not returning a ton of talent and he's already exceeded win expectations and beat a top team in the country (that we got smoked by).

My first question on the initial "Mike Hopkins Show" as Syracuse coach was going to be. "Coach is there anything different we are going to to do now that you are head coach?" I guess it's being answered.

 

[br801]

I wish all the best for Coach Hop. He was a great leader for the Orange for years. I've always loved his enthusiasm and good character. I miss him from the program.

Absolutely. I think that was the OP's intention.

 

[TinyManInside]

I don't entirely disagree with your take on Crisp. I think he is playing a role that he was never built to have and I don't think he will ever be any better than he is right now for the most part. I think it has more to do with that than looking over his shoulder at MC3. I have never really bought into the idea personally. I think they have improved offensively but the point I was trying to make before and maybe I failed at is they have multiple people who are capable of scoring. While Crisp, Thybulle, Green and Nowell are not great shooters they are at least capable so they can have multiple people who can score on the floor. We literally have only 3 people who can score outside of 5 feet and maybe even only 2 if you were being a realist about it. I get maybe we are close in 3 point shooting percentage but we only have 3 guys who can hit shots and that affects flow of offense.

I agree on Crisp being forced into a role that he isn't entirely suited for. Obviously, the plan was for Blake Harris and Daejon Davis to play the point for UW but both transferred after Romar got canned (I like Davis a lot btw - I think he'll be a major factor for Stanford in the future and really wish he had stayed on with Hop).

I do agree that UW has much more balanced scoring but I also think part of that is due to the difference in offensive philosophy between the teams. JB's style has always been to emphasize his best offensive players and minimize/hide his less skilled guys. Hop is definitely more comfortable with spreading the minutes and offense around. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[MSOrange]

I think there have been more head coaches than the ones you mentioned who never had prior head coaching experience before leading good programs. Not all are power 5 programs but they are programs with strong basketball traditions, some were excellent coaches who have moved on because of the chance they were given.(those small private schools just can't pay like the large state schools) It's a nice addition to justify hiring a prospect who has been a successful head coach previously but not absolutely necessary if the fit is good. Admittedly it sure makes an easier sell when hiring and also a way to avoid a bigger stink if they don't work out though. Below are a few more who had no prior head coaching experience:

Tom Izzo at Michigan St, Fred Hoiberg at Iowa St, Frank Martin when he was at Kansas St, Chris Mullin at St John's, Patrick Ewing at Georgetown, David Padgett at Louisville (tough circumstances I know), Chris Mack at Xavier, Sean Miller at Xavier, Archie Miller at Dayton, Roy Williams at Kansas, Mark Few at Gonzaga, Brad Stevens at Butler, Jamie Dixon at Pitt etc

Even in the NBA Steve Kerr, Doc Rivers, Mark Jackson, Gregg Popovich etc never had any head coaching experience.

It's a crap shoot. Just think of the ACC alone - BC, Wake, Ga Tech, NC St, etc all have hired multiple coaches with head coaching experience just as most of the more successful programs in the ACC have - but with mixed results. It's hard to find the right fit regardless of conference and even when you do, hopefully you can keep them or worse don't switch from a decent program to a bad one like BC did not being satisfied with Al Skinner .

Thank you for the detailed thoughtful response. I got a little irked with the original poster I was responding to when he hot taked his response.

I was focusing on active Power 5 schools (Big 10, Pac 10, SEC, ACC and Big 12) coaches when I was listing my coaches, but you're right - I missed Izzo and didn't include Padgett since he is interim. You are correct, there have been several at big name schools that were hired with no experience. So it definitely could work out. And just because a guy has experience, doesn't mean it won't be a total disaster. I only have to think of what Todd Lickliter did when he went from Butler to Iowa.

But as you mention, it's an easier sell when hiring a coach with experience and I guess that's why I still strongly prefer that option.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The take wasn’t odd nor did I say I wanted Crisp over him. Any idiot knows Frank is a better shooter also. I did let Mason know with a disclaimer first that I’ve only seen them play twice. What I saw is what I saw. Sharing the ball, better ballhandling, quicker decision making, pushing the tempo, etc., collectively from UW. There will be more complaining about Frank as well before the season is through. Better just ignore my posts then.

Lol, not sure why you’re taking it so personally. I just think you’ve gone overboard on your Howard criticism. Some of it doesn’t make sense.

 

[CousCuse]

Hopkins is on his coaching honeymoon. Good for him. Lorenzo Romer only had 1 bad season all the time he was there, the rest of the time he did a lot of winning and made the NCAA quite often. So, it's not like Hopkins took over a total derelict program.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Lol, not sure why you’re taking it so personally. I just think you’ve gone overboard on your Howard criticism. Some of it doesn’t make sense.

Well, you put words in my mouth and implied some B.S. in my post quoting Mason. Of course it is personal, lol. Look, man, I see what I see RE: Frank or anybody else. It’s not going to change and I’m not seeing ghosts or making anything up. I’m not a homer who is going to be excited about two narrow escapes VS a terrible Pitt where I don’t even know what I was watching in terms of basketball. It was that bad. Do me a favor and just ignore my posts. It will be better for both of us.

 

[MSOrange]

Hopkins is on his coaching honeymoon. Good for him. Lorenzo Romer only had 1 bad season all the time he was there, the rest of the time he did a lot of winning and made the NCAA quite often. So, it's not like Hopkins took over a total derelict program.

Romar hadn't made the NCAA since 2010-11 with 3 or 4 seasons just a game or two over 500 I guess it's depending on your definition of a bad season.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Romar hadn't made the NCAA since 2010-11 with 3 or 4 just a game or two over 500 I guess it's depending on your definition of a bad season.

He was bringing in TOP talent as well. Romar had to go.

 

[orangecuse]

Hopkins is on his coaching honeymoon. Good for him. Lorenzo Romer only had 1 bad season all the time he was there, the rest of the time he did a lot of winning and made the NCAA quite often. So, it's not like Hopkins took over a total derelict program.

Additionally, adding that a bit over a 1/2 season is not enough data to suggest that Hop will have long term success there, he has no track record to suggest otherwise. I'm not implying that he won't have success, and longevity at that, but it's much too soon to say with any degree of certainty. I hope he has tremendous success, he will always be a great ambassador for Syracuse University no matter what. I just think, in my opinion, that just because he is having early success at UW, is not a guarantee that it will be sustainable And, that Syracuse's future is less bright because of not having Hop. I recall when Lavin went to St. Johns, and seemingly turned things around there rather quickly, but it wasn't sustained. I know he had some health issues that contributed to his stint there being so short term, but even prior to that, it seemed that the successes were flat lining somewhat.

 

[Alsacs]

Hopkins is on his coaching honeymoon. Good for him. Lorenzo Romer only had 1 bad season all the time he was there, the rest of the time he did a lot of winning and made the NCAA quite often. So, it's not like Hopkins took over a total derelict program.

Romar didn’t make the NCAA tournament his last 6 years as Washington coach.

I mean he made the NCAA tournament 6 times in 15 years at Washington.
That isn’t good.

Hop could make the tournament this year with a weaker roster than Romar had.

 

[TinyManInside]

Additionally, adding that a bit over a 1/2 season is not enough data to suggest that Hop will have long term success there, he has no track record to suggest otherwise. I'm not implying that he won't have success, and longevity at that, but it's much too soon to say with any degree of certainty. I hope he has tremendous success, he will always be a great ambassador for Syracuse University no matter what. I just think, in my opinion, that just because he is having early success at UW, is not a guarantee that it will be sustained. And, that Syracuse's future is less bright because of not having Hop. I recall when Lavin went to St. Johns, and seemingly turned things around their rather quickly, but it wasn't sustained. I know he had some health issues that contributed to his stint there being so short term, but even prior to that, it seemed that the successes were flat lining somewhat.

Agree 100%. Super happy for Hop's start but sustaining success is never easy.

 

[TinyManInside]

Hopkins is on his coaching honeymoon. Good for him. Lorenzo Romer only had 1 bad season all the time he was there, the rest of the time he did a lot of winning and made the NCAA quite often. So, it's not like Hopkins took over a total derelict program.

That program was in the toilet. No NCAAs in 6 years. Hop inherited a team that won NINE games last year WITH the #1 pick in the NBA draft.

 

[CousCuse]

Romar didn’t make the NCAA tournament his last 6 years as Washington coach.

I mean he made the NCAA tournament 6 times in 15 years at Washington.
That isn’t good.

Hop could make the tournament this year with a weaker roster than Romar had.

Can't imagine many team getting in from the Pac12. They have a chance.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Buzz is a program builder, he pushes the pace and does quite a bit with more unheralded recruits, I believe with what Syracuse has to offer he could be very successful here and recruit better than he has at VT.

You either like Buzz or you don't, but I think he plays more of the game you see at the next level and will appeal to shooters, athletes etc.

Am I comparing Buzz to JB? no, that would be foolish.

It’s a fallacy Buzz does more with unheralded recruits at least according to the recruiting rankings. He’s had better recruits than Virginia 3 out of the four years he’s been there and his class this year was better than ours. In fact he’s had a top 5 ACC recruiting class every year, but one. I just think he’s a tad overrated here because of the style of play he coaches.

I’ll admit I’m still angry over the way Hopkins was treated here when he was basically playing Boeheims style without Boeheim on the bench. I won’t be surprised at all if Hop ends up being a better coach than Buzz. I think he’s already on the way there.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well, you put words in my mouth and implied some B.S. in my post quoting Mason. Of course it is personal, lol. Look, man, I see what I see RE: Frank or anybody else. It’s not going to change and I’m not seeing ghosts or making anything up. I’m not a homer who is going to be excited about two narrow escapes VS a terrible Pitt where I don’t even know what I was watching in terms of basketball. It was that bad. Do me a favor and just ignore my posts. It will be better for both of us.

It wasn’t personal at all. You took it that way. I think your opinion of Howard is clouded for whatever reason and I never brought up the Pitt game. I’m not the first person who’s challenged you regarding Howard and you don’t have to be a homer to have that opinion.

 

[Alsacs]

It’s a fallacy Buzz does morewith unheralded recruits at least according to the recruiting rankings. He’s had better recruits than Virginia 3 out of the four years he’s been there and his class this year was better than ours. In fact he’s had a top 5 ACC recruiting class every year, but one. I just think he’s a tad overrated here because of the style of play he coaches.

I’ll admit I’m still angry over the way Hopkins was treated here when he was basically playing Boeheims style without Boeheim on the bench. I won’t be surprised at all if Hop ends up being a better coach than Buzz. I think he’s already on the way there.

Hop wasn’t treated that bad.
It was just he was shocked their were any murmurs.
Hop left because he was being step up to fail.
Look when Eddie Sutton left Oklahoma State he step up his son to replace him and didn’t leave the cupboard full. Sutton got 2 years and was out.

Gene Keady brought Matt Painter in as an his replacement and was given a swan song year. Painter took over a rebuild and now has stabilized Purdue. Painter survived those first bad years because the fans were patient and saw the change from Keady.
It worked. Hop could be like Painter.

Or he could be like Greg Gard at Wisconsin.
Jim Boeheim forced Mike to leave.
It wasn’t good to be pretty here.
Our recruiting next year took off after Hop left.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It wasn’t personal at all. You took it that way. I think your opinion of Howard is clouded for whatever reason and I never brought up the Pitt game. I’m not the first person who’s challenged you regarding Howard and you don’t have to be a homer to have that opinion.

Wrong. It was personal because you targeted me in the post and made something up I didn’t say. What part of that don’t you get? There are plenty who agree with me re: Frank, his skill set, and the offense. Doesn’t mean I am right nor does it mean that you and a certain mod is right. I write what I believe just as you and others do. There are no answers this season because there are no other options so we can all beat on our drums and puff our chests out. With that being said let’s just officially ignore now.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I agree on Crisp being forced into a role that he isn't entirely suited for. Obviously, the plan was for Blake Harris and Daejon Davis to play the point for UW but both transferred after Romar got canned (I like Davis a lot btw - I think he'll be a major factor for Stanford in the future and really wish he had stayed on with Hop).

I do agree that UW has much more balanced scoring but I also think part of that is due to the difference in offensive philosophy between the teams. JB's style has always been to emphasize his best offensive players and minimize/hide his less skilled guys. Hop is definitely more comfortable with spreading the minutes and offense around. Different strokes for different folks.

I agree and prefer Hops way. I like the way he spreads the minutes because I feel like kids are more fresh. I don't buy into the whole we have timeouts and kids are young argument.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Hopkins is on his coaching honeymoon. Good for him. Lorenzo Romer only had 1 bad season all the time he was there, the rest of the time he did a lot of winning and made the NCAA quite often. So, it's not like Hopkins took over a total derelict program.

This is not true.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hop wasn’t treated that bad.
It was just he was shocked their were any murmurs.
Hop left because he was being step up to fail.
Look when Eddie Sutton left Oklahoma State he step up his son to replace him and didn’t leave the cupboard full. Sutton got 2 years and was out.

Gene Keady brought Matt Painter in as an his replacement and was given a swan song year. Painter took over a rebuild and now has stabilized Purdue. Painter survived those first bad years because the fans were patient and saw the change from Keady.
It worked. Hop could be like Painter.

Or he could be like Greg Gard at Wisconsin.
Jim Boeheim forced Mike to leave.
It wasn’t good to be pretty here.
Our recruiting next year took off after Hop left.

I’m just going by the bits and pieces posted on here. I agree with you that entire situation was bungled.

I won’t be happy if we hired Buzz. He’s done about the same job at VPI as Seth Greenberg did with more talent. I don’t think our fans realized how good we had it with Hop as our future coach. JB and Buzz have about the same record the past four years and that’s wthe th is on probation and Buzz pulling in top 20 classes. Who’s the on really underachieving?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Wrong. It was personal because you targeted me in the post and made something up I didn’t say. What part of that don’t you get? There are plenty who agree with me re: Frank, his skill set, and the offense. Doesn’t mean I am right nor does it mean that you and a certain mod is right. I write what I believe just as you and others do. There are no answers this season because there are no other options so we can all beat on our drums and puff our chests out. With that being said let’s just officially ignore now.

I targeted you because you’re the biggest Howard detractor on the board and it’s not close. If you want to ignore me that is fine, but I’m going to call out misguided opinions when I see it. Franks playing better than anyone imagined before the season and will be the pg next year. He cuts down his turnovers in about half and you’re going to have to admit he’s pretty good.

 

[Funk Doc]

Yeah we can do better than Buzz.
I just want the best coach available and not just an assistant on staff.

Hop was credited as a top 10 recruiting assistant when he got the HCIW designation.

I hope we do a national search and find the best coach.
JB/K/Roy’s are a dying breed. Loyalty is no longer what it was as money is 5x more than it used to be.

Yeah, I think the thing with Buzz, is that if you hear him talk, he seems like one of the best "people" in coaching. He's the type of coach I would want my own children to play for in a heartbeat. He's a good basketball mind, but more importantly, he's trying to turn these players into men! His results have been mixed at both Marquette and VTech, good years and some average years, but he does seem to keep a relatively competitive program. Would he be better in place like Cuse where he would have a slight advantage in recruiting?...maybe. I do love the guy, but like others have said, when it comes to this program, I'd expect the best...and settle for nothing less.